AGon discussion, et. al.

[Pants Rowland]

WOW. Did I really do that? That's awesome.

 

Like I said, you have to be VERY careful with what you write.

 

I guess you use a Dvorak keyboard, right?

[iamshack]

You are right, he could've done that. But the difficulty in doing that is that there are SO many rumor blogs out there that it is almost impossible to fact check every single one of them every time there is a report of a potential trade. He may have done that if SoxNet were already widely regarded as a credible source for White Sox information.

 

Now, don't take that the wrong way. I'm NOT saying that SexNet is unreliable. What I'm saying is that the majority of media consumers don't know if it is or not, and most have probably not even heard of the site before. I mean, I do because it's my job to try and know what's out there. But I would argue that most casual fans of the team are not familiar with this site. SoxNet may be right every time, but for all most people know, it could just be another rumor blog. You know what I mean?

 

After a while, SoxNet may develop a reputation that would force mainstream outlets to check into everything the blog reports. At which point, SoxNet would essentially become mainstream.

 

No, I hear what you're saying. And to be honest with you, as NSS mentioned earlier (and now I see Knight has reiterated), we should have made it clearer that Soxnet is part of Soxtalk.com. As you stated, you've been lurking here for some time. My guess is Joe has been here a few times as well. And if he hasn't, well, he probably should start.

 

To most of us, at least from what I have read, this isn't about having the information dismissed by Joe. All sorts of web media have now dismissed the information. More importantly, it was simply his lack of awareness of what goes on here or what the site is.

 

If my job was to cover something as complex as professional baseball, one team in particular, and there were all these people online constantly discussing the issues and arguing the statistics, and hashing out the economics over and over again, you'd better believe it I would be reading this stuff. As you mentioned, you do.

Edited November 19, 2009 by iamshack

[wsgdf_2]

Cowley probably does come here and read.

 

FWIW - when I saw the tweets you guys posted and heard about his Score interview I pretty much figured he was partially reacting to what's been posted about him here for the past couple of years.

 

Frankly, I never really got what all the over the top criticism was about.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bigruss]

Cowley probably does come here and read.

 

FWIW - when I saw the tweets you guys posted and heard about his Score interview I pretty much figured he was partially reacting to what's been posted about him here for the past couple of years.

 

Frankly, I never really got what all the over the top criticism was about.

Just look at the lack of professionalism he showed in his email replies.

[YonderLaroche]

Just look at the lack of professionalism he showed in his email replies.

 

I don't think he cares... he rips on sox players all the time.

[southsider2k5]

Cowley probably does come here and read.

 

FWIW - when I saw the tweets you guys posted and heard about his Score interview I pretty much figured he was partially reacting to what's been posted about him here for the past couple of years.

 

Frankly, I never really got what all the over the top criticism was about.

Like I said earlier. Look how Mark Gonzales from the Trib handled things, and look how Cowley did.

[nickofypres]

I think Wite just means he's our 4th best pitcher. Anyways, to start the season it'll probably be: Buehrle, Peavy, Danks, Floyd, Garcia in that order anyways.

 

I think so too, I think Buehrles will always be the opening day starter, plus we can do L-R-L-R and we won't have to start Buehrle and Danks back to back (which is something Oz doesn't wanna do)

[Soxbadger]

Ranger,

 

I think most reasonable people believe that reliable established news media, whether it be print, radio or television have more credible rumors or stories. The problem I have with this situation was with the unnecessary attacks against people who have nothing but the best intentions in terms of giving Sox fans information.

 

I would like to thank you for taking the time to post on this forum.

[southsider2k5]

Just for general reference purposes if there are any lurkers...

 

Soxtalk/FutureSox/Soxnet doesn't make up stories or post anything that hasn't been verified by an outside source.

 

I've been posting here for almost 6 years and on the staff here for nearly 4 and outside of a poster bringing in speculation on occasion, this site has been very cautious about what is posted when it comes to "breaking news."

 

And really Soxnet isn't "new". There were some issues that made it disappear for a while, but essentially it has been getting stuff right since at least 2002, which is more than I can say for some...

