The Procedural Filibuster

[Texsox]

Heard an interesting stat last night......in 2009 the filibuster was used more often than it was used in the 1950's and 1960's....combined. To quote the anchor, the republicans fit 20 years of obstructionism into 1. Pretty impressive.

 

It is a tool that is allowed in our government. I really have no problem with the GOPs using it.

[StrangeSox]

It's a tool that's been morphed into breaking the way our government is established by requiring a super-majority to pass anything the minority party doesn't like.

[StrangeSox]

The picture that's painted is that Republicans are the only one to pull this s***. Everything they do is "unprecedented". Uh huh.

 

Everything is bulls*** now. That's why we have a lunatic in the White House after a lunatic just left. And I don't ever see that cycle breaking because all the good people that might be worthy stay out of it for the exact questions you ask above.

 

Please, just drop the "Everyone is equally evil and bad" bulls***. It simply isn't true, especially in this case.

[kapkomet]

Please, just drop the "Everyone is equally evil and bad" bulls***. It simply isn't true, especially in this case.

 

 

Yep. See? The Democrats are okay, the Republicans are "more bad".

[Balta1701]

It is a tool that is allowed in our government. I really have no problem with the GOPs using it.

So would you also have no problem with the Democrats using the "Nuclear option" to end the filibuster?

[Balta1701]

Senator Shelby shuts down the Senate until he gets his earmarks. Thankfully, I'm sure he'll be called on this by all the people screaming about how bad the deficit is.

Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL) has put an extraordinary "blanket hold" on at least 70 nominations President Obama has sent to the Senate, according to multiple reports this evening. The hold means no nominations can move forward unless Senate Democrats can secure a 60-member cloture vote to break it, or until Shelby lifts the hold.

 

"While holds are frequent," CongressDaily's Dan Friedman and Megan Scully report (sub. req.), "Senate aides said a blanket hold represents a far more aggressive use of the power than is normal." The magazine reported aides to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid were the source of the news about Shelby's blanket hold.

 

...

According to the report, Shelby is holding Obama's nominees hostage until a pair of lucrative programs that would send billions in taxpayer dollars to his home state get back on track. The two programs Shelby wants to move forward or else:

 

- A $40 billion contract to build air-to-air refueling tankers. From CongressDaily: "Northrop/EADS team would build the planes in Mobile, Ala., but has threatened to pull out of the competition unless the Air Force makes changes to a draft request for proposals." Federal Times offers more details on the tanker deal, and also confirms its connection to the hold.

 

- An improvised explosive device testing lab for the FBI. From CongressDaily: "[shelby] is frustrated that the Obama administration won't build" the center, which Shelby earmarked $45 million for in 2008. The center is due to be based "at the Army's Redstone Arsenal."

[Rex Kickass]

The problem is you cannot separate the public option from a legislative question. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. GOVERNMENT (Aka, the LEGISLATIVE BODY) is the one imposting the rules.

 

You claim this is a Center Right country, but I show you a poll released yesterday that says that 60% of Colorado (which is not a particularly liberal or conservative state) supports a medicare buy in.

 

But that's ok, keep moving those goalposts.

[NorthSideSox72]

LOL @ Center Right country. That makes no sense - the center of the country is the center of the country. Being center-right means, by nature, you are right of the center for the country.

 

And I don't think the politcal center of the country has moved at all. For that matter, I don't think the Dems have moved either - but I am quite sure that a substantial piece of the GOP leadership has moved decidedly right in the past 15 years or so.

 

[kapkomet]

You claim this is a Center Right country, but I show you a poll released yesterday that says that 60% of Colorado (which is not a particularly liberal or conservative state) supports a medicare buy in.

 

But that's ok, keep moving those goalposts.

 

 

LOL @ Center Right country. That makes no sense - the center of the country is the center of the country. Being center-right means, by nature, you are right of the center for the country.

 

And I don't think the politcal center of the country has moved at all. For that matter, I don't think the Dems have moved either - but I am quite sure that a substantial piece of the GOP leadership has moved decidedly right in the past 15 years or so.

 

Yea, ok. Where's that ostrich smilie?

