Official: Omar Vizquel Signs with Sox

[knightni]

Wow, you believe that Teahen's D is stronger than Beckham's, Ranger?

[Ranger]

Wow, you believe that Teahen's D is stronger than Beckham's, Ranger?

 

 

At 3rd base? Yes. I'm not talking Gold Glover or anything, but he's probably better and more comfortable over there than Beckham is. However, Beckham is the superior hitter.

[spiderman]

Where the heck is Cowley on this one? Nothing out of him. Surprising no Chicago Beat writers are on top of this. I saw the Trib did have something this AM.

 

It's usually the national guys wtih these stories, and the local guys picking them up and acting like they know all about it.

[Kyyle23]

At 3rd base? Yes. I'm not talking Gold Glover or anything, but he's probably better and more comfortable over there than Beckham is. However, Beckham is the superior hitter.

 

I agree with you right now. However if Beckham had another full year(2010) at 3rd, I think he would far surpass anything Teahen could do.

[knightni]

At 3rd base? Yes. I'm not talking Gold Glover or anything, but he's probably better and more comfortable over there than Beckham is. However, Beckham is the superior hitter.

I don't know...

 

Teahen and Beckham's D% at 3B last year was nearly identical. (.956 Teahen, .952 Beckham.)

 

Seems to be very close for two guys who either had never played 3B before last season or who hadn't played a significant amount at 3B for abou 3 years.

 

 

 

 

[chisox2334]

rosenthal is reportinWhen the White Sox traded for Mark Teahen, they said he would play third base. But as they pursue other players, Teahen's flexibility gives them options.

 

 

The White Sox, major-league sources say, are considering a wide variety of possibilities, knowing they can move Teahen to first base or right field. Sox GM Ken Williams, however, said Friday that he "loves Teahen at third", adding that while he will never say never to possible adjustments, he remains committed to his original plan.

 

Still, offseason plans are subject to change.

 

If, for example, the White Sox add a third baseman, Teahen could replace free agent Jermaine Dye in right. The same goes if they add a second baseman; Gordon Beckham could stay at third.

 

Finally, Teahen could take over at first if the White Sox trade Paul Konerko or make him a designated hitter.

 

"His preference obviously is to play third base — that's where he is most comfortable," said Teahen's agent, Jeff Berry. "(But) he does bring flexibility to any team."g that w sox are not quite set at having tehaen at 3b and looking to upgrade and put him wherever they need to improve the club

[Ranger]

I agree with you right now. However if Beckham had another full year(2010) at 3rd, I think he would far surpass anything Teahen could do.

 

That may very well be true, but Beckham is more valuable at 2B than he is at 3rd.

 

 

I don't know...

 

Teahen and Beckham's D% at 3B last year was nearly identical. (.956 Teahen, .952 Beckham.)

 

Seems to be very close for two guys who either had never played 3B before last season or who hadn't played a significant amount at 3B for abou 3 years.

 

I see what you're saying, but I wouldn't get caught up with the fielding percentage because it won't tell you everything. Most importantly, you have to keep in mind that the guy played 5 different positions last year. I can't imagine an everyday player could ever get comfortable at any spot if he's getting moved around the field so much. A full year at third would probably tell you a different story. Comfort has a lot to do with it. Again, I don't think he's a drastic improvement, but I think he's a little better.

[knightni]

It's too bad that they couldn't move Ramirez back to 2B for Vizquel.

 

He seems very lazy at short, loses concentration etc.

[justBLAZE]

That may very well be true, but Beckham is more valuable at 2B than he is at 3rd.

 

 

 

 

I see what you're saying, but I wouldn't get caught up with the fielding percentage because it won't tell you everything. Most importantly, you have to keep in mind that the guy played 5 different positions last year. I can't imagine an everyday player could ever get comfortable at any spot if he's getting moved around the field so much. A full year at third would probably tell you a different story. Comfort has a lot to do with it. Again, I don't think he's a drastic improvement, but I think he's a little better.

 

Seems like certain guys, Steve Stone, yourself think he is an above average thirdbaseman, while the other half thinks he is absolutely awful.

 

I think he will be alright.

[southsider2k5]

I don't know...

 

Teahen and Beckham's D% at 3B last year was nearly identical. (.956 Teahen, .952 Beckham.)

 

Seems to be very close for two guys who either had never played 3B before last season or who hadn't played a significant amount at 3B for abou 3 years.

