AGon discussion, et. al.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

It's perfectly reasonable until he wants a 7- or 8-year deal at that rate. If the Yankees and Red Sox aren't in the market to pony up $150+M for a slugger, who is going to give Gonzalez that kind of money? The only remaining teams with anywhere near that spending power are the Mets, Angels, and maybe the Dodgers. Given the economy and the lack of teams that would be willing and able to wage a nine-figure bidding war, I don't see him getting anywhere near what Tex got last winter (unless the Red Sox pass on re-signing Bay this off-season).

We're also talking about the 2011-12 offseason here, and IMO that's too far away to really speculate on. If some dude came on this board around this time in 2005 and stated that the Tigers would give an 8 year, $152M contract to Miguel Cabrera in 2 years, I doubt anyone here would have believed him. Two years from now the Baltimore Orioles could look like the next juggernaut for all we know.

[chisoxfan09]

http://www.yardbarker.com/author/article_external/1577618

 

Someone close to the PADS says no deal.

 

Sorry link got squashed.

Edited November 17, 2009 by chisoxfan09

[ThunderBolt]

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2009/...lex-issues.html

 

Did new GM Hoyer work for the Padres under Kevin Towers?

Nope, under Epstein in Boston. The Padres had a four man brain trust in charge of their organization. Sandy Alderson, Kevin Towers, Paul Depodesta, and Grady Fuston. The only one remaining now is Depo.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Great piece from Gonzalez. Clearly these are the interesting aspects of the trade and it is important that we indicate we only are verifying the prelim discussions.

 

Gonzalez breaks out the reasons the deal wouldn't happen, but he also points out the Padres interest in a SP, CF, C, and 2B. The Sox have 3 prospects that fill 3 of those needs and they happen to be our top 3 prospects.

 

Bottom line, there is a lot of stuff in our system that would interest the Padres. The question is can the Sox take the risk and will they completely take a shot on Gonzalez putting them over the top for the next two years, because after that, it is highly unlikely the Sox brass would spend the necessary money to keep Gonzalez on the south-side.

 

If KW is not damn near close to 100% sure he can lock Gonzalez up well past 2011, then I want no part of this. I'm sorry. Our farm is right back where it was in 2006 (dreadful and downright shameful) if we're able to trade for Gonzalez. I learned a long time ago never to get attached to any White Sox prospect as long as KW is GM. Because it's pretty much a lock they'll be traded. But if you're going to keep trading prospect after prospect after prospect (and I mean legitimate prospects), you better be sure the guy you're getting is going to be around for a number of years.

[Quin]

If KW is not damn near close to 100% sure he can lock Gonzalez up well past 2011, then I want no part of this. I'm sorry. Our farm is right back where it was in 2006 (dreadful and downright shameful) if we're able to trade for Gonzalez. I learned a long time ago never to get attached to any White Sox prospect as long as KW is GM. Because it's pretty much a lock they'll be traded. But if you're going to keep trading prospect after prospect after prospect (and I mean legitimate prospects), you better be sure the guy you're getting is going to be around for a number of years.

 

Exactly, if locking up AGon was out of the question, then I still go after him, but definitely don't gut the farm.

[kapkomet]

http://www.yardbarker.com/author/art...ternal/1577618

 

Someone close to the PADS says no deal.

Dead link...

[iamshack]

Dead link...

Yardbarker

[Jordan4life_2007]

Exactly, if locking up AGon was out of the question, then I still go after him, but definitely don't gut the farm.

 

The Padres won't (if they're smart) give two s***s if the Sox or any other team interested in Gonzalez is able to sign him to an extension. If they're giving up a player of that caliber on his current contract, which is just stupidly/insanely a bargain, they're going to demand a killing. As they should. I have no problem trading potential for proven. And that's a good thing. Otherwise I'd have to find another team to root for. But this philosophy we've adopted during the KW era (I.E. trading any prospect of value whenever you get the chance) has netted us a whopping two playoff births in 9 years. Yes, I know how 2005 ended. So please don't remind me (and when I say don't remind me I mean people in general. Not you specifically, Quinarvy). But 2/9, well, sucks. There's no way around it. We're not competing with the likes of Boston/NY every year. In fact, the only year the central has been regarded as the best division in baseball was 2006. And I know a pretty good percentage of the prospects we've dealt over the years hasn't really come back to haunt us. But the more and more you keep dealing these guys whenever they hit or almost hit peak value, the odds of some of these guys coming back to haunt us increases. If we had the Yankees, Mets or Red Sox's resources, I wouldn't really worry about it. Again, if we can sign Gonzalez past 2011, give them what it takes (although I'll definitely hate seeing Vicedo go).

