SoxAce Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 04:27 PM) Isn't that pretty much how everyone is viewing Adrian, as a 2 year player? I also dislike the term "rental" here. Would you call a FA on a 2-year deal a "rental?" Probably not. Cabrera is paid what he's worth, but it's pretty unreasonable to talk about the length of Cabrera's contract at those figures as a good thing for a team like the Sox. I don't expect the Sox to get any crazier than Peavy's deal, and if we do get Adrian, I'm not going to expect the Sox to lock him up for the long haul. That's pretty much why I called him what I did. The term "rental" mighta been a bit of a stretch, but you know where I'm comming from in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balfanman Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (BFirebird @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 04:52 PM) Even if this doesn't happen, I like the fact that KW sees the same bad offense that we see going into next year and is attempting to correct it. That is something to be optimistic about. I certainly hope that Kenney does something major to this offense before spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (whitesox901 @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 04:30 PM) I'm lazy, is there any more info about this, or it is speculation from that one sites information? Read the very first post and click the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 why would the angels want konerko? dh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 OPS+ has a bias towards home run hitters, the linear weights used to calculate OPS+ are out of whack. Just remember that when you're throwing it around in a debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 04:23 PM) I just hope Adrian does this consistently then I can see it and hopefully isn't a one year thing. Miggy has put up the numbers his entire career (also playing in the NL) and has gotten better considerably making the jump to the AL overall. If we net Adrian.. he'll already have an advantage that Miggy probably will never have.. hitting in a hitter's park. I just find it amazing that Miggy is damn near a full year younger and still isn't even gonna reach his prime yet till next season as far as hitters. Cabrera is in his prime now and just because he's entering the ages where most OTHER players break out doesn't mean that holds true for him. There are some very special hitters who reach their primes very early in their careers and he is one of them. Cabrera's best season so far was when he was 23. ARod's best season was in his first full season at the age of 20. All of his numbers are amazing, but you could definitely make the case that Pujol's best season came at 23. Cabrera is already fully developed and his man strength came quite a while ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyuen Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 04:19 PM) The truth is we dont know what AG will be like outside Petco. We can guess but not be sure. Hopefully we find out next year what he's like in a park like...say...US Cellular This is very true. I really doubt he will be a 50 hr guy as suggested earlier. I think the 50 hr seasons are going to be increasingly rare now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 05:36 PM) why would the angels want konerko? dh? Morales always struck me as similiar in both origin and skill-set to Dayan Viciedo. Like Dayan, Morales is a guy that was thought to be moved off position and into the outfield at some point. So, yeah PK can either play 1st or DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 04:41 PM) Morales always struck me as similiar in both origin and skill-set to Dayan Viciedo. Like Dayan, Morales is a guy that was thought to be moved off position and into the outfield at some point. So, yeah PK can either play 1st or DH. They are also looking to replace Vlad's bat in the lineup. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 04:31 PM) That's pretty much why I called him what I did. The term "rental" mighta been a bit of a stretch, but you know where I'm comming from in this. I know what you're saying, but as far as I can tell it's a good thing. I'd rather have Adrian for 2 years, $10.25M total than Cabrera for 6 years, $126M in total. Enormous difference in financial flexibility there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) For those just checking in, yea it's basically the soxnet post...and then I think there was a poster or two saying they had heard something about discussions ongoing. Thats about it. Edited November 16, 2009 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 09:46 PM) The key to me is that I have a theory that the Angels part is an expanded piece of the deal and that in general the majority of the deal could be done without the Angels getting involved. Although I think Kenny would like some improved flexibility and is trying to get creative so that he can clear payroll to fill some other holes while holding onto an extra prospect or two. My thoughts exactly. This move of PK's salary would allow the sox to still fill other holes. The angels also could use PK to replace Vlad, w/o being stuck for 3 yrs with a DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 God I hope this trade happens... I wonder if CQ and AGon know each other,they are both the same age and from the same area out here in San Diego. Get it done KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 10:19 PM) Konerko has almost no value at this point, he'll provide you decent production from the first base position (right around league average if you're lucky) while making nearly twice as much as he should. Konerko has no value? Whoa there now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 05:12 PM) Konerko has no value? Whoa there now He had a bounce back year, but after that '08 slump - you're pretty much at best going to dump that contract for middling prospects, or do some kind of lateral move where maybe you get a slightly better guy on a more problematic contract. Edited November 16, 2009 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 10:11 PM) That's ignorant as hell. Adrian Gonzalez had a fantastic season last year and the rest of the s***ty players on the Padres major league team carried them to a last place finish. The point I was making is that we are frothing at the mouth to give up our talent including PK for one guy thinking he is our savior. That's ignorant in my opinion. There hasn't been one mention that I read