 

Beckham had very little range at 3B last year, which makes his numbers in fielding percentage look better than the probably were. The kid struggled there.

[Balta1701]

It's too bad that they couldn't move Ramirez back to 2B for Vizquel.

 

He seems very lazy at short, loses concentration etc.

Maybe Vizquel can teach him something.

 

Vizquel's OPS the last 5 years is .670.

[knightni]

Yeah. Vizquel's bat has been absent.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if he's a mentor to Ramirez at SS like he was with Andrus last season.

[Kalapse]

I don't know...

 

Teahen and Beckham's D% at 3B last year was nearly identical. (.956 Teahen, .952 Beckham.)

 

Seems to be very close for two guys who either had never played 3B before last season or who hadn't played a significant amount at 3B for abou 3 years.

If you're going to look at a fielding metric just take a look at UZR which has Teahen rated well below average for his career and Beckham at just about average in 2009 at 3B. Beckham greatly improved his D as the season went on by the end of the year he was looking pretty damn good over there and the numbers bear that out as it was an uphill climb for him just to reach average.

[Ranger]

It's too bad that they couldn't move Ramirez back to 2B for Vizquel.

 

He seems very lazy at short, loses concentration etc.

 

That's the thing Alexei has to do better. He's such a talented player, but his head needs to be in the right spot more often next year.

 

Seems like certain guys, Steve Stone, yourself think he is an above average thirdbaseman, while the other half thinks he is absolutely awful.

 

I think he will be alright.

 

 

I haven't heard anyone say he's absolutely awful. Not anyone that works in baseball, anyway. The worst descriptor I've heard for him is "adequate."

[Dick Allen]

I'm in the camp saying that I'd lke to know what else that $1M could have gone towards.

 

Nonetheless, we dont know for sure that JR is unwilling to spend. So just like Rios, you cant knock it til you see the final product they have for us.

 

And, much like that move, you cant argue with a move aimed at shaving some brutality off our 2010 late inning defense.

I thought the Teahan trade was supposed to cover the bad defense. Vizquel isn't going to play SS in the 9th for Ramirez. He isn't going to play 2B for Beckham, he may occassionally come in to play 3rd, it isn't a brutal signing, but for a team always apparently strapped for cash, a very curious one. Offensively, he's done. He basically can be used as a pinch bunter.

 

What I don't understand is, the White Sox have already begun the money is tight campaign, yet they have spent $4.5 million more with Teahan and Vizquel than with Getz and a guy like Lillibridge. I know Lillibridge sucks, but was it wise to spend $4.5 million for what to me is a slight upgrade at best? Considering guys like Abreu got $5 million last year and this year's market is supposed to be flooded with non tenders and bargains, not only can I not understand going after Teahan, I don't know why you spend $1 million on a 43 year old defensive replacement who can go at any time. He's not going to win you games. This signing won't hamstring the team most likely and hopefully they won't fall $1 million or so short of a target than can actually help them win, but Omar Vizquel in 2010? I think its silly.

[Dick Allen]

Yeah. Vizquel's bat has been absent.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if he's a mentor to Ramirez at SS like he was with Andrus last season.

I've heard this argument about Vizquel a lot. First off Andrus was a pretty top notch prospect.I don't know if its fair Vizquel gets credit for his success. Also, Ozzie Guillen was a GG SS. If he and Joey Cora can't get through to Alexei, I don't see how anyone can think its probable Vizquel could get through to him. Its not like Omar is in a different generation as the other 2. They are practically the same age. Again, not a horrific signing, but IMO a waste of money.

Edited November 21, 2009 by Dick Allen

[BearSox]

Wow, this makes no sense... and even less sense if we plan on replacing Nix with Vizquel.

 

I like Vizquel, but the guy can't hit anything and he should have retired a while ago. The whole argument that he will be a teacher for Alexei is garbage as well, we have two former middle infielders who both know how to speak the same language as Ramirez. If the manager and bench coach can't get through to Alexei, as well as every other coach on the staff, why in the hell would an over the hill 43 year old magically solve all of Alexei's problems?

 

I do not see how in any way Vizquel makes this team any better except unless we signed him to be a rover MI coach.

[simba43]

Now if we can get Charles Nagy, Matt Williams, Carlos Baerga and Manny, our Indian collection will be complete.

funny

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Wow, this makes no sense... and even less sense if we plan on replacing Nix with Vizquel.

