Official Boxing Thread

[Jake]

The sport is going nowhere as long as it is on PPV

 

put it on a network

[Rex Hudler]

The sport is going nowhere as long as it is on PPV

 

put it on a network

 

Boxing is routinely on ESPN, HBO, Showtime, some of the Fox networks and now EPIX and NBC Sports (or whatever they call the former VS). Only the major fights are on PPV.

 

Boxing has many problems. There is a different commission and therefore ruling body in every state. Even the drug testing is different in every state. There are multiple sanctioning bodies who offer titles so it is confusing to fans as to who the real champions are unless you follow closely. Individual promoters sign and develop fighters and they often have personality conflicts that keep great fights from happening. There is no one to keep fighters from jumping from one promoter to another (other than contracts and sometimes those don't help) which just enhances the animosity. If boxing had a national commission and a national set of rules and guidelines, it would be much better off.

 

Questionable judging is also a problem. But it goes back to every state having their own commision, therefore hiring and training their own judges. Judging is not easy. The judges are placed on three different sides of the ring so they don't all see the same things. Sometimes one or two is blocked by a fighter or the referee. It is also very objective. Some judges prefer a buisier or more aggressive fighter. Others put more weight into clean, effective, aka powerful punches. It does not have a scoring system like the Olympics that just tally every time a punch lands no matter how hard. Some judges may give more preference to punches to the head than the body. Punches to the head are more dramatic and cause greater crowd reaction. Subconciously they can be affected by the crowd just like in any sport. Lastly, they judge each round individually, which means once they give a round to a fighter, its in the bank and recorded. Each round is judged on its own, not looking at the bigger picture of the fight as fans do. It's possible for a judge to give a fighter several close rounds and the other fighter rounds in which he clearly won. Fans will have the impression the fight is one-sided, but it is closer to even. A 10-9 close round counts the same as a 10-9 round dominated by a fighter with no knockdowns. All of that said, there are still some very questionable scorecards, including a bout last year in Atlantic City where all three judges were suspended by the NJAC. Not for anything fishy, just due to obvious poor performance. I fell asleep last night in the 12th round. I woke up this morning early and started again in the 10th round to catch the end and fell asleep again. When I finally got my ass out of bed this morning, I was shocked to see the decision. This was certainly one of those ridiculous decisions. While not a boxing judge I do try to evaluate each round on its own and I still had it either 10-2 or 9-3 for Pacquaio. Decisions like these do give boxing a black eye.

 

All of that said, boxing is alive and not dead. While it is not as main stream as it once was, the attendance and revenues are very high. None of UFC/MMA's gates and PPV revenues even compare to boxing. In fact, I think there is only one MMA gate in the top 65 ever in Las Vegas. Last night's fight will likely do around 1 million buys, maybe a little less. Pacquiao routinely surpasses a million. Mayweather did 1.5 million against Cotto. He also almost always draws more than a million. None of the UFC/MMA PPV's even approach those numbers. Part of that is boxing is strong worldwide, but the PPV numbers initially reported are just those in the US. That's why boxers make so much more money, because fans are paying to watch.

 

Sorry for the long post, but hope it was at least helpful to some.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

[Rex Hudler]

 

 

I didn't watch all the way to the end of the video so I may have missed his final point. But I have always felt that HBO's announcers (and other networks sometimes) get too wrapped up in the favorite or who they want to win and call the action in a one-sided manner. Larry Merchant drives me freakin nuts and Lampley and Steward aren't too far behind. Strangely enough, I like Kellerman the best. There is truth to "you see what you want to see".

 

All of that said, Pacquio still won the fight. I went back and watched it a 2nd time and gave a couple more rounds to Bradley, but 8-4 Pacquiao is the best I could give. The WBO asked five veteran international judges to score the fight and all scored for Pacquiao, ranging from 115-113 to 118-111. After the fight, Bradley didn't think he won.

