White Sox Interested In Coco Crisp

[gatnom]

That's a gross over exaggeration. If all of those guys produce to what is expected of them, that's not a below average lineup.

 

While I agree with the bold part above, that's a fairly big leap to make. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Quentin was hampered to the point of ineffectiveness by injuries for the rest of his career. I wouldn't be surprised if Rios and Teahen continued to underperform either, and who knows how Crisp would even rebound from his surgeries. Even if you grant that some guys like AJ, Konerko, and Matsui/Thome won't decline from their previous seasons because you can really question whether anybody in baseball will be as good as they were last season, none of them are getting any younger. Konerko and Thome have already started to decline, and AJ is pretty much due for a regression anyways. If they all produce what is expected of them, they could be anywhere between average and above average depending upon your expectations, but there is just as good of a chance that they all implode than they all succeed.

Edited November 25, 2009 by gatnom

[beck72]

Getting a guy like Crisp makes all the sense in the world: he's affordable, he's versatile on defense; has has speed; can help manufacture runs; and has a much higher "floor" than an Anderson or Wise. While Crisp may not have the upside of Pods on offense, he brings a lot more to the defense by giving the sox options to move players around in the OF. Crisp isn't the answer to all the sox problems, and the sox still need more help on offense. And I'd much rather have him hitting near the bottom of the order. But I could see Crisp hitting #2 behind Beckham and in front of Q.

 

His signing wouldn't keep the sox from still upgrading the offense--esp. if a guy like Upton/ Gonzalez became available [ie their prices came down to an acceptable level]. And he wouldn't block Jordan Danks if Danks was ready to play in Chicago in 2010.

Edited November 25, 2009 by beck72

[balfanman]

I just wonder why we all assume Crisp will be good defensively. Surgery on both shoulders for a guy already not known for a gun?Ranger's point is well taken IF everybody hits like they are capable we might be OK. Big if, but it's possible the lineup might score some runs. I wish they'd sign Thome and get that taken care of.

 

This makes a lot of sense to me, the bolded part. I trust that K. W. and his staff are doing their "due dilligence" prior to signing someone coming off of an injury. I kind of like the Crisp of old. I know absolutely nothing about what Crisp is like today.

Edited November 25, 2009 by balfanman

[macsandz]

"I am not so certain Crisp is that much better in the field"

 

Whatever baseball credibility you had is now gone.

[macsandz]

It's funny how some people seem more likely to forgive Pods several years of injury plagued awfulness, but wont apply the same optimism to the career of Coco, who is younger...and has been a lot more consistently decent over the years.

 

Coco fits the profile for a bounceback year. Pods toes the line of falling into a downward spiral due to age.

 

Great post. I agree completely. Crisp is an absolute upgrade over Pods and will cost less.

[macsandz]

Bounceback to what, though? Another year of a .340 OBP and 25 stolen bases? That's his usual level of production offensively, and certainly nothing to get too excited about.

 

Add to that plus defense in CF and I'll take that. He'd sign for probably $2-3M/incentive. That works for this team if they can't deal for Upton.

[macsandz]

I rarely post here, but after reading some of the anti-Crisp comments here, feel I need to add my thoughts to this discussion.

 

Crisp is an outstanding defensive outfielder - head and shoulders above Posednik. He is also a switch hitter, which can be a valuable commodity with all of Ozzie's lineup changes. Before he was hurt last year he had an OBP of .371 in April. He is not Ricky Henderson, but he is an experienced lead-off hitter who will probably hit somewhere between .250 to .270, steal 25 bases, hit a few home runs, lay down a few good bunts, and allow us wonderful outfield defense as well as flexibility. I see no downside with him - assuming the shoulders are healed. I cannot believe all of the bashing - BJ Upton is a real long-shot, Podsednik is not worth the money he is asking, etc. There are very few solutions out there to the combo of lead-off hitter and good defensive outfielder with speed. We do not want Beckham as a leadoff hitter - that is a waste of his talents.

 

All we need after Crisp is to sign Matsui as DH and look for one more relief pitcher. We would then be the team to beat in the central.

 

Nicely done here, bb.

[Kyyle23]

Whatever baseball credibility you had is now gone.

 

Look, you havent been here very long and posts like these from you seem to be the norm, stop with the condescending remarks.

[macsandz]

Agreed, Crisp is no JD.

 

They had about the same production in the 2nd half last year, and Crisp was out for the season.

[Texsox]

Whatever baseball credibility you had is now gone.

 

And with your posts, so far, you never had any, and insist on digging deeper. Try gaining some credibility before knocking others.

 

Coco or Pods? Pick one, it really will not matter. When the one that is here falters, and either one will, the board will cry for the other. Generally speaking, and all things being about equal, I prefer the player *not* coming off surgery. This may be one of the decisions that will, and probably should, be financial.

 

OMG did I say that? Y'all are rubbing off on me.

