bmags Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 I'm typically underwhelmed with excitement for bench signings, Tex. I'm not sure we have an accurate measure for Jones defense. BUt he's probably better than Dye, I'd bet with one hamstring he'd be better than Dye. And he may still be good at D. Otherwise it's a power bat off the bench. For 500,000. I wouldn't really care all that much except for the fact that in 2 out of the last 3 years our bench was absolutely horrid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) He probably is a slight upgrade over Josh Fields offensively for slightly more money, but nothing that can't be eaten. I'm shocked the Sox signed a Boras guy in November and Boras took it at this time. I do agree he appears to have had some help putting up numbers in the past. If anything he could be exhibit A to Bobby Jenks about what happens to guys who don't take their fitness seriously. Its a blah signing. I'm looking forward to the real moves. I'm just curious as to why the Rangers didn't want to bring him back. Edited November 26, 2009 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) If all our scrap heap guys ( the recent signings, kotsay, rios and whatever future DH-man included) simultaneously turn the clock back some 5 years we'd be the Yankees In all seriousness though-- would help out greatly if just one of these guys had a nice bounceback year Edited November 26, 2009 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 05:50 PM) ..crisp would of been the leadoff hitter though Leads off once a game. If Crisp was a stud or at least could sustain a high OBP and high average, then I would have a slight hesitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 06:19 PM) He probably is a slight upgrade over Josh Fields offensively for slightly more money, but nothing that can't be eaten. I'm shocked the Sox signed a Boras guy in November and Boras took it at this time. I do agree he appears to have had some help putting up numbers in the past. If anything he could be exhibit A to Bobby Jenks about what happens to guys who don't take their fitness seriously. Its a blah signing. I'm looking forward to the real moves. I'm just curious as to why the Rangers didn't want to bring him back. LMAO, there is just no pleasing you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 06:39 PM) Leads off once a game. If Crisp was a stud or at least could sustain a high OBP and high average, then I would have a slight hesitation. leads off once a game -- always has to be followed with "at a time when building a lead greatly increases your % chance of winning the game overall" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 06:40 PM) LMAO, there is just no pleasing you LMAO who is complaining? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 06:39 PM) Leads off once a game. If Crisp was a stud or at least could sustain a high OBP and high average, then I would have a slight hesitation. then why all the talk about having a "leadoff" guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 06:45 PM) LMAO who is complaining? a "slight upgrade over Josh Fields" is a backhand slap to the face of Jones and you know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 To sign Crisp as the starting LFer, with Jones and Kotsay as your back-ups, that's not bad. That's assuming we get expected production from Rios and Quentin, 775-800 OPS from Rios and 875-925 for Quentin. If neither one of those eventualities occur, then we're in big trouble. Everyone would feel much better if we knew who our DH (Vlad. Guerrero, Damon/Matsui) and leadoff hitter would be. It's a lot easier to tolerate Crisp as the starter and leadoff guy with a quality DH in the fold...and for those imagining Jordan Danks playing CF in Chicago in 2010, that's about as close to happening as Viciedo playing 3B or DHing. Still, the bench is dramatically improved from 2008/09. Then again, we had, on paper at least, a very good bench coming into 2006 and look what happened, there are no guarantees (and that team went down the drain more due to the pitching hitting the wall, although the offense also faded and Jenks was battling injury problems as well, all 3 things hit simultaneously). As someone mentioned, Andruw Jones wouldn't be bad at all as a platoon DH against LHP if Thome was brought back. We can't compare Jones, even at this stage in his career, to playing Erstad, Mackowiak or Brian Daubach in CF. There have been questions about his age ever since the first time I saw him play for the Macon Braves in the mid 90's, nobody believed he was really 19 then either. He might actually be closer to 34-36. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 06:47 PM) then why all the talk about having a "leadoff" guy? Because he bats in front of your best hitters, that's why OBP at the top is so damn important, you need to get guys on base for your RBI men. The word "leadoff" refers to leading the top of your order, not batting first in an inning. That's why the phrase "he leads the inning once a game" is irrelevant, he's not batting at the top to get your inning going, he's there to kickoff the best part of your lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 06:19 PM) He probably is a slight upgrade over Josh Fields offensively for slightly more money, but nothing that can't be eaten. I'm shocked the Sox signed a Boras guy in November and Boras took it at this time. I do agree he appears to have had some help putting up numbers in the past. If anything he could be exhibit A to Bobby Jenks about what happens to guys who don't take their fitness seriously. Its a blah signing. I'm looking forward to the real moves. I'm just curious as to why the Rangers didn't want to bring him back. The Josh Fields of ST 2009 (he of the better vision and quick bat, and numerous doubles) MIGHT be comparable to the way Andruw Jones laced the ball the first half of the season. MAYBE. But, no matter how out of shape and malcontented and difficult Andruw Jones might be...even shaped like Richard Simmons, he can still patrol his position defensively as a back-up 10X better than Josh Fields could ever defend (I'll take that back, Josh made one nice play on Opening Day, 2009). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 06:58 PM) Because he bats in front of your best hitters, that's why OBP at the top is so damn important, you need to get guys on base for your RBI men. The word "leadoff" refers to leading the top of your order, not batting first in an inning. That's why the phrase "he leads the inning once a game" is irrelevant, he's not batting at the top to get your inning going, he's there to kickoff the best part of your lineup. i know,i was saying we need a leadoff hitter,that speed at the top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 07:01 PM) i know,i was saying we need a leadoff hitter,that speed at the top Speed be damned. Give me a guy with average foot speed and a .370 OBP and I'm golden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 06:55 PM) a "slight upgrade over Josh Fields" is a backhand slap to the face of Jones and you know it. Maybe you should check the numbers. The last 3 years he's 220 for 1062 a .207 AVG. with 46 homers and 286 strikeouts. Over the sam period, Fields was 149-644 with 30 homers and 218 strikeouts. Sorry he's not a huge upgrade. He's a slight upgrade, and that might be optimistic. I certainly wasn't complaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) Yea little risk, some reward potential, but I am just not that excited about signing guys whose prime was 5 years ago. That said it is not necessarily a 'bad' signing either given the low price. Just not excited, that's all. Edited November 26, 2009 by kwolf68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 07:06 PM) Maybe you should check the numbers. The last 3 years he's 220 for 1062 a .207 AVG. with 46 homers and 286 strikeouts. Over the sam period, Fields was 149-644 with 30 homers and 218 strikeouts. Sorry he's not a huge upgrade. He's a slight upgrade, and that might be optimistic. I certainly wasn't complaining. .338 wOBA last year from Jones. Fields put up a .336 in '07 and a .287 last season. Chances are you're getting an upgrade here. Even if you could get Jones's .317 from '07 that's a substantial upgrade from Fields. I don't think Andruw Jones is anywhere near as bad as he was in 2008, all his peripherals were way off from his career norms, those corrected last year and he produced nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) A theme of these recent posts has been how we're headed for a deep lineup with no one bat that is scary. Look at what we had '06: Absolutely scare-your-soul hitting from three guys. But we were as bad as our weakest links, of which there were several. Now in '05.......it was actually AJ's worst hitting year for us. Dye had power but underwhelming OBP. Really eight of our offensive positions had lower than .352 OBP. However.... almost all the hitters were at least decent. So in short I think I'm going against some of the other things I've said in this thread. Lets get back to being deep and see where it takes us. Sure we all want a big signing, but in a sense we had our expenditures with Peavy and Rios........and now it's time to fill two positions where there are a bevy of options out there (so let them all bid against each other).........and fortifying the bench is a great thing to do while we're waiting. Edited November 26, 2009 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 06:15 PM) I'm typically underwhelmed with excitement for bench signings, Tex. I'm not sure we have an accurate measure for Jones defense. BUt he's probably better than Dye, I'd bet with one hamstring he'd be better than Dye. And he may still be good at D. Otherwise it's a power bat off the bench. For 500,000. I wouldn't really care all that much except for the fact that in 2 out of the last 3 years our bench was absolutely horrid. Which was kind of my point, he is a defensive upgrade, and there aren't too many teams that can say that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 QUOTE (Tex @ Nov 26, 2009 -> 01:32 AM) Which was kind of my point, he is a defensive upgrade, and there aren't too many teams that can say that sorry tex, i'm not going to submit to your pity party while we still don't know who our R or LF will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YonderLaroche Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Jones is only 32... he was a great player a few years ago and can still hit for power/play good defense. He still is talented, just needs to get in shape and get his head in the game. I would take him over Dewayne Wise anyday... and u never know, Jones might be determined to bust his ass and get one more big payday. I think its a excellent signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 I think the big thing for Andruw is to get into better than Bartolo shape.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 09:29 PM) I think the big thing for Andruw is to get into better than Bartolo shape.... Honestly, I recall fairly well Andruw getting into phenomenal shape for the 2007 season, at the instruction of Boras, only to fall off huge in almost every offensive category. I'm not sure his conditioning is the cause of his decline... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Maybe he and Jenks will become workout buddies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) I don't recall but has he had any serious injuries like a knee or anything? Or possible Roider? Edited November 26, 2009 by EvilJester99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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