about what LAA is supposed to throw in this deal, which makes me believe if you can believe this three-way trade rumor is why they would even be involved? Is there any mention of this rumor on a LAA post site? Or for that amtter a SD site? Edited November 16, 2009 by elrockinMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Nov 17, 2009 -> 12:14 AM) He had a bounce back year, but after that '08 slump - you're pretty much at best going to dump that contract for middling prospects, or do some kind of lateral move where maybe you get a slightly better guy on a more problematic contract. I can't agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 05:18 PM) The point I was making is that we are frothing at the mouth to give up our talent including PK for one guy thinking he is our savior. That's ignorant in my opinion. There hasn't been one mention that I read about what LAA is supposed to throw in this deal, which makes me believe if you can believe this three-way trade rumor is why they would even be involved? Is there any mention of this rumor on a LAA post site? Or for that amtter a SD site? Who said this, exactly? He'd instantly become far and away our best hitter and defensive player and if you're able to move Konerko his modest ~$5M salary would give KW a good chunk of change with which to work when filling the other holes in the lineup. Savior? No. Would he make our team substantially better in more than one way? Most definitely. I'm curious as to how much you think a mediocre 34 year old 1B is worth in this economy especially when you're pumping up against your budgetary limits already? I'll give you a clue: it's no where near $12M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 03:22 PM) Who said this, exactly? He'd instantly become far and away our best hitter and defensive player He's a better defender than Rios, Buehrle? Yeah, he's a solid 1b, but it's not like we're picking up omar vizquel in his prime here, come on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 05:26 PM) He's a better defender than Rios, Buehrle? Yeah, he's a solid 1b, but it's not like we're picking up omar vizquel in his prime here, come on. If Rios is in CF (which he should be) then he needs to prove that he's elite out there, he did it for a couple hundred innings in Toronto but it's going to take a bit more than that. There's no doubt in my mind that he's an elite RF and far more valuable than a 1B. But yeah, Rios will likely be our best defender this year but right now Gonzalez is one of the best of the best at his position no matter how little you think of it. Buehrle? Really? You have a problem with the guy who will be expected to pick Teahen's errant throws out of the dirt but you mention the pitcher? A guy who had a grand total of 55 chances last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) The Angels are involved because KW would want to dump some salary, as well as make another team send a prospect (that means one more prospect saved by the Sox) Now whether it's real or not is a totally different matter than overestimating AGon. The rumor itself states this is preliminary discussion, which could be nothing or the beginning of something. We have to look at it like this -- the Padres will want 3 or 4 young ready now talents. If we can count Hudson and Flowers each as one, then the third one would likely have to be one of our pitchers.....or something from another organization. There's no way Padres would do this for a package similar to what they got for Peavy. Hudson and Flowers are higher ceiling prospects than Poreda/Clayton but the big difference is Peavy had a salary that required dumping. Edited November 16, 2009 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (beck72 @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 04:59 PM) My thoughts exactly. This move of PK's salary would allow the sox to still fill other holes. The angels also could use PK to replace Vlad, w/o being stuck for 3 yrs with a DH. I love the idea of moving PK's salary. He essentially has no value on the trade market. I could see a team desperate for a right-handed DH or 1B willing to take his contract off our hands. However, I'd have to assume they either have a top prospect who will be ready in 2011 or else there is a free agent they plan on targeting after the 2010 season. Otherwise, I don't see why a team wouldn't at least explore other options first. Obviously the financial flexibility would key to the White Sox as many people have mentioned. If the proposed deal went through, we'd still have holes at DH and LF/RF. What kind of free agents could the Sox target to fill these two holes? I'd be interested in hearing people's ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshot7 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I don't want to come across as overly critical, but this is such a ridiculous story. Teams have preliminary talks about players all the time - how is this newsworthy? Konerko would be a horrible trade for the Angels and they have no need of him. I know this is the offseason and we don't have a lot to talk about, but can we refrain from this silly trade talk? It comes off very Cub fan-like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (longshot7 @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 05:48 PM) I don't want to come across as overly critical, but this is such a ridiculous story. Teams have preliminary talks about players all the time - how is this newsworthy? Konerko would be a horrible trade for the Angels and they have no need of him. I know this is the offseason and we don't have a lot to talk about, but can we refrain from this silly trade talk? It comes off very Cub fan-like.What else is there to talk about? This also has a verified source. It's not just idle speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 QUOTE (longshot7 @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 05:48 PM) I don't want to come across as overly critical, but this is such a ridiculous story. Teams have preliminary talks about players all the time - how is this newsworthy? Konerko would be a horrible trade for the Angels and they have no need of him. I know this is the offseason and we don't have a lot to talk about, but can we refrain from this silly trade talk? It comes off very Cub fan-like. Indeed. Who talks about potential acquisitions in the offseason? Sooooo Cub fan-like. We might as well just shut down the board until March. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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