[Princess Dye]

And really Soxnet isn't "new". There were some issues that made it disappear for a while, but essentially it has been getting stuff right since at least 2002, which is more than I can say for some...

 

Has lasted perhaps four times as long as Monsters In the Morning?

 

Though that may be a little more costly to produce

Edited November 19, 2009 by Princess Dye

[Ranger]

No, I hear what you're saying. And to be honest with you, as NSS mentioned earlier (and now I see Knight has reiterated), we should have made it clearer that Soxnet is part of Soxtalk.com. As you stated, you've been lurking here for some time. My guess is Joe has been here a few times as well. And if he hasn't, well, he probably should start.

 

To most of us, at least from what I have read, this isn't about having the information dismissed by Joe. All sorts of web media have now dismissed the information. More importantly, it was simply his lack of awareness of what goes on here or what the site is.

 

If my job was to cover something as complex as professional baseball, one team in particular, and there were all these people online constantly discussing the issues and arguing the statistics, and hashing out the economics over and over again, you'd better believe it I would be reading this stuff. As you mentioned, you do.

 

You know, I'm not sure if Joe or anyone else in the media lurks here. Personally, I appreciate message boards and a lot of times I find them sometimes entertaining, sometimes helpful. What, I think, some people don't like about message boards is how they can sometimes devolve into groupthink and "best insult" contests. I don't really care for that. I don't care for negativity, but I do love real, actual debate.

 

Negativity is probably the one thing about message boards that can rub me the wrong way. Some of you know that I sometimes get the "company man" tag thrown at me on occasion (often on message boards), but it really isn't true. For those that truly listen to what I say during the shows, I'm not a pessimist, but I'm also really not an optimist. I'm just simply not a negative person. I don't think everything is always going to end up as bad as it could possibly end up, and I don't think that everything that can go wrong always will go wrong. I think sometimes negativity runs rampant on message boards. That's usually because of the passion posters have for their teams. This is true pretty much everywhere.

 

This isn't always true, but sometimes it is.

 

 

Ranger,

 

I think most reasonable people believe that reliable established news media, whether it be print, radio or television have more credible rumors or stories. The problem I have with this situation was with the unnecessary attacks against people who have nothing but the best intentions in terms of giving Sox fans information.

 

I would like to thank you for taking the time to post on this forum.

 

 

I love having level-headed discussion about the team and I've been participating over at WSI for a while (sorry, Mike!). I'll be back here as often as I can. I don't doubt that the contributors here have good intentions. Again, I think it's a matter of being careful in how rumors are presented because, as you can see, s***storms can follow.

[iamshack]

Negativity can definitely get the best of discussions on message boards, especially on White Sox message boards. It's been fairly well-chronicled that White Sox fans are a pretty fickle bunch, so we've definitely seen that here. In fact, one of our better posters is actually nicknamed Mr. Pessimism or something to that effect.

 

As for the groupthink concept, you're right on there as well. Often times, one or more of the more established posters goes one way with something and a big part of the group will follow. Sometimes there will even be two or three separate "camps" that an issue gets divided amongst. Then there are some guys who I think enjoy playing the role of Devil's Advocate, and will argue a point just to present a different perspective.

 

We do have a lot of good debate here though. Some days are better than others, but as far as Chicago team sports goes, this is the best place I have seen for really good discussion.

 

I've been mentioning this for the last several days now in different places, but I'll write it again here. There is some really solid stuff in the older Adrian Gonzalez thread that is amongst the best baseball debate I have seen here thus far this offseason.

 

One more thing about negativity....you deal with so much of it doing the postgame shows that I'm sure you're pretty tired of it by the time you turn on your computer and come here...So I don't blame you for that.

Edited November 19, 2009 by iamshack

[southsideirish71]

Some of you know that I sometimes get the "company man" tag thrown at me on occasion (often on message boards), but it really isn't true.

