AGon discussion, et. al.

[Steve9347]

Anybody here see Gonzalez play when he was with Kane County? Jeez, he was awesome even then. He was probably only 19.

I still have a bat of his signed in my basement from those days.

[3E8]

Even if they couldn't get Gonzalez, if the Angels want to give the Sox a good prospect for Paulie and take his contract, I say, as much as I like Paulie, send him west. There are going to be bargains galore this winter.

Then why wouldn't the Angels keep their good prospect and take that $12M to spend on the bargains galore

[SockMe]

I haven't read through all 22 pages so how likely is this deal looking?

[iamshack]

I haven't read through all 22 pages so how likely is this deal looking?

No new information has come in since the original article was posted. Read it and you'll know just as much as everyone else.

[SockMe]

aight sweet

[Princess Dye]

I kind of have to advise that you read the 22 pages. There's a lot of cant miss stuff here.

[Quin]

Wait, if they want a SP, C, 2B, and CF, then we have that package in our own system. I hate giving up D2, but I'd much rather keep Paulie.

[elrockinMT]

He's a better defender than Rios, Buehrle?

 

Yeah, he's a solid 1b, but it's not like we're picking up omar vizquel in his prime here, come on.

 

 

Paul Konerko is not finished nor is he a mediocre fielder IMO. I think Kalapse is just being too criitical agin of one our guys. Heck by the time some get done evaluating our players you wonder how we managed not to finish 7th in a 6 team division.

[Quin]

Paul Konerko is not finished nor is he a mediocre fielder IMO. I think Kalapse is just being too criitical agin of one our guys. Heck by the time some get done evaluating our players you wonder how we managed not to finish 7th in a 6 team division.

 

Because we're not in a 6th team division?

 

Everyone complains about their players when they do poorly. Seriously, its the whole "grass is always greener" thing, because yes, AGon would be amazing to obtain, but the second he hits a slump we'd have people calling it a horrible deal.

[Princess Dye]

Konerko will be 34 on opening day. This last year he got back some of the magic, but you dont want to be left holding the bag when he reverts. If you're planning to use this pitching rotation to contend, you want to consider any upgrading at the 1B position since it's a power one.

 

I dont even want to look at 07 and 08.... lets see about 09: Konerko's numbers were good last year, but the standards for 1B should be high. On the team that won the world series, Konerko's OBP would rank where in the lineup? Ninth?

 

We cant necessarily have a lineup like those guys, but at the least we can get a high performing 1B one of these years, cant we?

Edited November 17, 2009 by Princess Dye

[SoxAce]

Cabrera is in his prime now and just because he's entering the ages where most OTHER players break out doesn't mean that holds true for him. There are some very special hitters who reach their primes very early in their careers and he is one of them.

 

Uh.. what?

 

meaning the guy who owns the site verified the source of the rumor, then posted it on Soxnet and soxtalk.

 

 

Dont get us wrong, nobody is saying that this deal is signed, sealed and delivered. However, the homework has been done before this report was posted, Soxtalk doesnt want to be known as a site that is just throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks and this is no exception.

 

:headbang

 

Pretty much spot on Kyyle. Net Adrian, sign Nick Johnson to DH (or see what Jason Bay is commanding, though I doubt we net him anyways, and I trust Herm who is one of the best in the business to help keep Johnson healthy) and maybe take a small flyer/minor league deal for Austin Kearns for RF (see if he finds it again, and is outstanding defensively, cause I highly doubt we can trade for Crawford as well IF this rumored deal goes to plan) maybe find one more good BP arm, (maybe KW trust a Nunez, Link, etc?) and I'd call it a hellova offseason. Our defense will be much improved. (barring how Teahan does at 3B.. could even be much, much improved)

Edited November 17, 2009 by SoxAce

[Kalapse]

Paul Konerko is not finished nor is he a mediocre fielder IMO. I think Kalapse is just being too criitical agin of one our guys. Heck by the time some get done evaluating our players you wonder how we managed not to finish 7th in a 6 team division.

