White Sox Interested In Coco Crisp

[elrockinMT]

Based on what?

 

 

Arm strength and other reports on his fielding. Fast isn't everything in the field

[elrockinMT]

1.) Crisp is 30 years old, that's not over the hill.

2.) Do you honestly expect Crisp to hit .228 next year? If not then there's no reason to bring it up.

 

 

I thought you liked to argue? There are no guarantees with a fellow coming back of major shoulder problems other than he is cheap to sign

[Princess Dye]

Pods lacks the arm strength, but problem is he also is atrocious in all the other defensive categories.

 

 

 

Maybe they're just putting this rumor out there to get Pods' price down.

[Kalapse]

Arm strength and other reports on his fielding. Fast isn't everything in the field

What reports and since when does Podsednik have a good arm? Here's a report: 4.4/5.0 in reaction/instincts and 4.1 in hands. If you're going to talk about speed not being everything then you should apply it to Podsednik who gets by in the field strictly based on his speed alone.

[harfman77]

Arm strength and other reports on his fielding. Fast isn't everything in the field

 

Not everything, but it saves a lot of bases and allows less hits because the guy can get to the ball quicker. I still think that De Aza could hold the spot until June/July when Danks2 is ready, hopefully the Sox can find someone in the Rule V Draft that can contribute.

[Balta1701]

Depending on his medical reports...I wouldn't mind this type of move and I think it's exactly the sort KW is likely to do. It's a guy he's been linked to before, he's now going to be cheap, and he definately fills a need if he can return to form.

[Thad Bosley]

I think the uncertainty of the level of production we're going to get out of Carlos and Rios next year makes acquiring Crisp and his mediocre at-best offense a risky proposition.

[Kalapse]

I thought you liked to argue? There are no guarantees with a fellow coming back of major shoulder problems other than he is cheap to sign

Of course there are no guarantees, that's why he'll make next to nothing in guaranteed cash in 2010 and you give players physicals before you sign them. I'm not a fan of Crisp but I can see why they'd turn to him especially with Podsednik pricing himself out of town. There's also no guarantee that Podsednik puts up an OBP north of .340 next year or doesn't spend a significant amount of time on the DL after getting his money, he does have a reputation for that sort of thing.

 

You should be happy, this could easily be posturing on the Sox's side trying to get Podsednik to lower his demands.

[Princess Dye]

It's funny how some people seem more likely to forgive Pods several years of injury plagued awfulness, but wont apply the same optimism to the career of Coco, who is younger...and has been a lot more consistently decent over the years.

 

Coco fits the profile for a bounceback year. Pods toes the line of falling into a downward spiral due to age.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Princess Dye

[elrockinMT]

What reports and since when does Podsednik have a good arm? Here's a report: 4.4/5.0 in reaction/instincts and 4.1 in hands. If you're going to talk about speed not being everything then you should apply it to Podsednik who gets by in the field strictly based on his speed alone.

 

I am talking about Crisp and reports of a weak arm. I checked on their stats and don't see that much of a difference in fielding pct. Granted Pods arm is not that strong either. But side by side I don't see Crisp as an upgrade over Pods. Interpret the numbers anyway you want I guess.

[Thad Bosley]

It's funny how some people seem more likely to forgive Pods several years of injury plagued awfulness, but wont apply the same optimism to the career of Coco, who is younger...and has been a lot more consistently decent over the years.

 

Coco fits the profile for a bounceback year. Pods toes the line of falling into a downward spiral due to age.

 

Bounceback to what, though? Another year of a .340 OBP and 25 stolen bases? That's his usual level of production offensively, and certainly nothing to get too excited about.

[justBLAZE]

Not necessarily a power LH bat that we are looking for.

 

Not sure if he even makes a decent leadoff hitter.

[elrockinMT]

Bounceback to what, though? Another year of a .340 OBP and 25 stolen bases? That's his usual level of production offensively, and certainly nothing to get too excited about.

 

 

Fitting a profile is not the way to make sound financial baseball decisions. It's just too risky and I agree with Thad's post

Edited November 24, 2009 by elrockinMT

[Kalapse]

I am talking about Crisp and reports of a weak arm. I checked on their stats and don't see that much of a difference in fielding pct. Granted Pods arm is not that strong either. But side by side I don't see Crisp as an upgrade over Pods. Interpret the numbers anyway you want I guess.

That's because FLD% is worthless, it only takes into account errors, and unless you have a big, wild arm or just flatout drop flyballs you're not going to commit errors in the outfield. Crisp's career Outfield UZR/150 is 10.9, Podsednik's -1.8. Crisp in CF: 5.8, Podsednik: -5.6. So over 150 games Crisp will save you 11 runs and Podsednik will cost you 2, there's a big difference in the numbers and they both have bad arms.