 

I would have to say. This is probably the first year that I have enjoyed your post game show. Probably the first year we have seen more of your personality than just the cut and dry guy. I was a big fan of Wills. He seemed like one of us, one of the fans. Just like you deal with, he had his group of crazy conspiracy theorist that would call the show. Hell that was before 2005. You can imagine those calls. Your first year you seemed like a carbon copy of the guy you replaced that did the post game when the show was on AM1000. Similar voice, similar tone, etc. Over the years you have gotten better at your craft and have loosened up a bit. This year you seemed to have a lot more leeway with being able to take a stand and stick up for points you believe in. Thats when you became a radio show that I could listen to. The more you keep it real, the more the company man thing will go away on its own.

 

 

[qwerty]

Negativity can definitely get the best of discussions on message boards, especially on White Sox message boards. It's been fairly well-chronicled that White Sox fans are a pretty fickle bunch, so we've definitely seen that here. In fact, one of our better posters is actually nicknamed Mr. Pessimism or something to that effect.

 

As for the groupthink concept, you're right on there as well. Often times, one or more of the more established posters goes one way with something and a big part of the group will follow. Sometimes there will even be two or three separate "camps" that an issue gets divided amongst. Then there are some guys who I think enjoy playing the role of Devil's Advocate, and will argue a point just to present a different perspective.

 

We do have a lot of good debate here though. Some days are better than others, but as far as Chicago team sports goes, this is the best place I have seen for really good discussion.

 

I've been mentioning this for the last several days now in different places, but I'll write it again here. There is some really solid stuff in the older Adrian Gonzalez thread that is amongst the best baseball debate I have seen here thus far this offseason.

 

One more thing about negativity....you deal with so much of it doing the postgame shows that I'm sure you're pretty tired of it by the time you turn on your computer and come here...So I don't blame you for that.

 

Truly it should be like that every day, but even better. We could do without the little old lady bickering (snark like comments) that goes on, which is the first thing someone resorts to when they don't know what else to say. Such a thing is truly what keeps me away for extended periods of time. I wish i was posting 20 plus times a day, rather than the 20 per month, if that. I always hope for the best, so maybe the tides shall turn this off-season.

 

 

[iamshack]

Truly it should be like that every day, but even better. We could do without the little old lady bickering (snark like comments) that goes on, which is the first thing someone resorts to when they don't know what else to say. Such a thing is truly what keeps me away for extended periods of time. I wish i was posting 20 plus times a day, rather than the 20 per month, if that. I always hope for the best, so maybe the tides shall turn this off-season.

Says the guy who's avatar is giving me the bird right now...

 

Actually, I think you're one of our best posters Qwerty. Wish you did post more...

[witesoxfan]

Truly it should be like that every day, but even better. We could do without the little old lady bickering (snark like comments) that goes on, which is the first thing someone resorts to when they don't know what else to say. Such a thing is truly what keeps me away for extended periods of time. I wish i was posting 20 plus times a day, rather than the 20 per month, if that. I always hope for the best, so maybe the tides shall turn this off-season.

 

I was going to throw in a snarky, cheap comment in here just for fun, but I can't even do it. This thread is too money right now.

[qwerty]

Says the guy who's avatar is giving me the bird right now...

 

Actually, I think you're one of our best posters Qwerty. Wish you did post more...

 

I can be as blunt and vulgar as they come, but there is a time and a place for that. The best discussion here, all around for that matter, is in the chat room. It's too bad the chat crew members are looked down upon, because honestly, people are missing out. It can simply be a blast at times.

[southsideirish71]

I can be as blunt and vulgar as they come, but there is a time and a place for that. The best discussion here, all around for that matter, is in the chat room. It's too bad the chat crew members are looked down upon, because honestly, people are missing out. It can simply be a blast at times.

 

Sometimes though in chat. You might need to cover your eyes....

 

Edited November 19, 2009 by southsideirish71

[Kalapse]

I would have to say. This is probably the first year that I have enjoyed your post game show. Probably the first year we have seen more of your personality than just the cut and dry guy. I was a big fan of Wills. He seemed like one of us, one of the fans. Just like you deal with, he had his group of crazy conspiracy theorist that would call the show. Hell that was before 2005. You can imagine those calls. Your first year you seemed like a carbon copy of the guy you replaced that did the post game when the show was on AM1000. Similar voice, similar tone, etc. Over the years you have gotten better at your craft and have loosened up a bit. This year you seemed to have a lot more leeway with being able to take a stand and stick up for points you believe in. Thats when you became a radio show that I could listen to. The more you keep it real, the more the company man thing will go away on its own.