Real simply. Aside from being a decent defender what ability does Paul Konerko possess that's above average for his position? It's real easy to just say that he's good, you have to be able to back that up with a little evidence. Where would you rank him amongst the other 1B in baseball taking into account all factors including age and salary? How much better is he than Adam LaRoche? He's probably looking at ~$6M-$8M a year in free agency and is Konerko's left handed twin.

 

I do think it's funny that you believe I'm over critical of players on a team that finished 3rd to last in runs per game in the American League and 4 games under .500 in what was probably the worst division in baseball.

[GREEDY]

I am having a hard time understanding how PK has value, when there are so many designated hitters available, for seemingly half of the 12 million Paul is owed?

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Uh.. what?

 

If you read my post you know exactly what I'm saying. Your prior post went on about how Miguel Cabrera has accomplished so much and yet he still hasn't even hit his prime. I read that as if you were saying that once in his prime years Cabrera should be expected to improve upon his current production. If that's what you were saying then I completely disagree with that. If not, I don't know what you would have talked about his prime for.

 

Pretty much spot on Kyyle. Net Adrian, sign Nick Johnson to DH (or see what Jason Bay is commanding, though I doubt we net him anyways, and I trust Herm who is one of the best in the business to help keep Johnson healthy) and maybe take a small flyer/minor league deal for Austin Kearns for RF (see if he finds it again, and is outstanding defensively, cause I highly doubt we can trade for Crawford as well IF this rumored deal goes to plan) maybe find one more good BP arm, (maybe KW trust a Nunez, Link, etc?) and I'd call it a hellova offseason. Our defense will be much improved. (barring how Teahan does at 3B.. could even be much, much improved)

 

Or maybe move Quentin to DH and give him a rest, then add some more defense. I really don't like this Nick Johnson idea at all but I realize I'm in the minority on this board. Kearns on a MiLB deal is a nice suggestion though, I like that one.

[3E8]

I am having a hard time understanding how PK has value, when there are so many designated hitters available, for seemingly half of the 12 million Paul is owed?

Negative value is still value

[chw42]

If Kenny gets this deal done, he is officially a god.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I really think GMJ could be involved in this and here's why:

 

GMJ wants to be traded and he wants to start. The Padres might be the only team in baseball that would start him now and use him as a regular. GMJ also has a full NTC (for now, becomes limited in 2010) and can block a deal that would send him + cash to another team where he'd be a 4th/5th OF. Why would GMJ agree to sit on the bench somewhere else, when he's already on a club that contends every year and plays in Southern California?

 

The Angels probably have to eat almost all of GMJ's salary to dump him. I could definitely see the Padres having interest at a price of say $2M per. He could start temporarily while they are developing their CF of the future and later on become a veteran presence and a 4th OF type who rotates around and gets regular playing time.

 

If the Sox are involving Konerko, then the Sox will have to eat salary or send another piece or two to move him IMO. Let's say the Sox agree to send $4M of Konerko's salary to the Angels. The Angels could then ship that $4M to SD, toss in another $3M in 2010, plus $10M in 2011.

 

By doing the above, the Sox would still clear $3.25M off the books in 2010 while getting Gonzalez, which could be added to what they currently have to spend to go after a better hitter on the market or through trade.

 

The Angels would swap GMJ with Konerko while only adding $4M to the payroll. This would be like them releasing GMJ (which has to be a consideration) and picking up Paulie as a FA for only $4M, which would be worth a good prospect. So the Angels send a good prospect to the Sox, which the Sox send to San Diego.

 

The Padres end up getting GMJ at $2M per from 2010-11, plus a prospect from the Angels, plus Sox prospects, for Adrian.

[SoxFan1]

Could you imagine the run-producing/OBP potential we'd have with Beckham, a healthy CQ, Gonzalez, and Nick Johnson!?!?

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Could you imagine the run-producing/OBP potential we'd have with Beckham, a healthy CQ, Gonzalez, and Nick Johnson!?!?