 

So if this video is trying to make an argument that Bradley won, I'm not buying. If it is pointing out that HBO announcers tend to show favoritism and the fight was closer than they described, then I'll buy that argument.

[LittleHurt05]

bump

 

 

I am really enjoying Roy Jones as an analyst, he is doing a great job.

[justBLAZE]

WELP...

[bschmaranz]

[lord chas]

so much for the pacman/mayweather super fight

[Whitewashed in '05]

so much for the pacman/mayweather super fight

No, Mayweather is now going to want to fight him and Pacman, being the man that he is and proving he isn't done is going to fight him (though it's obvious he's on the decline).

[Brian]

No, Mayweather is now going to want to fight him and Pacman, being the man that he is and proving he isn't done is going to fight him (though it's obvious he's on the decline).

 

I'm as casual of a boxing fan as anyone and I would of plunked down cash for a Pac/Money super fight. Not so sure I would now. Wonder if that KO cost Floyd a bigger purse? Who knows.

[farmteam]

That was one hell of a punch.

[Rowand44]

And boom goes the dynamite.

[Ross]

Well, I still be down to see Pac vs Mayweather, but it is pretty clear that Mayweather is better. I want to see Mayweather vs Canelo Alvarez.

[Real]

No, Mayweather is now going to want to fight him and Pacman, being the man that he is and proving he isn't done is going to fight him (though it's obvious he's on the decline).

 

They're both on the decline. Mayweather isn't invincible to father time, despite what people think

 

And Floyd is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, if he fights Manny now people will just say "He waited for Pacquiao to get KTFO". And if he doesn't fight him, people will say "he's still ducking Pacquiao"

 

The only way Floyd can silence the critics is to go up to 160 and beat Sergio Martinez which is unrealistic, but that's how fickle casual boxing "stans" are now, they don't know s*** about the sport

[Real]

Well, I still be down to see Pac vs Mayweather, but it is pretty clear that Mayweather is better. I want to see Mayweather vs Canelo Alvarez.

 

It was clear Mayweather was the better fighter the day the comparisons started, anybody with an ounce of boxing knowledge knows this. Pacquiao is a great fighter, but he throws caution to the wind in his fights, he's defensively irresponsible. He'll never come back the same after that KO, mark my words. That KO reminded me of the paul williams KO

[SoxAce]

Never seen Marquez that ripped before. Jesus.

[Real]

Never seen Marquez that ripped before. Jesus.

 

because he juiced the f*** up during his training, same as pacquiao. people should realize by now that the only way you're going to get caught juicing in boxing is if you're an idiot. currently NO boxing commission tests year-round, and until that happens these fighters will continue to juice during pre-training camps to build lean muscle/fast twitch muscle, and going into "official" training camp already reaping the benefits meanwhile testing clean once the fight is over

 

marquez' upper body was huge but his legs are tiny. pacquiao gets more benefit in his lower body (his legs are massive) but still works his upper body a bit. marquez was slow saturday night, and was only trying to do one thing: land a vicious counter overhand right. I had pacquiao winning 47-46 going into the 6th round and I had manny winning that round. problem is he jabbed his way towards marquez (????? wtf?) with 1 second left in the round, and then dropped his hands. why would you drop your hands against a counter puncher who just bulked up purely to knock you the f*** out?

 

pacquiao is a retard. great athleticism but not too bright as a boxer

[Rex Hudler]

I've been to many big time college football games, MLB playoff games, an MLB All-Star game, NFL games, NBA games, IU-Kentucky NCAA basketball games as well as NCAA Tournaments, including the Sweet Sixteen and no atmosphere was as charged as the fight Saturday night! It was freakin' awesome!

 

If anyone did not see the fight, watch it on HBO Saturday night. It was a great fight and there is no way HBO can give you a true feel for what it was like in the arena. After being at a big fight live, I wish HBO would do less talking before the fight and show more of what goes on with the intros and arena production. It was spectacular. Top Rank does a helluva job with the event production. I wish others would follow their lead.

