RockRaines Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 11:48 AM) Wow. Look at the assumptions and accusations you're throwing around in this thread. Now Alexei might not even be as young as he says is... And apparently there arent any secrets to being a HOF SS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 11:54 AM) Maybe he helps him, maybe he doesn't. I don't really see what it matters. The whole "mentor" thing is just speculation anyway, Vizquel is a good fit as a defensive specialist backup infielder when you have 3 question marks on defense at 3B, SS and 2B. Assuming he does get signed, I'm just glad that the Sox are showing a little interest in defense -- they've been indifferent for quite a while. Totally agree. Even people want to piss on the "mentor" part of things (and I would also include a very young Gordon Beckham as a guy who could learn a lot of things from Omar), the guy is going provide great defense, smart ABs, and fill in over the entire IF defense, instead of just one spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 11:09 AM) Totally agree. Even people want to piss on the "mentor" part of things (and I would also include a very young Gordon Beckham as a guy who could learn a lot of things from Omar), the guy is going provide great defense, smart ABs, and fill in over the entire IF defense, instead of just one spot. We also are getting a very stabilizing clubhouse guy in Omar Vizquel. This isn't a move that you get super excited about, but its the type of move that does so many little things that it could really pay off pretty nice. Great Defense, Great Baserunner, Can Bunt, Can Teach our young guys, very good clubhouse guy. Ya, I like this a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 12:54 PM) I don't want to see Nix off the team, as I think he's a great asset to a team against LHP and was a great base runner. Right now he would be a waste of a roster space. He would essentially be a pinch hitter against lefties and pinch runner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 01:10 PM) We also are getting a very stabilizing clubhouse guy in Omar Vizquel. This isn't a move that you get super excited about, but its the type of move that does so many little things that it could really pay off pretty nice. Great Defense, Great Baserunner, Can Bunt, Can Teach our young guys, very good clubhouse guy. Ya, I like this a lot. Good point on the clubhouse stuff, since that seems to have been an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon_44 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 just for an entertaining clubhouse, for KW's next move he ought to sign Jose Mesa as a setup man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 07:11 PM) Right now he would be a waste of a roster space. He would essentially be a pinch hitter against lefties and pinch runner. We actually need some power on our bench Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 QUOTE (chw42 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 01:07 PM) Does it really matter? Not really. But if he doesn't, it could mean we'll flip him during the offseason for another team's former first round bust... ala Borchard for Thornton. That passing thought just interested me for a minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 01:14 PM) just for an entertaining clubhouse, for KW's next move he ought to sign Jose Mesa as a setup man. they could have a battery of Joe Table and Hank White....i like it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Expensive interpreter for Lexi if you ask me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 11:12 AM) Good point on the clubhouse stuff, since that seems to have been an issue. He could also replace Cora when/if he lands a managerial gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 01:11 PM) Right now he would be a waste of a roster space. He would essentially be a pinch hitter against lefties and pinch runner. He can also play great defense. Although with Vizquel taking over the defensive replacement role, I don't know where you can fit him. I like Nix's potential a lot. Hopefully, he will stay in the organization somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 01:14 PM) We actually need some power on our bench When and where is he going to play? He isn't going to replace Beckham, because Gordo is a much better hitter than he is, and he isn't a liability at 2B. He can't play SS or 3B to save his life, so he isn't going in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 QUOTE (scenario @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 01:15 PM) Not really. But if he doesn't, it could mean we'll flip him during the offseason for another team's former first round bust... ala Borchard for Thornton. That passing thought just interested me for a minute. I'm pretty sure he does have some options left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 We don't have a backup for SS, so how exactly is this anything but a great move? Guy does it right if he's 43 and still playing. What are we supposed to trade for Andrus to backup Alexei? 