A healthy Nick Johnson at DH for a full season would be simply awesome in that lineup. The problem is, what if we have to offer 2/$12-14M or something like that? I really don't think he's going to come all that cheaply because of his age. He debuted in 2001 but has only had 5 seasons of 400+ PA, 2 of 500+ PA, 1 of 600+ PA. I know the Hermie = Coop argument is there, as well as the "he'll be healthier if he's a full-time DH" argument, but if he's going to get a good amount of guaranteed money, I don't want the Sox to be the one to give it to him.

 

If Thome at $4M on a 1-year deal or around that is an option, then I'd rather go with Thome, and if Thome gets hurt then at least we would have some flexibility to go after another hitter through the trade market. Or, if Matsui is asking for similar figures as Johnson, I'd much rather go after Matsui.

 

I also wonder if a Linebrink-for-Burrell deal is a possibility. Burrell had a terrible season last year and the Rays are looking to move him. We'd get out of Linebrink's 2011 option that way and would only be increasing our payroll by $4M in 2010 with that deal. But the Sox would have to think they could get Burrell back on track, and the Rays would have to think they could get Linebrink back on track.

[SoxAce]

If you read my post you know exactly what I'm saying. Your prior post went on about how Miguel Cabrera has accomplished so much and yet he still hasn't even hit his prime. I read that as if you were saying that once in his prime years Cabrera should be expected to improve upon his current production. If that's what you were saying then I completely disagree with that. If not, I don't know what you would have talked about his prime for.

 

 

No, no, no I read it.. I just couldn't believe what you said it mostly. I am entirely too lazy tonight though to actually reply back to that however so your off the hook.

 

 

Could you imagine the run-producing/OBP potential we'd have with Beckham, a healthy CQ, Gonzalez, and Nick Johnson!?!?

 

It would fix our scoring runs problem and overall offensive production thats for sure. All four of those guys have the "potential" to put up an OBP or .370 or higher. All of those guys (depends on Beckham as the 2 spot might not net as many as more than likely Ozzie will leave him there) and even an Alex Rios will drool of the RBI chances they will net.

[Rowand44]

I also wonder if a Linebrink-for-Burrell deal is a possibility. Burrell had a terrible season last year and the Rays are looking to move him. We'd get out of Linebrink's 2011 option that way and would only be increasing our payroll by $4M in 2010 with that deal. But the Sox would have to think they could get Burrell back on track, and the Rays would have to think they could get Linebrink back on track.

I like the outside the box thinking on that one. That would have never crossed my mind but that's an interesting idea. Does Pat's contract end at the end of this season?

 

 

[SoxAce]

I like the outside the box thinking on that one. That would have never crossed my mind but that's an interesting idea. Does Pat's contract end at the end of this season?

 

Yes it was a 2 year/16 mil deal, and not a bad idea at all KHP. I just hope that he doesn't have the "Edgar Renteria" syndrome.. you know.. hit well in the NL, suck in the AL. Then again.. Edgar went back to the NL and sucked again (though he didn't do that 4 years ago).. so who knows.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

No, no, no I read it.. I just couldn't believe what you said it mostly. I am entirely too lazy tonight though to actually reply back to that however so your off the hook.

 

I don't understand, but I'm glad I'm off the hook (for now).

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Yes it was a 2 year/16 mil deal, and not a bad idea at all KHP. I just hope that he doesn't have the "Edgar Renteria" syndrome.. you know.. hit well in the NL, suck in the AL. Then again.. Edgar went back to the NL and sucked again (though he didn't do that 4 years ago).. so who knows.

I think he had some injury issues, not sure. But his 2009 season was horrific. Either way, that kind of deal couldn't hurt us too much if it went through since we'd be exchanging a $10.5M bad contract for a $9M bad contract. Both players would be non-tendered or bought out if those were options.

[WCSox]

how is 18 mil unrealistic for him?

 

It's perfectly reasonable until he wants a 7- or 8-year deal at that rate. If the Yankees and Red Sox aren't in the market to pony up $150+M for a slugger, who is going to give Gonzalez that kind of money? The only remaining teams with anywhere near that spending power are the Mets, Angels, and maybe the Dodgers. Given the economy and the lack of teams that would be willing and able to wage a nine-figure bidding war, I don't see him getting anywhere near what Tex got last winter (unless the Red Sox pass on re-signing Bay this off-season).