Is anyone as nervous as I am?

[Balta1701]

I think that Rios was almost a desperation move. I realize that our CF situation is somewhat unique, but paying a guy over $60M to sport a .770 OPS and play above-average defense in CF seems like a move that's going to bite us in the rear. Maybe I'm wrong (and Kenny has certainly earned the benefit of the doubt), but this seems like an uncharacteristically bad move by KW. I hope that I'm proven wrong next year.

If, hypothetically, Alex Rios put up a .770 OPS next season, that'd still be a major jump from what our CF's have put up since 2006. As such, that's still worth paying a premium for given that it's been a hole in our roster for 3+ years. BUT...also, expecting Alex Rios to put up a .770 OPS next next season also ignores the fact that while playing in a pitcher's park, his OPS the 3 seasions previous to last were .798, .852, .865. Thus...there are lots of reasons to believe he'll do better than .770, and if all he does is .770 in this ballpark that's a good reason to fire greg walker. Furthermore, on top of whatever OPS he does give you, he's probably good for 20-30 steals at a solid 80%+ clip.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I'm just glad somebody posted something negative about our chances of being better than .500, which right now are not good.

I was thinking that everybody has been way too optimistic of our chances just because of starting pitching.

I am hoping KW has a plan. It's obvious he wants better defense with the acquisition of Omar and Rios. I agree we don't have the bats to win anything of significance, even our division, but hey, the offseason hopefully has just begun for KW.

I think right now was are at best six or seven games over .500 and at worst six or seven under again. That's if we start the season today.

 

 

why not be optimistic??? we have 4 guys on offense that i think have a legit chance at being all stars in TCQ, gordo, Rios, and lexi....i think everyone is thinking rios is some horrible hitter because he didnt perform well after we got him. the guy is a stud and i will stand by that until he proves me otherwise over a whole year.

[Balta1701]

why not be optimistic???

The best reason for pessimism right now is that we have 2 glaring holes in our lineup, corner OF and DH, and we really need another LOOGY. I think, though, if you get those positions filled with at least average players...we're in good shape. I can understand pessimism right now though, looking at a lineup where Kotsay is the RF and Flowers is the DH.

[Balta1701]

And we lost Dye and Thome. Two integral pieces to our offense.

One more point I want to make here...yes, we lost JD...but let's look waht we lost with JD. Last year, he put up a solid 1st half but was Brian Anderson like in teh 2nd half with the bat. JD put up a .793 OPS and 103 OPS+ for the season. Those numbers are decidedly average. That's also 2 out of teh last 3 seasons where his OPS has hung around .800. On top of that, JD isn't exactly a defensive specialist any more. Basically, if you can replace JD with a RF who can give you an .800 OPS but better defense, then you've actually upgraded the team.

[The Ginger Kid]

i think we should trade with the yankees for that third baseman of theirs - saw him in the series and i like the cut of his jib.

[Balta1701]

i think we should trade with the yankees for that third baseman of theirs - saw him in the series and i like the cut of his jib.

I think we should leave him and his contract with the Yankees but go after his supplier. That guy's more important and has got to come cheaper.

[chetkincaid]

i think we should trade with the yankees for that third baseman of theirs - saw him in the series and i like the cut of his jib.

 

 

He's friends with Jay-Z. I wanna punch both of them in the face whenever I hear that EMPIRE STATE OF MIND song.

 

Alicia Keys is fine as hell though....

 

I wanna play that stupid song at the Cell when we boot them out of the playoffs in 2010..

 

 

Okay my senseless rant is now over...

[The Ginger Kid]

I think we should leave him and his contract with the Yankees but go after his supplier. That guy's more important and has got to come cheaper.

hmm...not a bad thought. Or, we could just go after Jeter and move Lexi back to 2b.

[WCSox]

If, hypothetically, Alex Rios put up a .770 OPS next season, that'd still be a major jump from what our CF's have put up since 2006. As such, that's still worth paying a premium for given that it's been a hole in our roster for 3+ years. BUT...also, expecting Alex Rios to put up a .770 OPS next next season also ignores the fact that while playing in a pitcher's park, his OPS the 3 seasions previous to last were .798, .852, .865. Thus...there are lots of reasons to believe he'll do better than .770, and if all he does is .770 in this ballpark that's a good reason to fire greg walker. Furthermore, on top of whatever OPS he does give you, he's probably good for 20-30 steals at a solid 80%+ clip.