 

 

Edited November 17, 2009 by Jordan4life

[greg775]

I can't talk for Kalapse...but given his salary, age, position and stats comparable to other players at that salary and position, Konerko has little to no value.

 

Is Paulie really this bad a player compared to others at his position? I guess baseball is full of stud first baseman cause Paulie had a f***ing great year offensively. He also is a damn fine fielder. I realize he's aging. A lot of baseball teams don't mind paying a decent salary. I would think whomever gets Paulie will be a happy camper.

Edited November 17, 2009 by greg775

[Jordan4life_2007]

Is Paulie really this bad a player compared to others at his position? I guess baseball is full of stud first baseman cause Paulie had a f***ing great year offensively. He also is a damn fine fielder. I realize he's aging. A lot of baseball teams don't mind paying a decent salary. I would think whomever gets Paulie will be a happy camper.

 

He's far from a bad player. But we've seen his peak (2004-2006). He's no longer capable of putting up those kinds of numbers. And at his age, you figure that he's a pretty sure bet to only get worse from this point. He's not worth his current contract. And it's true, PK is probably not even a top 15 player at his position.

[Jordan4life_2007]

No he didn't.

 

In terms of 1B that had over 425 PA's, 28 players qualified.

 

Konerko ranks

 

17th in BA

22 in OBP

17th in SLG

20th in OPS

 

14th in Hits

18th in 2B

13th in HR

16th in RBI

 

He is making 12 million dollars in a bad economy, will be 34 when the season starts, and may soon overtake Benji as the slowest player in the major leagues.

 

That is as simple as a breakdown as you can get.

 

So make that he's not even a top 20 player at his position. PK at not a dollar more than half of what he's currently making would be just fine. 12? No.

Edited November 17, 2009 by Jordan4life

[joeynach]

He's far from a bad player. But we've seen his peak (2004-2006). He's no longer capable of putting up those kinds of numbers. And at his age, you figure that he's a pretty sure bet to only get worse from this point. He's not worth his current contract. And it's true, PK is probably not even a top 15 player at his position.

 

Konerko is a nice hitter to have...hes good for .275/30/90 at this point in his career. He is no longer a 40 HR and 110+ RBI threat.

[balfanman]

Konerko is a nice hitter to have...hes good for .275/30/90 at this point in his career. He is no longer a 40 HR and 110+ RBI threat.

 

Yes, but who is?

 

I'm not a huge Konerko fan either and I have more of an issue with his apparent leadership skills than anything else, so I won't cry too many tears if he's dealt. However, in the post steroid era there are not too many 40 hr, 110 rbi people around.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Konerko is a nice hitter to have...hes good for .275/30/90 at this point in his career. He is no longer a 40 HR and 110+ RBI threat.

 

The last 3 years he's averaged .260/27/80. So not too far off from your numbers. But his numbers figure to only decline as he gets older (they've already declined considerably since his 3 year peak of 2004-2006). Point is he's not worth 12 million as he's a third or fourth tier at best 1B. You're obviously not going to give him away. But if it makes sense, I'd have no problem at all if he's dealt.

Edited November 17, 2009 by Jordan4life

[Jordan4life_2007]

Yes, but who is?

 

I'm not a huge Konerko fan either and I have more of an issue with his apparent leadership skills than anything else, so I won't cry too many tears if he's dealt. However, in the post steroid era there are not too many 40 hr, 110 rbi people around.

 

Howard, Pujols, Morneau, Gonzales, Pujols, Cabrera, Fielder, Pena, Dunn, Teixeira. Those guys are all pretty much locks to match or come close to matching 40/110. Lance Berkman, although he had a down year in the HR/RBI department in 2009, is capable. Then you've got young studs like Kendry Morales and Joey Votto who are more than capable of at least coming close. I'd take all the guys I just named over PK in two shakes of a lambs tail. And I'm not hating on PK. He is what he is. But they're plenty who play his position that are considerably better.

Edited November 17, 2009 by Jordan4life

[NorthSideSox72]

http://www.yardbarker.com/author/article_external/1577618

 

Someone close to the PADS says no deal.