 

I like Vizquel, but the guy can't hit anything and he should have retired a while ago. The whole argument that he will be a teacher for Alexei is garbage as well, we have two former middle infielders who both know how to speak the same language as Ramirez. If the manager and bench coach can't get through to Alexei, as well as every other coach on the staff, why in the hell would an over the hill 43 year old magically solve all of Alexei's problems?

 

I do not see how in any way Vizquel makes this team any better except unless we signed him to be a rover MI coach.

It makes plenty of sense if you value defense. The position of SS has really changed from what it used to be. Even a Manager like Earl Weaver who loved the 3-run homer and was not much of a believer in "small ball" saw a need for someone like Mark Belanger who makes Omar Vizquel look like Albert Pujols.

 

Belanger was a slick fielding no hit ( and seriously no hit to the tune of a lifetime BA/OBP/SLG/OPS of .228/.300/.280/.580 ) SS who managed to play 18 years in the majors for some very very good Baltimore teams in the late 60's and 70's. You can bet your arse that the vaunted Oriole starters of that time like Jim Palmer, Dave McNally, Mike Cuellar, and Pat Dobson loved having him out there every day. A few years Belanger even got some MVP votes probably from Baltimore writers. Good defense makes a helluva difference when you've got golden arms out there pitching for you. The current infield of the Sox is going to be torture to our staff.

Edited November 21, 2009 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Dick Allen]

It makes plenty of sense if you value defense. The position of SS has really changed from what it used to be. Even a Manager like Earl Weaver who loved the 3-run homer and was not much of a believer in "small ball" saw a need for someone like Mark Belanger who makes Omar Vizquel look like Albert Pujols.

 

Belanger was a slick fielding no hit ( and seriously no hit to the tune of a lifetime BA/OBP/SLG/OPS of .228/.300/.280/.580 ) SS who managed to play 18 years in the majors for some very very good Baltimore teams in the late 60's and 70's. You can bet your arse that the vaunted Oriole starters of that time like Jim Palmer, Dave McNally, Mike Cuellar, Pat Dobson and Milt Pappas loved having him out there every day. A few years Belanger even got some MVP votes probably from Baltimore writers. Good defense makes a helluv difference when you've got golden arms out there pitching for you. The current infield of the Sox is going to be torture to our staff.

Alexei Ramirez is the White Sox SS. Vizquel will see very little time there and he is 43 years old. You think Jermaine Dye is old. This guy is 7 years older than him. And the game has changed. You can't get away with a guy who hit like Belanger anymore. At least in the AL.

Edited November 21, 2009 by Dick Allen

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Alexei Ramirez is the White Sox SS. Vizquel will see very little time there and he is 43 years old. You think Jermaine Dye is old. This guy is 7 years older than him. And the game has changed. You can't get away with a guy who hit like Belanger anymore. At least in the AL.

All the metrics say Vizquel is still a damn good fielder so if the Sox aren't going to have a good defensive infield they better have at least one late inning replacement who can field. Baseball has changed of course but defense should still be a priority in the late innings when you need to protect a one run lead.

[chunk23]

Alexei Ramirez is the White Sox SS. Vizquel will see very little time there and he is 43 years old. You think Jermaine Dye is old. This guy is 7 years older than him. And the game has changed. You can't get away with a guy who hit like Belanger anymore. At least in the AL.

 

 

I dunno, Franklin Gutierrez doesn't have much of a bat.

[Dick Allen]

All the metrics say Vizquel is still a damn good fielder so if the Sox aren't going to have a good defensive infield they better have at least one late inning replacement who can field. Baseball has changed of course but defense should still be a priority in the late innings when you need to protect a one run lead.

They aren't going to lift Alexei in the late innings or Beckham. Maybe Teahan. What I'm concerned about is the once or twice a week starts Vizquel gets. Want to bet he leads off occassionally?

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Playing a bit deeper on the mentor card- it struck me that Alexei was one of those who Kenny was unhappy with at the end of this season. I could see this as a "straighten out your s***" move directed at Alexei. He now has a resource in Vizquel, and will hopefully take advantage of that to improve his defensive game.

[Dick Allen]

I dunno, Franklin Gutierrez doesn't have much of a bat.

Look at Mark Belanger's lifetime stats. He hit over .228 3 times. A lifetime slugging pct. of .280. He was an awful hitter. God bless him,he played 18 seasons because of his glove, but he wouldn't play 18 seasons the way they play today.