 

On a continuum, this country is more conservative in their values then liberal.

 

It's ok, though. You all explaining that the (especially top) Democrat party hasn't moved left at all explains volumes. Yet, leadership can't quite seem to get their s*** passed through. I wonder why that is? It couldn't be that voters don't want the bulls*** that they are trying to force us down, could it?

[Balta1701]

It's ok, though. You all explaining that the (especially top) Democrat party hasn't moved left at all explains volumes. Yet, leadership can't quite seem to get their s*** passed through. I wonder why that is? It couldn't be that voters don't want the bulls*** that they are trying to force us down, could it?

Or it could be because one party has been allowed to totally break 1 of the 2 houses of Congress and wasn't called on it at all by the media.

[NorthSideSox72]

Yea, ok. Where's that ostrich smilie?

 

On a continuum, this country is more conservative in their values then liberal.

 

It's ok, though. You all explaining that the (especially top) Democrat party hasn't moved left at all explains volumes. Yet, leadership can't quite seem to get their s*** passed through. I wonder why that is? It couldn't be that voters don't want the bulls*** that they are trying to force us down, could it?

As we've shown you time and again, clearly, no - that is not the issue. I don't know why this isn't obvious, because it seems to much so to me... The Dems are disorganized, and generally corrupt (not necessarily LEGALLY so, I'm talking about earmarks and other budget fattening B.S.), and can't get a policy mandate within their own party. They choose to have a bigger tent, and they clearly do, but the disadvantage is that its difficult to build concensus. The GOP on the other hand, is much more organized and lock-step, but they have in the last 15 years chosen to be lock step with values far to the right of center.

 

So, this is why the Dems can't get s*** done, and further, why the GOP congress couldn't get s*** done in their last few terms either. One party is disorganized, politcally diverse, and corrupt. The other is organized, too marginal politically for broad support, and corrupt.

 

[kapkomet]

As we've shown you time and again, clearly, no? Seriously?

 

Taking over of health care by our government is pretty radical (left). Taking over automotive industries is pretty radical (left). Taking over bank industry is pretty radical (left). Taking over pay for businesses in general is pretty radical (left). Taking over the tax structure because there's so much debt that no one will EVER be able to pay it is pretty radical (left). I'm sensing a pattern here........

 

Meanwhile, the MAJORITY of Americans don't like this s***. I'd say that makes them right of center. I'm not talking bat s*** crazy right like Pat Buchannan, but I'm saying that people don't want government intervention in their lives, regarding social or fiscal issues. The current clan of Democrats want the government to define nearly everything we do, including how much water we flush when we take a s***.

 

I simply can't understand why that concept doesn't resonate with you big liberals.

[Cknolls]

So would you also have no problem with the Democrats using the "Nuclear option" to end the filibuster?

 

 

Absolutely. Pass cap n tax, pass healthcare, pass card check. Can you say depression. Absof***inglutely. I dare themnm to do it!!!!!@

[southsider2k5]

Senator Shelby shuts down the Senate until he gets his earmarks. Thankfully, I'm sure he'll be called on this by all the people screaming about how bad the deficit is.

 

Thankfully the Democrats led the way on this to prove that it works.

[kapkomet]

Thankfully the Democrats led the way on this to prove that it works.

 

 

LIAR! Here's 75,246 liberal blogs that says you're wrong. You can't back up anything you say.

 

Or, are you saying that Republicans led the Democrats to lead the way on maybe, possibly, proving this might work someday? Therefore, it's the Republican's fault for taking something tried... right?

 

[Rex Kickass]

Thankfully the Democrats led the way on this to prove that it works.

 

Of course, they alllll do it. That makes it all ok!

 

Jesus, its wrong when anyone holds the entire Senate hostage for an earmark. I'm sorry that's so hard to understand.

[southsider2k5]

Of course, they alllll do it. That makes it all ok!

 

Jesus, its wrong when anyone holds the entire Senate hostage for an earmark. I'm sorry that's so hard to understand.

 

It's really not OK. But the manufactured outrage over something that has been going on a while now is a bit trite. The whole health bill got held up by a few Democrats looking for some goodies, and yet it turned into the Republicans killed the bill. Then one idiot takes it to the next level to get what he wants.