 

I've thought for about a year now that the Floyd-Manny fight was overcooked, so to speak. Manny clearly hasn't been the same fighter in his last 3 fights (even though I believe he beat Bradley). The fight should have happened in 2010. I'm not so sure who would have won back then, but since the Moseley fight I've felt in my gut that Mayweather was just too good a boxer and strong enough to handle Manny. Pacquiao just overwhelmed opponents with speed and power. But Marquez has proven if you can make him miss enough to counter him he's vulnerable. I think for the fight to happen now, it would have to be in September next year after Manny has taken a comeback fight and only if he is dominant. Maybe if he dominates Bradley in a rematch, could the fight be sold. I'm not so sure Floyd was ever ducking Manny as much as Floyd is so self-absorbed that he had to have it his way. In his mind Manny didn't deserve equal billing. That said, it had to factor in to some degree with both Floyd and Bob Arum that the fight didn't have to be made and both fighters staying strong would continue the cash flowing. I'm not sure Manny thought like that. But the inability/refusal for Golden Boy and Top Rank to act like adults and get fights made may have had as much to do with the fight not getting made than anything.

 

I don't agree with the automatic assumption that Pacquiao before and Marquez juiced. The size of his legs doesn't make a difference. I've seen people make huge gains with their bodies simply with the right diet, supplements and hard, focused training. It can be done, it just takes work. If you watched 24/7 you could see some of the stuff JMM was doing to get stronger. Could they be juicing? Sure. But I'm not about to discount the work they've done by making assumed claims.

 

Lastly, and sorry, I'm catching up all in one post.... Some of the fights I'd love to see are: Floyd v. Sergio, Floyd v. Canelo (spring 2014), Marquez v. Rios, Gamboa v. Broner, etc. If I can figure out how to upload video or pics on here I will load some stuff I got from the weigh-in. My phone freakin' died during the undercard so I got nothing from the fight itself.

[Real]

I've been to many big time college football games, MLB playoff games, an MLB All-Star game, NFL games, NBA games, IU-Kentucky NCAA basketball games as well as NCAA Tournaments, including the Sweet Sixteen and no atmosphere was as charged as the fight Saturday night! It was freakin' awesome!

 

If anyone did not see the fight, watch it on HBO Saturday night. It was a great fight and there is no way HBO can give you a true feel for what it was like in the arena. After being at a big fight live, I wish HBO would do less talking before the fight and show more of what goes on with the intros and arena production. It was spectacular. Top Rank does a helluva job with the event production. I wish others would follow their lead.

 

I've thought for about a year now that the Floyd-Manny fight was overcooked, so to speak. Manny clearly hasn't been the same fighter in his last 3 fights (even though I believe he beat Bradley). The fight should have happened in 2010. I'm not so sure who would have won back then, but since the Moseley fight I've felt in my gut that Mayweather was just too good a boxer and strong enough to handle Manny. Pacquiao just overwhelmed opponents with speed and power. But Marquez has proven if you can make him miss enough to counter him he's vulnerable. I think for the fight to happen now, it would have to be in September next year after Manny has taken a comeback fight and only if he is dominant. Maybe if he dominates Bradley in a rematch, could the fight be sold. I'm not so sure Floyd was ever ducking Manny as much as Floyd is so self-absorbed that he had to have it his way. In his mind Manny didn't deserve equal billing. That said, it had to factor in to some degree with both Floyd and Bob Arum that the fight didn't have to be made and both fighters staying strong would continue the cash flowing. I'm not sure Manny thought like that. But the inability/refusal for Golden Boy and Top Rank to act like adults and get fights made may have had as much to do with the fight not getting made than anything.

 

I don't agree with the automatic assumption that Pacquiao before and Marquez juiced. The size of his legs doesn't make a difference. I've seen people make huge gains with their bodies simply with the right diet, supplements and hard, focused training. It can be done, it just takes work. If you watched 24/7 you could see some of the stuff JMM was doing to get stronger. Could they be juicing? Sure. But I'm not about to discount the work they've done by making assumed claims.