[Princess Dye]

Bounceback to what, though? Another year of a .340 OBP and 25 stolen bases? That's his usual level of production offensively, and certainly nothing to get too excited about.

 

Thats the whole thing. And again I said earlier that neither player is my first choice.

 

But if you're talking about picking up Coco for a low one-year deal..versus caving to Pods high demands (rightly so he has to see this as a last ever chance at multiyear money)............. then I have to compare a guy who has routinely gotten .340 OBP versus a guy who is older and shown a far lower floor in recent years.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Princess Dye

[Balta1701]

Bounceback to what, though? Another year of a .340 OBP and 25 stolen bases? That's his usual level of production offensively, and certainly nothing to get too excited about.

My biggest quarrel with that statement is this; right now, we don't have anyone who can give us that production at the top of the order and we really could use it. Even if he's slightly below average with the bat, he'd fill a role if he could get back to that level.

[Kalapse]

Fitting a profile is not the way to make sound financial baseball decisions. It's just too risky

That's actually how you DO make sound financial baseball decisions. There's a good chance Crisp bounces back next season and puts up ok numbers with good defense at a very low price. Podsednik will likely put up similar numbers, is 4 years older, plays poor defense and will be more expensive and require a longer commitment. When you're banging up against your budgetary ceiling and have more than a few large holes to fill, you make gambles like this one rather than pay overpay for the older player who probably isn't any more of a sure thing.

[Princess Dye]

Also if you want to maximize your production from just the general area of "3rd best outfielder" on a given day...........you can platoon Crisp and Kotsay to an extent....whereas Pods/Kotsay both are lefties.

[elrockinMT]

That's because FLD% is worthless, it only takes into account errors, and unless you have a big, wild arm or just flatout drop flyballs you're not going to commit errors in the outfield. Crisp's career Outfield UZR/150 is 10.9, Podsednik's -1.8. Crisp in CF: 5.8, Podsednik: -5.6. So over 150 games Crisp will save you 11 runs and Podsednik will cost you 2, there's a big difference in the numbers and they both have bad arms.

 

 

I am not sure any stats that are used in these comparisons are all that valid. I find it interesting thought that you are willing to dismiss one set of fielding stats and accept another.

[Rowand44]

I am not sure any stats that are used in these comparisons are all that valid. I find it interesting thought that you are willing to dismiss one set of fielding stats and accept another.

Fielding percentage for an of is completely useless unless you have Soriano out there.

[elrockinMT]

That's actually how you DO make sound financial baseball decisions. There's a good chance Crisp bounces back next season and puts up ok numbers with good defense at a very low price. Podsednik will likely put up similar numbers, is 4 years older, plays poor defense and will be more expensive and require a longer commitment. When you're banging up against your budgetary ceiling and have more than a few large holes to fill, you make gambles like this one rather than pay overpay for the older player who probably isn't any more of a sure thing.

 

Supposition entirely. Pods did comeback and did very well for the Sox, but I am supposed to ignore that and count on Crisp coming back from injury?

[bear_brian]

I rarely post here, but after reading some of the anti-Crisp comments here, feel I need to add my thoughts to this discussion.

 

Crisp is an outstanding defensive outfielder - head and shoulders above Posednik. He is also a switch hitter, which can be a valuable commodity with all of Ozzie's lineup changes. Before he was hurt last year he had an OBP of .371 in April. He is not Ricky Henderson, but he is an experienced lead-off hitter who will probably hit somewhere between .250 to .270, steal 25 bases, hit a few home runs, lay down a few good bunts, and allow us wonderful outfield defense as well as flexibility. I see no downside with him - assuming the shoulders are healed. I cannot believe all of the bashing - BJ Upton is a real long-shot, Podsednik is not worth the money he is asking, etc. There are very few solutions out there to the combo of lead-off hitter and good defensive outfielder with speed. We do not want Beckham as a leadoff hitter - that is a waste of his talents.

 

All we need after Crisp is to sign Matsui as DH and look for one more relief pitcher. We would then be the team to beat in the central.

[YASNY]

A lot of the arguments I am seeing against signing Crisp, I saw when KW signed another injury plagued outfielder a few years ago. While they are different types of players, I think most would say that signing Jermaine Dye was a good thing.

[Kalapse]

I am not sure any stats that are used in these comparisons are all that valid. I find it interesting thought that you are willing to dismiss one set of fielding stats and accept another.

Explain to me how FLD% is a valid indicator of an outfielder's defensive ability.

[lostfan]

A lot of the arguments I am seeing against signing Crisp, I saw when KW signed another injury plagued outfielder a few years ago. While they are different types of players, I think most would say that signing Jermaine Dye was a good thing.

Cha-ching