100% great move IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 02:14 PM) We actually need some power on our bench On the bench? Hell we need some power in the lineup! (I like this move though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 QUOTE (jphat007 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 01:22 PM) On the bench? Hell we need some power in the lineup! (I like this move though) Hopefully this power right fielder arrives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I've seen a couple posts here about Kotsay not being able to cover CF. I wouldn't start him there, but as occsional relief for Rios, I think he'd be fine. Rios will probably play 150 games there anyway, and I don't think Kotsay is so bad in CF that 12 games worries me. He's not the CF he once was, but he can cover the position without being a total disaster. Too small a sample size for him for the stats to mean much, so, I am going on what I saw. I'd rather keep De Aza in AAA, for if someone gets hurt. Just my .02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 QUOTE (chw42 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 01:18 PM) I'm pretty sure he does have some options left. He has one left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 01:28 PM) I've seen a couple posts here about Kotsay not being able to cover CF. I wouldn't start him there, but as occsional relief for Rios, I think he'd be fine. Rios will probably play 150 games there anyway, and I don't think Kotsay is so bad in CF that 12 games worries me. He's not the CF he once was, but he can cover the position without being a total disaster. Too small a sample size for him for the stats to mean much, so, I am going on what I saw. I'd rather keep De Aza in AAA, for if someone gets hurt. Just my .02. He caught 2 balls in CF (9 innings) for the Sox and 18 in the OF total. Doesn't seem like your eyes have much of a sample size to go on either. He's rated very poorly in CF each year since 2005, that's 3,437 innings. And now he's 34 and played only a handful of innings at the position last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 01:15 PM) they could have a battery of Joe Table and Hank White....i like it! or we could have a Joe Table battery of Omar Vizquel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 QUOTE (jphat007 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 07:22 PM) On the bench? Hell we need some power in the lineup! (I like this move though) Of course you do, Nix killed your dog! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 QUOTE (daa84 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 12:35 PM) well at least we have a pinch bunter...though im relatively certain ozzie will try to play vizquel 3 times a week at least....while i don't agree with the strategy, at least if ozzie is going to be asking guys to bunt and hit and run etc...at least we have a guy who can actually do it, and not brent lillibridge Honestly, I see this move leading to more playing time for Teahen, Ramirez and Beckham, which I think will be critical to our team's success next year. Vizquel's strength is his defense, which means he shouldn't have to play as frequently to be valuable to us. His situational hitting is a plus and anything he provides in the clubhouse is just an added bonus. I don't think this automatically means the end of Nix, but I do think it keeps Lillibridge off the roster. That alone makes this is a great move, since Lillibridge is far worse with the bat than Vizquel is even at 43. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earthshiner Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 people have forgotten that KWs love of the 90s Indians is greater than his love of the Royal castoffs. C Alomar 1B Thome 2B Alomar SS Vizquel 3B Perry LF Belle CF Lofton P Colon not all Kennys doings but still. Now I'm gonna bust out some All Star baseball 98 and play as the Cleveland Future Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 10:56 AM) This would have been AWESOME if it was 2003... You probably mean more like late 90's. At any rate, if it were late 90's, he'd be starting. QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 11:37 AM) Then couldn't we just sign him as a coach? The guy will be 43 next season. I understand that he has been a great defender in his career, but he can't honestly be anywhere near as good as he was. QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 11:46 AM) I'm speaking in general terms of course, most players hit their peak between 27-32. Oh, and that is if you believe he ACTUALLY IS 28. What is Vizquel going to teach Alexei an infield coach can't? There are not any huge secretes. I believe the difference is that sometimes tutoring is more effective when it's coming from a peer rather than your superior. When veteran players pull the younger ones aside, they tend to listen. And don't underestimate the benefit of Ramirez being able to take infield every day behind somebody like that. While Cora has the fungo, Vizquel will be standing out there in the field with both middle infielders, taking grounders, practicing DPs with them. Then both he and Beckham will be able to, on occasion, watch Vizquel demonstrate in actual games what he's been teaching them. There is value in that. QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 11:40 AM) Okay hes 43 and bad. There are better replacement level shortstops out there than Vizquel. The "teach Alexei things" is just an idiotic argument because you assume that Alexei has room to improve. He's 28 (I said 27 earlier I misspoke) entering the peak of his career. It's pretty silly to say he can improve on defense at that age when really, defense is the first set of skills to deteriorate. He most definitely can improve his defense, even at the age of 28. I also don't think it's true in every case that defense goes first, but when it does, it's usually because of deterioration of speed and range. And at this point, Alexei is in no danger of losing range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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