Hideki Matsui

[kwolf68]

That's kind of the whole point behind the Rios acquisition. If he reaches his career norms at the plate and in the field in 2010 he'll fit your description exactly. And like every other player who fits that description he did not come cheap.

 

 

I agree and I absolutely loved getting Rios...though his performance down the stretch last year was abysmal. I think the guy still has tremendous upside and am holding out hope for him.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

True True, but Williams should have seen this all coming. We had numerous chances to turn our own aging vets into young talent, but waited until the shelf life was used up at which point Williams shops said players and gets bad offers.

 

That of course is a dead horse thats been beaten to death here, but it's clear the Sox have no position players ready to fill in at OF, we really don't have many top prospects to turn around for a high ceiling players, so...this is what we're doing, adding players like Jones and Matsui...I guess it's better than Lillibridge out there.

 

I seem to recall the best offer Williams getting for Dye at the deadline in 2007 was Wily Mo Pena and Craig Hansen. I think Williams made the right call in retaining and resigning Dye. He also made a move for a younger, more athletic, and thought to be good defensive outfielder in Carlos Quentin prior to the 2008 season, and he was phenomenal.

 

[Kalapse]

True True, but Williams should have seen this all coming. We had numerous chances to turn our own aging vets into young talent, but waited until the shelf life was used up at which point Williams shops said players and gets bad offers.

 

That of course is a dead horse thats been beaten to death here, but it's clear the Sox have no position players ready to fill in at OF, we really don't have many top prospects to turn around for a high ceiling players, so...this is what we're doing, adding players like Jones and Matsui...I guess it's better than Lillibridge out there.

One of those guy's is a bench player and the other is a DH, 2 positions that you don't really need to fill with young, exciting ballplayers. By my count 5 of our 7 current position players are under the age of 30, four of them are fine athletes (all 5 if Carlos can prove his health) and 3 of them weren't in our 2009 opening day lineup. This looks like an improvement to me.

[kwolf68]

Fields was young and athletic, you want him back starting for us? He would possibly be the worst starting third baseman in baseball.

 

I prefer good players who are athletic, but those guys are hard to acquire and are rare.

 

 

Just because one isn't excited about obtaining aging, injury proned, poor defensive players does not mean they want to put players out there who are simply not Major League talent.

 

Just because I don't see a Jay Bruce (or whoever) ready to be pluked by the Sox doesn't mean I'm going to be excited about these guys Williams is bringing in whose best days are clearly behind them.

 

I know his thinking (I think) ... the AL Central sucks and this probably isn't the time to go into a youth movement given that factor and the fact we do have a great starting rotation.

 

Still am not excited about the geezer patrol.

[SoxAce]

We need to get younger, not older.

 

Well I've reiterated Austin Kearns as a possible buy low many times on this board. Not sure how "good" he is anymore (though he's had bad luck and playing for the Nats... well... sucks), but defensively he is still very, very good. I believe he was in the top 5 of the fielding bible from 05-07, though that is more Kalapse's M.O. to know. He's only turning 30 in May and even with two horrendous (though not that many PA) years, still has a respectable .355 OBP in his career.

[soxfan3530]

I dont see what the problem is? Its not like we are signing this guy to a 7 year deal or anything. This would be a 1 or 2 year deal if anything for a productive hitter at a fairly good price. I'm not sure i see a down side.

[kwolf68]

I dont see what the problem is? Its not like we are signing this guy to a 7 year deal or anything. This would be a 1 or 2 year deal if anything for a productive hitter at a fairly good price. I'm not sure i see a down side.

 

 

I will admit, if he's not in LF there may not be a downside.

[SoxAce]

I seem to recall the best offer Williams getting for Dye at the deadline in 2007 was Wily Mo Pena and Craig Hansen.

 

It was Willy Mo and Manny Delcarmen actually. I remember it like it was yesterday.

[Kalapse]

Just because one isn't excited about obtaining aging, injury proned, poor defensive players does not mean they want to put players out there who are simply not Major League talent.

 

Just because I don't see a Jay Bruce (or whoever) ready to be pluked by the Sox doesn't mean I'm going to be excited about these guys Williams is bringing in whose best days are clearly behind them.

 

I know his thinking (I think) ... the AL Central sucks and this probably isn't the time to go into a youth movement given that factor and the fact we do have a great starting rotation.