[macsandz]

Look, you havent been here very long and posts like these from you seem to be the norm, stop with the condescending remarks.

 

I support good posts all the time. Lighten up.

[RockRaines]

How many season tickets is this line up going to sell? I wouldn't even be sure that this would win the AL Central... and I KNOW it wouldn't win the World Series. What is there to fear in this line up? CC Sabathia or Josh Beckett would be salivating against this.

1.PODS

2.Iguchi

3. Everett

4. Konerko

5. Dye

6. AJP

7. Crede

8. Rowand

9. Uribe

 

 

Not even sure if that was the lineup, but I'm sure it didnt scare many people either.

[lostfan]

I support good posts all the time. Lighten up.

Just do what he says, nod, and move along please, trust me.

[Texsox]

I support good posts all the time. Lighten up.

 

We will. Calling out other posts with 48 posts to your credit ain't cool. Being proven right calls em out more effectively and makes for better reading. And for a little help . . .

This post has been edited by the Soxtalk staff to remove objectionable material. Soxtalk encourages a free discussion between its members, but does not allow personal attacks, threats, graphic sexual material, nudity, or any other materials judged offensive by the Administrators and Moderators. Thank you.

 

 

/matter dropped as far as I am concerned.

[elrockinMT]

Whatever baseball credibility you had is now gone.

 

 

Listen Coco I have hit some fungos in my lifetime plus I also know something about shoulder surgeries

[elrockinMT]

Look, you havent been here very long and posts like these from you seem to be the norm, stop with the condescending remarks.

 

 

Thank you for saying that. I have to agree it really is not necessary to post stuff like that whether it is about me or someone else. We all have our opinions and have a right to post them, but not be insulting

[Harry Chappas]

Look, you havent been here very long and posts like these from you seem to be the norm, stop with the condescending remarks.

 

He has been here almost two years and it is a very valid point.

 

Crisp is exactly what this team needs. An actual MLB player. Some folks seem to think that the cub marketing free agent signings are the way to go. Peavy and Rios were this guys.

 

If the roster the way it is constructed now plays to their potential I think they are a lock for the central and will have a shot at the world series.

 

I stand by the statement that pitching and defense win games and last year the Sox tried to do it with pitching alone as their defense was terrible. Their bullpen pitched "hard" innings almost every game as the offense did nothing. I am liking the idea of getting guys that can hit .270/.280 and play good defense.

 

Crisp is a better player than Pods no doubt about it.

 

Also there are plenty of DH bats out there and the Sox will pick one up on the cheap later.

 

I also think Dotel and Dye are offered arbitration with Dotel coming back.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2009 by Jenks Heat

[Kyyle23]

He has been here almost two years and it is a very valid point.

 

 

Saying "you have lost all baseball credibility" is not a valid point. It is a condescending remark. The discussion about this is over.

[Chicago White Sox]

Crisp isn't a terrible option. He might give you a solid lead-off bat (like Podsednik might) and should play great defense in LF (unlike Podsednik). Considering how much we started Wise and Anderson at the beginning of last season, things could be far worse than signing Crisp. However, his addition would require us signing or trading for a legit DH, preferably one who is left-handed. We are at least one power hitter short as of now and it's critical for KW to get an above-average hitter to bat in the 3-4-5 range with Quentin and Konerko.

 

Also, I would hope KW would explore all options before settling on second-rate options like Crisp and Podsednik. A B.J. Upton trade would be very interesting if the price was right. If the Rays are concerned that his performance won't improve this year and believe now is the time to move him (before he gets expensive), then the cost might be reasonable. For the Sox, he makes relatively nothing this year, which would hopefully allow them to add a DH like Matsui. I think he's the one DH the Sox would likely pay a little extra for, since he should bring in additional revenue which would help offset some of his cost.

 

Imagine this lineup now:

 

1. B.J. Upton, CF

2. Gordon Beckham, SS

3. Carlos Quentin, LF

4. Hideki Matsui, DH

5. Paul Konerko, 1B

6. Alex Rios. RF

7. A.J. Pierzynski, C

8. Alexei Ramirez, SS

9. Mark Teahen, 3B

 

I know this is a pipe-dream, but I do think it is in the realm of possibility. Whatever happens this offseason, I just hope KW is creative when filling these last two spots in the lineup. While Crisp wouldn't be the worst option, I feel like KW can do better, especially with the amount of near-ML ready talent at his disposal.

[Chicago White Sox]

I also think Dotel and Dye are offered arbitration with Dotel coming back.

Neither player will be offered arbitration. KW got lucky with O-Cab last year. He's not going play that same game again, especially with two guys that seem like they'd want to come back.

[balfanman]

Neither player will be offered arbitration. KW got lucky with O-Cab last year. He's not going play that same game again, especially with two guys that seem like they'd want to come back.

