knightni Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Nov 23, 2009 -> 04:34 PM) Jim Rice - Played in the Field Harold Baines - Rarely played in the Field Baines played 1,059 games in the outfield, 1,046 as a DH by age 36. Rice played 1,543 games in the OF and 530 as DH by the same age. That's only three seasons worth of games different as DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 08:18 PM) Baines played 1,059 games in the outfield, 1,046 as a DH by age 36. Rice played 1,543 games in the OF and 530 as DH by the same age. That's only three seasons worth of games different as DH. There's a tremendous difference in how they accumulated those games. Rice split time between LF and DH for the first 5 years of his career largely because the Red Sox had more talented outfielders than spots to play them by the time he hit age 26 he was a full time leftfielder. Harold Baines was a DH for the final 15 years of his career because he was no longer capable of playing the outfield everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 09:33 PM) There's a tremendous difference in how they accumulated those games. Rice split time between LF and DH for the first 5 years of his career largely because the Red Sox had a quite a few talented outfielders by the time he hit age 26 he was a full time leftfielder. Harold Baines was a DH for the final 15 years of his career because he was no longer capable of playing the outfield everyday. I was refuting Jason's stance that Baines rarely played the outfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 08:34 PM) I was refuting Jason's stance that Baines rarely played the outfield. When you're only being considered for the hall of fame because you played 22 years and 15 of those years you were incapable of playing the field that qualifies as 'rarely playing the field'. There's also a rather large difference between 25% and 50% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Nov 23, 2009 -> 03:34 PM) Jim Rice was... - A 8 time All Star - A 2 time Silver Slugger Winner - A MVP Winner (1978) - Finished in the Top 5 for MVP, 6 times - Led his team to 2 World Series - In the 1990 World Series he hit .333 - Played in the Field - Career Avg .293 30HR 113RBI - Got into the HOF on his 15th and Final Try. Harold Baines was... - A 6 time All Star. - A 1 time Silver Slugger Winner. - Never Won a MVP. - Never Finished in the Top 5 for MVP. - Led his team to 1 World Series - In the 1986 World Series he hit .143 - Rarely played in the Field - Career Avg .283 22HR 93RBI When Baines played the field he was a very good bordering on outstanding right fielder. He was 10X the outfielder that Rice was. Just because Rice stood out there and played barely adequate OF is nothing to put on the resume. Baines was a great player to watch and a very good hitter. I don't think he belongs in the HOF but neither should Rice be there. Both were very good hitters but not deserving of the HOF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba43 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 05:34 AM) Jim Rice was... - A 8 time All Star - A 2 time Silver Slugger Winner - A MVP Winner (1978) - Finished in the Top 5 for MVP, 6 times - Led his team to 2 World Series - In the 1990 World Series he hit .333 - Played in the Field - Career Avg .293 30HR 113RBI - Got into the HOF on his 15th and Final Try. Harold Baines was... - A 6 time All Star. - A 1 time Silver Slugger Winner. - Never Won a MVP. - Never Finished in the Top 5 for MVP. - Led his team to 1 World Series - In the 1986 World Series he hit .143 - Rarely played in the Field - Career Avg .283 22HR 93RBI but Rice was more feared as a hitter i remember watching games and when rice step to the plate you got nervous i can't say that for Baines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba43 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 05:34 AM) Jim Rice was... - A 8 time All Star - A 2 time Silver Slugger Winner - A MVP Winner (1978) - Finished in the Top 5 for MVP, 6 times - Led his team to 2 World Series - In the 1990 World Series he hit .333 - Played in the Field - Career Avg .293 30HR 113RBI - Got into the HOF on his 15th and Final Try. Harold Baines was... - A 6 time All Star. - A 1 time Silver Slugger Winner. - Never Won a MVP. - Never Finished in the Top 5 for MVP. - Led his team to 1 World Series - In the 1986 World Series he hit .143 - Rarely played in the Field - Career Avg .283 22HR 93RBI also Rice had some monster years from 1977 to 1979 was the best hitter in baseball best overall hitter the 2 yrs with the 15 triples each year still amazes me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 If the Hall is just interested in stats and only stats, than probably not. Although he did accumulate a nice level of stats. I believe the Hall should be interested in the overall impact the person had on the sport. I believe the worse moments in baseball resulted from a lack of character and respect for the game. (From Black Sox to steroids) Harold's character and professionalism place him head and shoulders above 99% of the players already enshrined. Making baseball a better institution as a professional and as a human should count. We talk about intangibles and Baines has HoF intangibles. If all