 

Still am not excited about the geezer patrol.

Our only old, slow players would be at 1B, C and DH. How many teams have young, fast guys at those positions? That's where you supply your power while sacrificing athleticism. It's not realistic to demand a 1-9 of players in the prime of their careers.

[nitetrain8601]

All this arguing for a guy we haven't even signed. The Sox could do a lot worse than Matsui. He's actually still a productive hitter. I wouldn't be mad at the Sox signing him.

[bigruss]

Just because one isn't excited about obtaining aging, injury proned, poor defensive players does not mean they want to put players out there who are simply not Major League talent.

 

Just because I don't see a Jay Bruce (or whoever) ready to be pluked by the Sox doesn't mean I'm going to be excited about these guys Williams is bringing in whose best days are clearly behind them.

 

I know his thinking (I think) ... the AL Central sucks and this probably isn't the time to go into a youth movement given that factor and the fact we do have a great starting rotation.

 

Still am not excited about the geezer patrol.

I would not be excited about any player being broguht in that is subpar. But its not like we are bringing in geezers who are way past the ability to contribute. Either KW brought in guys for roles such as Vizquel, or if he brings in Matsui its because he is a very well balanced hitter who would contribute alot to the lineup. What young guy that the Sox could actually get could do that?

 

Not every move is going to bring in a stud young player in the making unless your losing talent yourself.

[witesoxfan]

It was Willy Mo and Manny Delcarmen actually. I remember it like it was yesterday.

 

I remember the Sox wanting Delcarmen. I don't think the Red Sox were willing to give Delcarmen. He was having a fantastic season acting as a setup man and was going to be counted on for years (and he's essentially fulfilled that, though he was mediocre this past season). The Red Sox wouldn't jump at it because they didn't need Dye that badly (and considering they won the World Series, I'd say they were right).

[SoxAce]

I remember the Sox wanting Delcarmen. I don't think the Red Sox were willing to give Delcarmen. He was having a fantastic season acting as a setup man and was going to be counted on for years (and he's essentially fulfilled that, though he was mediocre this past season). The Red Sox wouldn't jump at it because they didn't need Dye that badly (and considering they won the World Series, I'd say they were right).

 

I remember it like it was yesterday.. and just googled it. Now you do the same and get back to me.

 

And I actually forgot Justin Masterson was almost in it/exchanged/being discussed as well.

Edited December 8, 2009 by SoxAce

[witesoxfan]

I remember it like it was yesterday.. and just googled it. Now you do the same and get back to me.

 

And I actually forgot Justin Masterson was almost in it/exchanged/being discussed as well.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/07/pretty-good-cha.html

 

UPDATE: Edes says it would be Manny Delcarmen or Justin Masterson as the pitcher.

 

UPDATE 2: Now Edes is saying that the Red Sox are not close to a deal for Dye. They are currently refusing to give up Delcarmen or Masterson.

[Chisoxfn]

Now is the time to go after Matsui. The Angels are more focused on negotiations with Lackey and Bay and the Yankees only see Matsui as a back-up option (Damon is there plan A).

 

Go hard, go fast, and get er done.

[SoxAce]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/07/pretty-good-cha.html

 

Take a look wite. And shame on you for actually using mlbtraderumors as a source to try and "be right." Talks "stalled" later but I think that was more or less on either Pena getting injured round that time, or the sawks riding what they got.

Edited December 8, 2009 by SoxAce

[soxfan3530]

Now is the time to go after Matsui. The Angels are more focused on negotiations with Lackey and Bay and the Yankees only see Matsui as a back-up option (Damon is there plan A).

 

Go hard, go fast, and get er done.

yup i agree. and after that, as much as it pains me to say it, i think the sox lay back and take pods or coco for a cheap deal.

[witesoxfan]

Take a look wite. And shame on you for actually using mlbtraderumors as a source to try and "be right." Talks "stalled" later but I think that was more or less on either Pena getting injured round that time, or the sawks riding what they got.

 

What are you talking about? The dude at MLB Trade Rumors is using Gordon Edes as his source. The only thing MLB Trade Rumors has done in the past is make up false rumors or go based off of some sketchy sources, neither of which were the case here. It's the same thing Rotoworld does on a constant basis. In fact, here's what Rotoworld had to say about it.