 

Lastly, and sorry, I'm catching up all in one post.... Some of the fights I'd love to see are: Floyd v. Sergio, Floyd v. Canelo (spring 2014), Marquez v. Rios, Gamboa v. Broner, etc. If I can figure out how to upload video or pics on here I will load some stuff I got from the weigh-in. My phone freakin' died during the undercard so I got nothing from the fight itself.

 

Sergio beats Floyd even at 154lbs.. Sergio would still come into the ring at 168-170lbs (he's too good of a boxer plus the size disadvantage), Broner sparks Gamboa in 8 or 9 rounds. I want to see Broner vs Matthysse at 140lbs, that is the next big rivalry once floyd retires assuming they give Matthysse a shot at a title (he was robbed against Judah and Alexander)

 

sorry, I'm really high on Lucas Matthysse, dude is a beast with good boxing ability

 

[Rex Hudler]

Sergio beats Floyd even at 154lbs.. Sergio would still come into the ring at 168-170lbs (he's too good of a boxer plus the size disadvantage), Broner sparks Gamboa in 8 or 9 rounds. I want to see Broner vs Matthysse at 140lbs, that is the next big rivalry once floyd retires assuming they give Matthysse a shot at a title (he was robbed against Judah and Alexander)

 

sorry, I'm really high on Lucas Matthysse, dude is a beast with good boxing ability

 

I disagree. I don't think Matthysse is that good. I was looking at your P4P list and I can't argue with any other than him and Chad Dawson. Both good fighters, Dawson certainly more proven. But his fighting style is just boring. He's painfun to watch sometime. The jury is out on Matthysse. I don't think he got robbed, but he certainly could have won either of those fights. I agree that Sergio gives Floyd lots of problems.

 

Personally, I like the IBF rule that you can't be more than 10 lbs over the limit the next day. I don't quite understand how guys can dehydrate themselves so much that they can gain 15-20 lbs overnight and still be strong enough to grind out a tough fight for 12 rounds. I wish they would all adopt that and have the guys fight in more their true weight classes.

 

[Real]

I disagree. I don't think Matthysse is that good. I was looking at your P4P list and I can't argue with any other than him and Chad Dawson. Both good fighters, Dawson certainly more proven. But his fighting style is just boring. He's painfun to watch sometime. The jury is out on Matthysse. I don't think he got robbed, but he certainly could have won either of those fights. I agree that Sergio gives Floyd lots of problems.

 

Personally, I like the IBF rule that you can't be more than 10 lbs over the limit the next day. I don't quite understand how guys can dehydrate themselves so much that they can gain 15-20 lbs overnight and still be strong enough to grind out a tough fight for 12 rounds. I wish they would all adopt that and have the guys fight in more their true weight classes.

 

what about matthysse makes you think he isn't that good? I had him beating Judah 8 rounds to 4, it was a clear robbery but boxing is subjective so you can't argue with somebody when it goes to the cards

 

he's the only guy I'd pick over Broner. i could see Rios taking Broner out but only if Broner doesn't KO him first. eventually that chin has to crack and we haven't seen broner against a true pressure fighter. that demarco fight was a joke. tons of videos on youtube saying "BRONER PASSED THE TEST". how is it a test when you're an 8-1 favorite in vegas before the fight happens? he did what he was supposed to do.

 

lucas is a smart fighter who can brawl, similar to Guerrero. i think people look at matthysse as a brawler but he's more of a boxer/puncher with a high ring IQ

 

we'll see how he does against hank lundy but i'm pretty sure he'll get lundy out of there

[Rex Hudler]

what about matthysse makes you think he isn't that good? I had him beating Judah 8 rounds to 4, it was a clear robbery but boxing is subjective so you can't argue with somebody when it goes to the cards

 

he's the only guy I'd pick over Broner. i could see Rios taking Broner out but only if Broner doesn't KO him first. eventually that chin has to crack and we haven't seen broner against a true pressure fighter. that demarco fight was a joke. tons of videos on youtube saying "BRONER PASSED THE TEST". how is it a test when you're an 8-1 favorite in vegas before the fight happens? he did what he was supposed to do.

