BigSqwert Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 03:40 PM) So you're saying that a team with an average offense and a great pitching staff can't win a world series? Really? Didn't we just do that a few years ago? An average at best bullpen, one ace, and 3 good starters =/= great pitching staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I actually wonder if Crisp was the guy docsox was talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 04:41 PM) Anything can happen in the playoffs especially when you have incredible starting pitching. That '05 offense wasn't very good. Wasn't just about the playoffs that year. The team won 99 games, as you well know. This team could win with an offense similar to the one Balta posted a few minutes ago, but it would need to get a lot of help from the bullpen as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 01:41 PM) Anything can happen in the playoffs especially when you have incredible starting pitching. That '05 offense wasn't very good. In 2008, Tampa Bay had the #9 offense in the AL, for another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 01:43 PM) An average at best bullpen, one ace, and 3 good starters =/= great pitching staff. You and I disagree greatly about the definition of the number "3". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 03:45 PM) You and I disagree greatly about the definition of the number "3". You think Garcia will be a good starter? He hasn't pitched a full season in quite some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 03:45 PM) You and I disagree greatly about the definition of the number "3". ? I assume he meant peavy is the ace, buehrle, danks, and floyd are the 3 good starters, and garcia is garcia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 04:46 PM) You think Garcia will be a good starter? He hasn't pitched a full season in quite some time. Well our top 4 are already better than pretty much everyone in baseball at this point and we also have 2 pretty damn good candidates for the 5th starter, which not a lot of teams can say either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWhiteSoxinNJ Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I'll take Crisp only if we trade for A-Gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 03:48 PM) Well our top 4 are already better than pretty much everyone in baseball at this point and we also have 2 pretty damn good candidates for the 5th starter, which not a lot of teams can say either. Ya if he isn't traded, I pretty much see Hudson taking over in the second half for some odd reason and being very good for us, but that's another story/subject to talk about later. Man our future in the rotation is very, very bright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 01:46 PM) You think Garcia will be a good starter? He hasn't pitched a full season in quite some time. Garcia = 5, and he's well backed up by Hudson. Anyway...the top 4 is better than I see anyone in baseball having, on paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 03:52 PM) Garcia = 5. Peavy Perfect Game Floyd D1 Which of those 4 do you think is a weak point, such that you're only giving us 3 starters? Yeah, i could see any of them having issues, but on paper, that's as good as anyone in the league has. qwerty was right. I meant one ace (Peavy) and 3 good starters (perfect game, Floyd and D1). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 01:53 PM) qwerty was right. I meant one ace (Peavy) and 3 good starters (perfect game, Floyd and D1). Misread and edited. My fault. Anyway...point still stands. If guys just do what they should...that's as good of a rotation as there is in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) As long as it's a cheap, incentive laden short-term deal, I'm fine with it. This off-season is reminding me a lot of the 2005 off-season for some reason. Edited November 24, 2009 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 03:52 PM) Garcia = 5, and he's well backed up by Hudson. Anyway...the top 4 is better than I see anyone in baseball having, on paper. With Hudson returning and Hanson getting a full season in the majors I might take my chances with Atlanta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 02:13 PM) Is this the best we can do?? REALLY? CO CO CRISP?? .228 batting average?? Please NO! I hope we can do better... He was hurt and it was in 215 plate appearances. Crisp is a great defender (better than Rios in CF) and he can give you league average offense with some stolen bases at a cheap price. Why not? Edited November 24, 2009 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) I say all the following based on us apparently not willing to go out and get .400 OBP type guys this offseason. Hopefully that's wrong, but i'll proceed as if it's not. We then have to look at are options for increasing power. We have two open offensive positions...and it either comes down to getting A ) two power guys OR B ) a power guy and a classic leadoff man. I guess just in general I have a problem with bringing in a Pods OR a Coco. A .345 OBP singles hitter. Unless they were some kind of SB fiend. Call me crazy but I want Beckham setting the table and AJ/Quentin/Power guy 1/Power guy 2 immediately following. As part of my thinking I'm estimating homer wise what we'll be totaling up (considering how big a part of that our park will be) Beckham (20) AJP (15) Quentin (30) Power guy 1 (25) Power guy 2 (25) Konerko (25) Alexei (20) Rios (18) Teahan (15) Gets you up to nearly 200, which was what this franchise needed to have success year in year out. Then if these estimates are off by 25 or so, due to people underperforming, you're still a potent power team. If you sub out one of the power guys for Crisp, you then you are a few downyears away from being very average in the power department (in a park where you cant afford to be). Obviously HRs arent everything, but since we're apparently not willing to spend on .400 OBP guys, I have to think the Jack Cust's of the world (or Thomes) are what we're planning on using to fill the Power Guy spots. Edited November 24, 2009 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 QUOTE (chw42 @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 