Hater.

[Kalapse]

I can be as blunt and vulgar as they come, but there is a time and a place for that. The best discussion here, all around for that matter, is in the chat room. It's too bad the chat crew members are looked down upon, because honestly, people are missing out. It can simply be a blast at times.

That's only if I'm around. There's really no point to the chat without me.

[SoxAce]

That's only if I'm around. There's really no point to the chat without me.

 

Nah.. we'd get by. Then again.. I haven't been an active member the last couple of years like the original clan/prime (man I still miss Nuke, hi8is, etc..) days back in 2004-05 like I used to be so I shouldn't talk.

 

OT: Speaking of which (old times), maybe I should bring back the Ben Davis fan club. I still got the PM's of the original members for a good laugh. And yes qwerty, tmar, supersteve, willie etc.. were club members back then. Good competition with aboz and the Buehrle fan club actually.

Edited November 19, 2009 by SoxAce

[GreatScott82]

Nah.. we'd get by. Then again.. I haven't been an active member the last couple of years like the original clan/prime (man I still miss Nuke, hi8is, etc..) days back in 2004-05 like I used to be so I shouldn't talk.

 

OT: Speaking of which (old times), maybe I should bring back the Ben Davis fan club. I still got the PM's of the original members for a good laugh. And yes qwerty, tmar, supersteve, willie etc.. were club members back then. Good competition with aboz and the Buehrle fan club actually.

I'm still in that Buerhle fan club. . look under my name

[DBAHO]

Precisely, and that's not a knock against Floyd, because Floyd is damn fine pitcher himself.

Just on Gavin, it'd be nice if he could actually pitch in more home games this season, and the Sox try to re-work the rotation with off - days, double - headers etc. to try and get him as many starts as possible, because his ERA has been so much better pitching at the Cell than it has in away games over the past 2 seasons. He pitched 13 out of 30 games at home this season for example, so the Sox could potentially pinch an extra couple of games if he's as effective at home for 2010.

 

Never thought we'd say that about a pitcher at the Cell though a few seasons ago.

[bmags]

I probably missed the party, but whatever, my internet sucks.

 

Anyway, I think the problem with this story is that the soxtalk message board is so intuned that we understood the purpose of the story. After the original, "I came" messages that rightfully were posted (I participated), everyone knew a three way deal for Adrian Gonzalez would not get hammered out in a couple days. It would take time, it could fall apart, but for us this was what was interesting, and why I appreciated the story, and have a strong negative impression towards Cowley.

 

1. We have a GM that we are consistently unaware what will happen. We have an idea what our budget is (thanks to Kalapse, who posts an absolutely vital budget resource I've yet to find anywhere else) and that we're close to it.

2. We, as fans, know that we need a bat in this lineup. As presently constructed, we are awful on offense.

3. We know we finally have some legitimately attractive pieces to trade. We aren't even fooling ourselves with Broadway +Fields + crap for CABRERA!!!), Hudson is a legit prospect as is Flowers, J. Danks, etc.

4. We want to know if KW feels the same way.

 

Regardless of the fact that this specific trade likely won't come to fruition, it gives us, the die hard, will post every day on the same topic fans, we learned a lot from this rumor, I'd say.

 

1. KW is more than likely looking to heavily upgrade our 1b/Dh/RF

2. Moving Konerko for financial flexibility is being explored

3. We are very interested in Adrian Gonzalez

4. By seeking a third team, we are looking for another team to share the burden of prospects, or help put together a better package.

 

Now, the common fan might just hear this, disregard the semantics and say OMG GONZALEZ, or who is Adrian Gonzalez, and a busy reporter might just say "no way it happens, don't need to report", or, they already have Kendry, etc. Blah blah, ignoring DH. Whatever. And maybe that's where this ran into trouble.