Jermaine Dye-OF- White Sox Jul. 30 - 2:35 pm et

The Boston Globe's Gordon Edes says the Red Sox will not part with either Manny Delcarmen or Justin Masterson along with Wily Mo Pena for Jermaine Dye.

Then they're probably not going to get a deal done. Edes says the Red Sox won't give up the young pitcher for a rent-a-player, but it's not just Dye -- it's also the draft picks he'd bring. Masterson was a second-round pick in 2006. The Red Sox would get at least one pick better than that next year if they brought in Dye now and then let him go as a free agent.

Jermaine Dye-OF- White Sox Jul. 31 - 3:00 pm et

A source told FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal, that the talks between the White Sox and Red Sox regarding Jermaine Dye are dead.

It's believed Boston offered Wily Mo Pena and Craig Hansen. Dye seems unlikely to be dealt to another team. The White Sox could attempt to re-sign him for two or three years.

 

Checkmate.

[Harry Chappas]

In a macro sense the White Sox are adding old players.

 

In a micro sense they are adding guys that have good MLB history and should be able to handle the type of pitchers that hurt the Sox, s*** righties.

 

Who can hit s*** righties, good left handed hitters (Matsui, Teahan, Vizquel, and Kotsay). Thease are the guys that should bode well against the Twins, Indians and Royals rotations.

 

Are these moves sexy....no but the AL Central is terrible and off of the top of my head there is not a good leftie in the divison.....Laffey maybe?

 

The White Sox really do not need to make big expensive moves to win this division all they need to do is stay healthy and do their job.

 

The rotation can win the world series if they get to the playoffs and that is how this team is being constructed.

[witesoxfan]

In a macro sense the White Sox are adding old players.

 

In a micro sense they are adding guys that have good MLB history and should be able to handle the type of pitchers that hurt the Sox, s*** righties.

 

Who can hit s*** righties, good left handed hitters (Matsui, Teahan, Vizquel, and Kotsay). Thease are the guys that should bode well against the Twins, Indians and Royals rotations.

 

Are these moves sexy....no but the AL Central is terrible and off of the top of my head there is not a good leftie in the divison.....Laffey maybe?

 

The White Sox really do not need to make big expensive moves to win this division all they need to do is stay healthy and do their job.

 

The rotation can win the world series if they get to the playoffs and that is how this team is being constructed.

 

I hadn't even thought of it like that. It's crazy and it's true.

[SoxAce]

What are you talking about? The dude at MLB Trade Rumors is using Gordon Edes as his source. The only thing MLB Trade Rumors has done in the past is make up false rumors or go based off of some sketchy sources, neither of which were the case here. It's the same thing Rotoworld does on a constant basis. In fact, here's what Rotoworld had to say about it.

 

 

 

Checkmate.

 

You used the same source (mlbtraderumors/Edes which rotoworld followed up on twice.) The Rosenthal one I'll give you, though that was AFTER the sawks decided not to part with Masterson originally. Did you even look at the google articles I gave you? I know it feeds your ego, but step down once in a while bro.

Edited December 8, 2009 by SoxAce

[knightni]

Matsui at DH, Jones in LF.

 

 

As long as Beckham or Ramirez can lead off, I guess that it would work.

[witesoxfan]

You used the same source (mlbtraderumors/Edes which rotoworld followed up on twice.) The Rosenthal one I'll give you, though that was AFTER the sawks decided not to part with Masterson originally. Did you even look at the google articles I gave you? I know it feeds your ego, but step down once in a while bro.

 

so I'm not supposed to believe Gordon Edes, who is from the Boston area and would have a few inside sources within the Red Sox organization? K

[Jordan4life_2007]

Are these moves sexy....no but the AL Central is terrible and off of the top of my head there is not a good leftie in the divison.....Laffey maybe?

 

LOL. That's amazing when you think about it. Just a few years ago you had Sabathia, Santana, Lee, Liriano (the dominant version), Kenny Rogers. Probably some more I'm forgetting at the moment. Yeah, the two best lefties by far left in the division pitch for the White Sox.

 

 

[daa84]

i'm actually really hoping the sox are the "mystery AL team" that supposedly has a deal in place for milton bradley......obps the last 4 years.....370, .402, .438, .378....id lead him off and play him at DH....probably nobody else would, but id do it