 

Of course, all of this assumes that he has his head screwed on straight he's giving 100% effort after the mega-contract that Ricciardi gave him. Perhaps the way that he crapped his pants in Chicago this summer rubbed me the wrong way, but many in Toronto seemed to believe that he cared more about his nightlife than his game after he got that deal. I completely agree that he has the tools to be a regular .850 OPS player with 30 SBs per season. But whether or not he'll reach that potential is debatable, as his OPS has dropped dramatically over the past two seasons. I suppose that some of this can be attributed to the fact that the Jays clubhouse has been a grease fire for the past few seasons. But given that our own team appeared to literally quit in the middle of a division race back in August, I'm not confident that our clubhouse culture is going to motivate him to play at that level again.

 

I'm hoping for the best but, man, I just don't feel good about this guy.

 

[witesoxfan]

hmm...not a bad thought. Or, we could just go after Jeter and move Lexi back to 2b.

 

or move Jeter to 3B because he is not good defensively

[Balta1701]

or move Jeter to 3B because he is not good defensively

UZR and a lot of people's eyes say that he had actually a decent defensive year there. Not a gold glove, but actually above average.

[witesoxfan]

UZR and a lot of people's eyes say that he had actually a decent defensive year there. Not a gold glove, but actually above average.

 

That doesn't mean it's going to happen again next year. History suggests it won't.

[Balta1701]

That doesn't mean it's going to happen again next year. History suggests it won't.

True, but you can't say "He's not good defensively" right now about Jeter and not expect that challenge.

[simba43]

Everyone is giving me a hard time about this thread..But I realized you guys are all being just as irrational as you say that I am. This White Sox team is mediocre. And we lost Dye and Thome. Two integral pieces to our offense. Look at the phillies. Look at the yankees. Look at the Red Sox. The cardinals. the angels. the dodgers..we wouldn't be able to compete with any of these teams..the list goes on and on....you guys are forgetting what city we live in.....it's not like we live in milwaukee....we live in a major city with fans who will come to the games if you put a great team on the field. The White Sox only fill up the ballpark when they're good, or when the cubs, yanks or red sox come to town. I think it's sad to see all of you accept mediocrity. Kenny Williams is a win now guy....but he is getting way to fancy....if the world series was really the goal...would reinsdorf have said that jake peavy is our FA signing?

I for one agree with you we have a very mediocre team the Twins are better then we are look at there lineup there bullpen is better our starters are not that much better then there's. also KW said there would be major changes to our lineup from last year he said that long after we got Rios . So adding Teahen visquel are major changes ? most of you here are kidding your self's if you think this team will easily win the central . also i think a lot of you here are over valuing our starting pitchers there good not great . Oh one more thing last year we lead the league in quality starts i believe it was 96 or 97 but we only won 79 games if you look at some of those quality starts you will see us after 6inns behind 3-0 3-1 4-0 5-1 because of a couple of unearned runs and there's the games we were up 2-1 3-1 and lost and why ? Because we can't score runs how many games did we comeback after 7inns and won ? teams like the yankees red sox phillies did it again and again hell the tigers did it alot also as did the Twins . Unless we add 1 or 2 real good hitters we will see the same as last year we had the 2nd best team era in the american league but we also gave up 65 unearned runs the most in the american league . Maybe our defense will be better and we won't give up that many unearned runs but even with that i feel our offense as of now isn't any better maybe it is worst then last year . If we are really trying to win now then i would think we would spend more money and add real impact players to this team if were not then its all talk and this team will be the same as last year losing series to teams like oakland baltimore cleveland and kansas city and then we will here Ozzie rant and rave and KW telling us about the major changes he is going to make . SO lets see what happens if by spring training we have added 2 or 3 good players and 2 of those being solid hitters then i will believe there trying to win now .

[Kalapse]

It's November f***ing 24th, nothing has even happened yet.

[simba43]

like the one guy was saying we in Chicago were a big market i don't see why our payroll can't be in the 115 to 120 range if the team wins they fill the stadium . The Twins payroll will be about 100mil after they extend Mauer the tigers is 125 mil there problem is they have a lot of dead money paying guys who are not playing but after 2010 2011 all that will be off there books . So in a year we will be in a dog fight with those 2 teams and to be honest i believe winning our division will be harder then people want to believe . The Twins moving to a outside stadium will only make them better in the long run because they will be better on the road better playing on grass fields so don't think because there moving outside that team will be bad if anything they will be better overall .

[Kyyle23]

like the one guy was saying we in Chicago were a big market i don't see why our payroll can't be in the 115 to 120 range if the team wins they fill the stadium . The Twins payroll will be about 100mil after they extend Mauer the tigers is 125 mil there problem is they have a lot of dead money paying guys who are not playing but after 2010 2011 all that will be off there books . So in a year we will be in a dog fight with those 2 teams and to be honest i believe winning our division will be harder then people want to believe . The Twins moving to a outside stadium will only make them better in the long run because they will be better on the road better playing on grass fields so don't think because there moving outside that team will be bad if anything they will be better overall .