 

I just don't think that you can be sure of that in Dotels case. The worst that happens is he accepts, and while it is a little more expensive than you would of hoped for, you at least have a competant option for a second set up man which we do not currently have.

[Kyyle23]

I just don't think that you can be sure of that in Dotels case. The worst that happens is he accepts, and while it is a little more expensive than you would of hoped for, you at least have a competant option for a second set up man which we do not currently have.

 

The problem is that Dotel is not worth what he is going to be offered in arbitration, which is why the Sox will not offer it.

[caulfield12]

I would much rather take a risk on a younger Crisp at one year for less than Pods for two (even if the numbers are similar to what W. Taveras got last year from the Reds).

 

Before the season started, I argued for adding Crisp and Blake, two former Indians. Crisp wouldn't have worked out because of his injury, but I still would have preferred Blake to what happened (and now to Teahen, but you can argue it, especially with Blake being more expensive). Then again, at the time, there was Josh Fields at 3B and I can't even remember if Viciedo was in the picture.

 

It seems there is serious consideration being given to improving the defense this offseason, with the notable exception of the Teahen move, although you could HOPE that Ramirez with one year under his belt and Beckham at 2B would lead to a better overall defense, especially with Rios now up the middle.

 

As far as the outfield, you'd have to play it Crisp in LF, Rios in CF and Quentin in RF to make it work, with Kotsay as the primary back-up and also taking some time from Konerko...De Aza, we'll see, I won't get excited about him until he actually makes the team.

 

Signing Matsui/Damon (whichever the Yankees let go) or Vladimir Guerrero would be the logical route for DH, but it seems we're about $5 million or so short in terms of being able to make a competitive bid for either, leading to the belief that Thome will come back, since his options are even more limited (not having a position) than Vlad the Impaler, Damon or Matsui.

 

It's an interesting question...if cutting Jenks lose would mean Vlad Guerrero or Hideki Matsui would be part of the 2010 White Sox, I'd have to give it serious consideration if I were KW. Unfortunately, it's not as easy as getting rid of Linebrink, because nobody would take him off our hands. Still, the possibility of Thornton as the closer doesn't overwhelm me, and moving Matt back weakens our pen even further.

Edited November 25, 2009 by caulfield12

[balfanman]

The problem is that Dotel is not worth what he is going to be offered in arbitration, which is why the Sox will not offer it.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with that. If they are thinking of trading Jenks that would leave a big hole in your bullpen that you would most likely wind up overpaying for someone anyway. I think that if your going to overpay someone Dotel is probably a better bet to have a good season than anybody else I've heard mentioned as available and you would still be paying Dotel less than what Jenks would make in arbitration. If Dotel doesn't accept than you have the draft picks. As always JMHO.

[caulfield12]

I don't necessarily disagree with that. If they are thinking of trading Jenks that would leave a big hole in your bullpen that you would most likely wind up overpaying for someone anyway. I think that if your going to overpay someone Dotel is probably a better bet to have a good season than anybody else I've heard mentioned as available and you would still be paying Dotel less than what Jenks would make in arbitration. If Dotel doesn't accept than you have the draft picks. As always JMHO.

 

 

They simply can't afford to bring back Dotel at $6 million (his salary last year), let alone the $6-7.5 million he would be sure to get in arbitration if the White Sox tried to cut his salary from down to $4.8 to $6.0 million. Dotel also has a horrific history of injuries going back to his Oakland and Houston days. I think we were relatively lucky to get what we got out of him...of course, not so with Linebrink, although you can argue Scott was one of the key reasons that we won the ALCD in 2008, based on his first four months of near perfection. An arbitrator would look at those seemingly wonderful numbers of OD's and end up giving him north of $7 million, almost the same as what Jenks will get.

 

We cut lose David Riske without making the offer, I'm 98% sure KW won't take the risk. In these market conditions, there's no team in baseball that will pay OD over $6 million per year to be a 7th inning pitcher. Sure, his stats are great on paper (like Javy Vazquez), but the reality is that he just can't do it in the 8th or 9th inning consistently.

 

We're also stuck with Linebrink and Pena (because KW won't cut him lose until at least mid-2010, if then), so Dotel is the logical choice to go, even if Jenks is also gone, Dotel can't be slotted into the 8th inning...just as I don't believe that Thornton would make much more than an average closer, at best. If you could make an argument that cutting Jenks lose and allocating that $7.5 million in savings to another player (DH/leadoff/OF) would happen, you'd have to at least consider it. The surprise performances of Iguchi, Pods, AJ, Hermanson, Dye, Vizcaino and El Duque (well, 3 outs and some decent stats before B-Mac showed up the last 6 weeks) would seem to argue that a combination of CoCo Crisp and 1-2 more players in that $2-3 million range (similar to what the Red Sox tried this past offseason with their bargain basement FA moves) just might work.

Edited November 25, 2009 by caulfield12