 

But for me, and a lot of other fans on this sight, this provided legitimate insight into the offseason, irregardless if it died quickly. This, obviously would be a complicated deal EASILY held up by money. But I don't think the GMJ speculations would be that far off in this hypothetical. I mean, Angels parting with a bad contract, getting a 1 yr deal DH that isn't a great contract but better than GMJs, it makes sense why they were approached in this deal.

 

But I understand Cowley is too busy beating his chest. I realize he's in a competitive industry and has one of about 50 jobs. But, his response was ridiculous, and if he honestly thinks marginalizing a sizeable potential audience for him is a good idea, I won't have any problem with schadenfreude when the ST goes bankrupt and he's watching Star Trek in his parents basement blogging about the White Sox.

 

In fact, I'll be the first to say Ha! Ha!

[DBAHO]

I probably missed the party, but whatever, my internet sucks.

 

Anyway, I think the problem with this story is that the soxtalk message board is so intuned that we understood the purpose of the story. After the original, "I came" messages that rightfully were posted (I participated), everyone knew a three way deal for Adrian Gonzalez would not get hammered out in a couple days. It would take time, it could fall apart, but for us this was what was interesting, and why I appreciated the story, and have a strong negative impression towards Cowley.

 

1. We have a GM that we are consistently unaware what will happen. We have an idea what our budget is (thanks to Kalapse, who posts an absolutely vital budget resource I've yet to find anywhere else) and that we're close to it.

2. We, as fans, know that we need a bat in this lineup. As presently constructed, we are awful on offense.

3. We know we finally have some legitimately attractive pieces to trade. We aren't even fooling ourselves with Broadway +Fields + crap for CABRERA!!!), Hudson is a legit prospect as is Flowers, J. Danks, etc.

4. We want to know if KW feels the same way.

 

Regardless of the fact that this specific trade likely won't come to fruition, it gives us, the die hard, will post every day on the same topic fans, we learned a lot from this rumor, I'd say.

 

1. KW is more than likely looking to heavily upgrade our 1b/Dh/RF

2. Moving Konerko for financial flexibility is being explored

3. We are very interested in Adrian Gonzalez

4. By seeking a third team, we are looking for another team to share the burden of prospects, or help put together a better package.

 

Now, the common fan might just hear this, disregard the semantics and say OMG GONZALEZ, or who is Adrian Gonzalez, and a busy reporter might just say "no way it happens, don't need to report", or, they already have Kendry, etc. Blah blah, ignoring DH. Whatever. And maybe that's where this ran into trouble.

 

But for me, and a lot of other fans on this sight, this provided legitimate insight into the offseason, irregardless if it died quickly. This, obviously would be a complicated deal EASILY held up by money. But I don't think the GMJ speculations would be that far off in this hypothetical. I mean, Angels parting with a bad contract, getting a 1 yr deal DH that isn't a great contract but better than GMJs, it makes sense why they were approached in this deal.

 

But I understand Cowley is too busy beating his chest. I realize he's in a competitive industry and has one of about 50 jobs. But, his response was ridiculous, and if he honestly thinks marginalizing a sizeable potential audience for him is a good idea, I won't have any problem with schadenfreude when the ST goes bankrupt and he's watching Star Trek in his parents basement blogging about the White Sox.

 

In fact, I'll be the first to say Ha! Ha!

Exactly.

 

Obviously a trade for A-Gon isn't going to go down in the next day or two. But it is something that has been speculated on as an option, ever since the season had finished, because of the circumstances with San Diego's payroll, the Sox's need to improve their 1B/DH situation, and the two teams having dealt with each other only a couple of months ago with the Peavy deal, albeit there's a new GM in Hoyer there now.

 

As for the Soxnet / Cowley situation, Cowley's entitled to his view but obviously many people around here and myself feel that he was overly harsh in doing so to say the least, but hey that's the nature of the business.

 

Soxnet isn't mainstream, we hope one day that it becomes popular enough that it does so. And after making the post about the Gonzalez rumor, traffic on the site spiked significantly, so it has generated the site some publicity and extra viewing traffic which is great for the site. And obviously, every rumor that a message board or a blog posts is not always going to be correct. But the guys decided to post what they had heard from their sources, and for them to be dealt with by some members of the media (while some others have risen above that), has just been classless and really quite sad in the end.