 

filling the stadium is but one part of the equation.

Edited November 25, 2009 by KyYlE23

[knightni]

The Sox only get about 1/3 of the baseball pie in Chicago.

 

 

[Balta1701]

The Twins payroll will be about 100mil after they extend Mauer

The Twins payroll in 2009 was $65 million.

[simba43]

The Twins payroll in 2009 was $65 million.

they already spent on cuddyer plus they will try to extend hardy and still have 3rd possibly 2nd base to fill and there's talk to adding another starter so thats atleast another 15mil combine for 3 to 4 spots on there roster MAUER will cost a min of 20mil even at a home discount so thats around 100mil even its 95mil thats what were spending and we don't have a mauer or morneu in our lineup there also spending 11mil on nathen . but remember there a small market what is Chicago ?

[simba43]

The Sox only get about 1/3 of the baseball pie in Chicago.

WELL that can change

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

like the one guy was saying we in Chicago were a big market i don't see why our payroll can't be in the 115 to 120 range if the team wins they fill the stadium . The Twins payroll will be about 100mil after they extend Mauer the tigers is 125 mil there problem is they have a lot of dead money paying guys who are not playing but after 2010 2011 all that will be off there books . So in a year we will be in a dog fight with those 2 teams and to be honest i believe winning our division will be harder then people want to believe . The Twins moving to a outside stadium will only make them better in the long run because they will be better on the road better playing on grass fields so don't think because there moving outside that team will be bad if anything they will be better overall .

I agree 100%, but that's down the road. If the Sox put together the right core and they win for a couple consecutive seasons while filling the park, the payroll will reach that, and it's even conceivable that we could hang around that point consistently for several years. The key is to keep talent coming up through the farm so that we can make trades for cheap stars and bring up pre-arb talent when we need to.

 

The AL Central has only had a couple brief periods since its creation in 1994 where you could have called it the best division in the AL: 1994, 2000, 2005, and 2006. The Indians had a few great teams in a weak division, but the strongest period for the division was 2005-2007 (Sox, Indians, Twins, Tigers). Aside from 1994 and that 3 year period it has been pretty weak, so a higher payroll should work out pretty nicely for us if we could reach it and sustain it.

[southsider2k5]

they already spent on cuddyer plus they will try to extend hardy and still have 3rd possibly 2nd base to fill and there's talk to adding another starter so thats atleast another 15mil combine for 3 to 4 spots on there roster MAUER will cost a min of 20mil even at a home discount so thats around 100mil even its 95mil thats what were spending and we don't have a mauer or morneu in our lineup there also spending 11mil on nathen . but remember there a small market what is Chicago ?

 

The Twins are also about to get a ginormous shot in the arm through 10's of millions of dollars in new revenue through their own stadium for the first time in their existence.

[elgonzo4sox]

The Twins are also about to get a ginormous shot in the arm through 10's of millions of dollars in new revenue through their own stadium for the first time in their existence.

 

Yes, but this could very well be a one-time occurrence due to the shiny new stadium and the lust for outdoor baseball. After some cold rainy/snowy April games against the Royals, the new stadium buzz will fade. Then the Twins will realize why they build a covered stadium 28 years ago and why they should have built a retractable roof over Target Field. They will also realize that they gave up the best home field advantage in baseball, and have to completely retool their team. Goodbye Punto - you are an artificial turf aberration - maybe you can find a spot on the Rays or Blue Jays.

 

Minneapolis is a smaller, less wealthy city than Chicago, and once they eliminate the Twinkiedome advantage, the Twins should resemble the Royals more than the White Sox. OK, maybe that's a little harsh, but there will be no fundamental reason why Minneapolis should have an advantage in the AL Central.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Yes, but this could very well be a one-time occurrence due to the shiny new stadium and the lust for outdoor baseball. After some cold rainy/snowy April games against the Royals, the new stadium buzz will fade. Then the Twins will realize why they build a covered stadium 28 years ago and why they should have built a retractable roof over Target Field. They will also realize that they gave up the best home field advantage in baseball, and have to completely retool their team. Goodbye Punto - you are an artificial turf aberration - maybe you can find a spot on the Rays or Blue Jays.

 

Minneapolis is a smaller, less wealthy city than Chicago, and once they eliminate the Twinkiedome advantage, the Twins should resemble the Royals more than the White Sox. OK, maybe that's a little harsh, but there will be no fundamental reason why Minneapolis should have an advantage in the AL Central.

 

None of that changes the money that they have never seen from luxury suites and the amenities of a new place. And the big thing is that you don't sell an area on a new stadium, and then not bring back your superstars. You might as well contract the team at that poin.