 

lucas is a smart fighter who can brawl, similar to Guerrero. i think people look at matthysse as a brawler but he's more of a boxer/puncher with a high ring IQ

 

we'll see how he does against hank lundy but i'm pretty sure he'll get lundy out of there

 

I've seen Matthysse fight a few times and I just don't think he's elite. I think he's good, but not great. I agree with you on the Demarco fight. I saw Edwin Valero destroy Demarco and knew then he was nothing but a good fighter with guts. Not championship quality.

 

As far as Broner, we haven't seen him really get hit yet. Which is why I'd love to see vs. Gamboa. Both are lightning fast and have power. I'd say Broner's defense is better, but if he gets rocked once or twice, who knows how he will react. Farenas gave Gamboa a good fight. Gamboa clearly won, but Farenas had a strong chin and tested Gamboa. He also showed again that Gamboa can be caught. I would be surprised if it wasn't a great fight between the two. I really like Guerrero. He showed a different side against Berto, some Andre Ward type skills with the ability to adapt to different styles. I don't know that he's a match for Floyd (maybe if the fight waited another year), but I'd have him rated above Matthysse for sure.

[Rex Hudler]

Since I can't figure out how to post pics on here... See the link below for a photo album of pics from this past weekend. My battery died so I didn't get any pics on fight night other than the three right after I arrived. The album is not password protected and set for public viewing.

 

PacMarquez Vegas Photos

 

 

[Real]

If Broner fought Gamboa in 3 months, Broner wins that fight easily as Gamboa has had one fight in 15 months (and that was against Farenas). Farenas didn't really prove anything about Gamboa because he's been so inactive due to his contract being bought out by 50 cent, apparently he was forced by the judge to stay inactive for a full year if he were to allow 50cent to purchase his contract

 

I used to be high on gamboa but after seeing more of his fights, he kind of reminds me of amir khan. not in terms of how he throws his punches, but because they both don't seem to know "when" to throw punches, which is why they always get caught with big shots. watching Khan on saturday, he looks exactly the same as the old khan, the only difference is he fought a guy who normally fights at 135 and at 140 the dude had zero power. he caught amir repeatedly with those left hooks to the jaw, the same punch that Garcia landed on him, only difference is Garcia is a natural 140 guy

 

fights i'm looking forward to next year, Rigondeaux vs Donaire, Mayweather vs Canelo, Garcia vs Judah, Ward vs Pavlik (postponed til February), Matthysse vs Lundy and then hopefully Matthysse vs Khan (fortunately for Matthysse, Khan has to build himself back up and Lucas might get his spotlight again), Pacquiao vs Rios (??? blood and guts fight), Broner vs Burns, Mayweather vs Martinez or Pacquiao (doubt either one happens but I hope one of them does), Martinez vs Murray

 

more that I can't think of at the moment, should be exciting next year

[Rex Hudler]

Some disappointing fight news today. Andre Ward - Pavlik is off. Ward having surgery on his shoulder. That sucks. I really like Andre and was hoping a buys 2013 might gain him some popularity with US fight fans and help him become a bigger draw.

 

Hank Lundy loses his shot at Lucas Matthysse due to "promotional issues"? Sucks for him. Mike Dallas Jr. is his replacement and doesn't belong in that level of fight. That said, he'll present problems for Lucas. He won't beat him, but Dallas Jr. makes for sloppy fights. I've seen him several times including once live. He lunges a lot when he punches and holds a lot. Hard to get into any kind of flow or rhythm against him. Hope the undercard that night is good or it might be a good night to have something else going on.