you are interested in is having a Hall of Stats, then no. If you want a Hall of Fame, than hell yes. Having players in the hall that pissed on the sport seems as wrong as leaving out Baines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Sad really, a few years using steroids and Baines would have been much closer to making it. The stats folks would be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Interesting that two people think he WILL make it. Other OF's like Dale Murphy and Andre Dawson were more dominant in their times, and they keep not getting in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I can't believe that Andre Dawson isn't in yet. That is just wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunk23 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 QUOTE (1977 sox fan @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 03:36 AM) but Rice was more feared as a hitter i remember watching games and when rice step to the plate you got nervous i can't say that for Baines The only reason people would be worried about Rice at the plate would be GIDP. Led the league in 4 seasons, career avg of 24 a season. He has something like 3 of the top 5 total GIDP seasons. This whole "most feared" thing is completely made up by his PR campaign. I will repeat this. He was intentionally walked 77 times over his career. This is good for 49th overall for that time period. You would expect the most feared hitter of his time to be a little higher on that list, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 11:08 AM) I can't believe that Andre Dawson isn't in yet. That is just wrong. Every year when the vote comes up I always get pissed off and disappointed because of Dawson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 10:22 AM) Interesting that two people think he WILL make it. Other OF's like Dale Murphy and Andre Dawson were more dominant in their times, and they keep not getting in. I said he would not, but the more I think about it, he has a veteran's pick feel to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Baines is Hall of Fame worthy he has the most hits of ANY player not in the HOF, he is top 40 in alot of other catagories. He will not get in because HB was never a look at me guy and was a great pro! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba43 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 QUOTE (chunk23 @ Nov 26, 2009 -> 02:31 AM) The only reason people would be worried about Rice at the plate would be GIDP. Led the league in 4 seasons, career avg of 24 a season. He has something like 3 of the top 5 total GIDP seasons. This whole "most feared" thing is completely made up by his PR campaign. I will repeat this. He was intentionally walked 77 times over his career. This is good for 49th overall for that time period. You would expect the most feared hitter of his time to be a little higher on that list, right? well if you look at the red sox lineup most years they had pretty good hitters hitting in front and behind him also most teams in the 70's and 80's didn't intentionally walk players thats more of today's game well baines best year doesn't compare to any of rices best 5 years most of rice's stats are over a 14yr career his first and last season he didn't play much and baines played basically 21yrs i didn' count his last yr also . anyway we can go back and forth on stats all day but at the time when both were in there prime who would you rather have in your lineup ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba43 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 QUOTE (chunk23 @ Nov 26, 2009 -> 02:31 AM) The only reason people would be worried about Rice at the plate would be GIDP. Led the league in 4 seasons, career avg of 24 a season. He has something like 3 of the top 5 total GIDP seasons. This whole "most feared" thing is completely made up by his PR campaign. I will repeat this. He was intentionally walked 77 times over his career. This is good for 49th overall for that time period. You would expect the most feared hitter of his time to be a little higher on that list, right? did you ever watch rice play ? well i did many times in old Comiskey and when he came up with men on the place went silent yeah he hit into double plays later in his career he struck out to what Harold didn't if rice stayed healthy and played another 6 years to equal baines in years played he wouldn't hit 500 hrs and had 3000 hits . I AM not a big fan of rice but he was a very good player baines was good to and like rice if health wasn't a factor he would had put up better numbers but more importantly he would have played the field and would be in the H.O.F . I am not sure rice should be in the hall but if it came down to him or Harold i would have to pick JIMBO . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 the answer is no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBatterz Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Clearly one of my all-time favorite players and while he had many solid seasons and a long productive career, I never really thought I was watching one of the all-time greats when I watched him play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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