[NorthSideSox72]

As we've shown you time and again, clearly, no? Seriously?

 

Taking over of health care by our government is pretty radical (left). Taking over automotive industries is pretty radical (left). Taking over bank industry is pretty radical (left). Taking over pay for businesses in general is pretty radical (left). Taking over the tax structure because there's so much debt that no one will EVER be able to pay it is pretty radical (left). I'm sensing a pattern here........

 

Meanwhile, the MAJORITY of Americans don't like this s***. I'd say that makes them right of center. I'm not talking bat s*** crazy right like Pat Buchannan, but I'm saying that people don't want government intervention in their lives, regarding social or fiscal issues. The current clan of Democrats want the government to define nearly everything we do, including how much water we flush when we take a s***.

 

I simply can't understand why that concept doesn't resonate with you big liberals.

Of all the "radical" things you mentioned, only the Health Care bill didn't pass. Which sort of proves my point.

 

Also, look at the bolded in your post - you just basically said that people are centrist - they don't like too much spending (which tends them to the right), but also don't want social or personal freedoms taken away (which takes them left).

 

[NorthSideSox72]

It's really not OK. But the manufactured outrage over something that has been going on a while now is a bit trite. The whole health bill got held up by a few Democrats looking for some goodies, and yet it turned into the Republicans killed the bill. Then one idiot takes it to the next level to get what he wants.

Really, both things are true, not one or the other.

 

[Rex Kickass]

It's really not OK. But the manufactured outrage over something that has been going on a while now is a bit trite. The whole health bill got held up by a few Democrats looking for some goodies, and yet it turned into the Republicans killed the bill. Then one idiot takes it to the next level to get what he wants.

 

And I was pissed about the moderate Democrats who were holding out for a cut or so they could get the lobby money that they'll desperately need in a reelection effort (Nelson, Lieberman, Lincoln).

 

What bothers me most about this, is that Shelby is shutting down the Senate over two earmarks, and there doesn't appear to be a single one of the 40 other Republican senators that has a problem with this and is willing to cross over to stop his hold.

 

Frankly, I'm not outraged, I'm happy. This is classic overreaching. Just like Rep. Ryan's slash Social Security to balance the budget in 2050, and the Republicans saying no to EVERYTHING, even their own proposals - I'm starting to think the Republican wave has peaked. Pity its only February.

[Texsox]

So would you also have no problem with the Democrats using the "Nuclear option" to end the filibuster?

 

How many of the Gang of 14 are still around?

 

I would not for one two basic reasons.

 

It is within our country's rules. To be fair, I've supported whichever side wants to do everything legal to get their agenda passed.

 

I believe good and just representatives will either step up, as they did with the gang of 14, or voters will send a sharp message to those that operate in a manner they disagree with.

[StrangeSox]

As we've shown you time and again, clearly, no? Seriously?

 

Taking over of health care by our government is pretty radical (left). Taking over automotive industries is pretty radical (left). Taking over bank industry is pretty radical (left). Taking over pay for businesses in general is pretty radical (left). Taking over the tax structure because there's so much debt that no one will EVER be able to pay it is pretty radical (left). I'm sensing a pattern here........

 

 

Yes, it's the giant strawman you keep building in every argument.

[kapkomet]

Yes, it's the giant strawman you keep building in every argument.

 

 

NOW (WW) THERE (ERE) ARE (RE) THO (OSE) WHO (HOOO) MAY (AYY) DISAGREE (REEE) WITH (THHH) ME (EEEE) ...

 

Yea, those same damn strawmen that get built up on the other side.

[bmags]

this is pretty rich, douchebag senator from a douchebag state doing douchebag policies to get some douchebag projects becomes the democrats fault for completely unrelated reasons.

[lostfan]

this is pretty rich, douchebag senator from a douchebag state doing douchebag policies to get some douchebag projects becomes the democrats fault for completely unrelated reasons.

lol. Seriously. Anyone who argues in support of this for any reason is full of s***. Sorry. There's not any way around it or any other way of interpreting it.