 

Sorry link got squashed.

Link is live again. This Fletcher fellow is a FanHouse writer - in other words, a blogger or poster just like everyone else here. So, while he may be right, I wouldn't put any more stake in it than anything else we've seen or read.

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

http://www.yardbarker.com/author/article_external/1577618

 

Someone close to the PADS says no deal.

"the team has had 'no such discussions'" yet AG was oddly left out of their most recent publications. Yea, AG will be gone by opening day.

[balfanman]

Howard, Pujols, Morneau, Gonzales, Pujols, Cabrera, Fielder, Pena, Dunn, Teixeira. Those guys are all pretty much locks to match or come close to matching 40/110. Lance Berkman, although he had a down year in the HR/RBI department in 2009, is capable. Then you've got young studs like Kendry Morales and Joey Votto who are more than capable of at least coming close. I'd take all the guys I just named over PK in two shakes of a lambs tail. And I'm not hating on PK. He is what he is. But they're plenty who play his position that are considerably better.

 

The problem is getting one of those guys. That's about one 40 HR, 110 RBI man for every 3 teams.

 

This is why I for one would love to get Gonzales here, even if we have to give up all of our top 5 prospects. What are the odds that one of Danks 2, Morell, Flowers, etc., ever turn into a 40 HR, 110 RBI hitter? Even if one of them does it will be at least 3 - 4 years down the road and by then our starting staff will be gone. We need to do this now if it is possible.

[SoxPride56]

Sounds like Joe Cowley is jealous that people on this site have sources that are better than his. Here are his last few tweets:

 

Sun-Times first reported the Sox were interested in Adrian Gonzalez back on Oct. 6, and was informed by the club couldn’t happen.

 

Then some site called SoxNet.net – written in the basement of a trekkie turned blogger – jumps n the pile late with no sources.

 

The sad part? Poor Gonzo is told by his dictator SE to give validity to a blog on their own website like it’s to be taken seriously.

 

[southsider2k5]

Sounds like Joe is speaking from experience. Tell his mom that we all said hi!

[kgelso]

You guys made ESPN Insider:

 

"The Red Sox may not be only team interested in Adrian Gonzalez.

 

The latest comes from SoxNet.net, which says the Chicago White Sox have had preliminary discussions with the Angels and Padres on a potential three-way deal which would involve Gonzalez, Paul Konerko and Angel and White Sox prospects.

 

The deal would be built on the Sox sending Konerko and prospects in-return for Adrian Gonzalez. The Angels would receive Konerko with the Padres receiving a combination of Sox and Angel prospects.

 

Up until now, the Gonzalez talk has centered on the Boston Red Sox because of the link between new Padres general manager Jed Hoyer and his former boss, Boston's Theo Epstein. In the Boston Globe Sunday, Chad Finn wrote that the Sox should do "whatever it takes" to land A-Gon.

 

Bill Center of the Union-Tribune wrote last week that there are signs that a deal for Gonzalez will take place "sooner rather than later." Gonzalez was not part of a promotional brochure sent to prospective season ticket holders while the club has not contacted his agent, John Boggs, about a long-term deal."

[quickman]

I am sure nothing will be done soon if this is a three way deal.

 

why in the world would the angels want Konerko? I cannot see this happening.They do not need him plus they have a better first baseman right now. Makes no sense.

[SoxPride56]

Sounds like Joe is speaking from experience. Tell his mom that we all said hi!

[Big Daddy Kool]

He's either Jealous or Spot-on.

 

Sounds like Joe Cowley is jealous that people on this site have sources that are better than his. Here are his last few tweets:

 

Sun-Times first reported the Sox were interested in Adrian Gonzalez back on Oct. 6, and was informed by the club couldn’t happen.

 

Then some site called SoxNet.net – written in the basement of a trekkie turned blogger – jumps n the pile late with no sources.

 

The sad part? Poor Gonzo is told by his dictator SE to give validity to a blog on their own website like it’s to be taken seriously.

 

[GREEDY]

Konerko is a nice hitter to have...

 

I don't want to pick on you but:

 

That is Cub fan talk!

 

A declining/slow/white/fan favorite is a "nice player"....

 

For a guy that can only play 1B and DH, Paul is not "nice"; he is below average and will either remain steady or decline, there is little to no chance for improvement.