03:58 PM) He was hurt and it was in 215 plate appearances. Crisp is a great defender (better than Rios in CF) and he can give you league average offense with some stolen bases at a cheap price. Why not? funny how so many people want pods resigned. he most likely going to regress offensively and his defense and base running is awful. id definatley take a chance on crisp. i think its a great possibility since we need a leadoff hitter and kenny always gets his guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) I think we started having a little surge late last year when we moved AJP up in the order last year. No, our general OBP wasnt great.....but it took us too long to get the decent OBP guy up higher in the lineup. I wouldnt want to repeat that mistake. Get Gordon and AJP up there. Against lefties AJ can switch with AR...an approach we did for a little bit in 08. AJP is not your prototype 2-hitter, but in 08 it worked one way or another. Edited November 24, 2009 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 04:03 PM) funny how so many people want pods resigned. he most likely going to regress offensively and his defense and base running is awful. id definatley take a chance on crisp. i think its a great possibility since we need a leadoff hitter and kenny always gets his guy The chance of Pods re-producing what he did last year is very slim. Plus, Pods' defense and base running is terrible. That alone makes him much less valuable. Of course, there's always the possibility of Pods getting hurt. Signing Pods is as big of a risk as signing Crisp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Sox Interested in Coco Crisp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I used to like Crisp, but I'm not sure I'd be a big fan of this move, but ultimately, as you mentioned Mario, it depends on what Kenny does between signing Crisp and the end of the off-season. If Crisp is our 4th outfielder (along with Kotsay), its a pretty damn good move. Coco is a plus defensive outfielder who can handle CF and spell Rios in the case of an injury. Offensively, when he's healthy, he's a bit better than Pods and is and all around more versatile player than Scotty. If the Sox are looking at Crisp as the starter and leadoff hitter, I really can't support the idea. Crisp hasn't had an above average offensive season in years and asking him to be your leadoff hitter or top of the order threat would be as massive of a mistake as the Sox asking Wise to lead-off to open the 2009 season. So in short...if the Sox sign him to a 1yr 1-2M a year deal to be our backup outfielder and insurance option, fantastic. If it is to be a starter, no thanks. I should also point out the Sox claimed DeAza off of waivers from Florida, who also fits the role of a 4th/5th outfielder and would be cheaper, albeit less proven than Crisp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthsideDon48 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I actually wouldn't mind if the Sox got Coco. If we can get him for less than 8 million, prolly less than 5 million, then I'm all for it. Also, for those who keep saying Coco sucks because he had a .228 batting average last year: he got hurt in June, small sample size. Coco Crisp actually has the same career batting average as Scott Podsednik, .277. I'm willing to wager that if Coco plays next year that his average will be anywhere in-between .228 and .277. I'd be a little concerned about his shoulders, so I think I would prefer him playing left, Quentin in right, and Rios in center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 04:40 PM) I used to like Crisp, but I'm not sure I'd be a big fan of this move, but ultimately, as you mentioned Mario, it depends on what Kenny does between signing Crisp and the end of the off-season. If Crisp is our 4th outfielder (along with Kotsay), its a pretty damn good move. Coco is a plus defensive outfielder who can handle CF and spell Rios in the case of an injury. Offensively, when he's healthy, he's a bit better than Pods and is and all around more versatile player than Scotty. If the Sox are looking at Crisp as the starter and leadoff hitter, I really can't support the idea. Crisp hasn't had an above average offensive season in years and asking him to be your leadoff hitter or top of the order threat would be as massive of a mistake as the Sox asking Wise to lead-off to open the 2009 season. So in short...if the Sox sign him to a 1yr 1-2M a year deal to be our backup outfielder and insurance option, fantastic. If it is to be a starter, no thanks. I should also point out the Sox claimed DeAza off of waivers from Florida, who also fits the role of a 4th/5th outfielder and would be cheaper, albeit less proven than Crisp. I would have no problem with Coco playing CF and hitting lead-off if he could be had as cheaply as you're saying. Sox fans can talk about what they want in lead-off guys all they want, but you know we're going to have some fast guy at the top of the order again this year. Crisp at least is a solid hitter and a veteran, and adding his defense will help our pitching staff. At $1-2M guaranteed and without having to forfeit draft picks to sign him, I really don't see a huge risk here. The Sox have pretty much already stated that Figgins won't be a serious target because they can't afford him. ATM Crisp > Danks > De Aza > Pods (butcher due for a regression), and he's a much better lead-off option than what we started with last year in DeWayne Wise. I too would like someone better, but let's just be realistic. Our biggest need on offense is firepower and if we don't address that our offense is going to suck anyway. If we do, with our pitching, we can afford Crisp at lead-off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 04:03 PM) funny how so many people want pods resigned. he most likely going to regress offensively and his defense and base running is awful. id definatley take a chance on crisp. i think its a great possibility since we need a leadoff hitter and kenny always gets his guy I don't know if I've ever disagreed with anything you've ever said on this board. Love the av and sig too! I'm praying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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