Barry Bonds

[dyuen]

i don't see a lot of other good ideas. as I said in the first sentence of my first post, I'm NOT for it. just throwing an interesting thought out there.

 

for all you know it alls, what's your answer to our DH/RF?

 

and another old guy came back and made a vikings team older... *

*i hate that man with all the hate in the world, even more than bonds, just for the record

That qb is 40 and never took actual time off during the season. Huge difference. But I do hate that guy too. I don't have an answer to our dh opening but I know it's not bonds

 

[longshot7]

wow. Nothing wrong with cheating? Your parents must be so proud! I can't wait until you hear that from your spouse.

 

So why do they have a rule book? Do you really believe the game would be better if they threw out the rule book? That is what you are advocating by stating that cheating is ok. That is about the silliest idea I've ever heard around here. It's OK to cheat? Crazy.

 

Well, it wouldn't be CHEATING it they threw out the rule book now, would it? Half the fun is breaking the rules just to break them.

 

I'm not going to stretch this metaphor as far as it's been stretched by others. All I'm saying is ends justify means. To win at sports, sometimes if it's necessary to cheat, it's justified. That's my opinion, and all I'm saying.

 

And congrats on being such a good driver, but that's not what I said. To see people harp on players trying to get a competitive edge while breaking the law in their own ways (speeding, cheating on taxes, stealing office supplies - even while not being caught) is hypocrisy. And I'd wager that 90% of Americans have cheated on SOMETHING in their life - and to blame people they don't know for something so trivial, it's just hypocrisy. Maybe this isn't you specifically, but if steroids bother someone THAT much, they should look at their own lives before casting stones.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Amen@longshot. I get sick of all this holier than thou crap. It's easy when you're not in the spotlight to tar and feather somebody like Bonds. People break the law in some way shape or form every minute of every day. We all have our skeletons. It's just we can keep them buried because we're not in the spotlight. I just smoked a blunt the size of Bartolo Colon's right titty. And that's illegal, obviously. How am I any different than Bonds?

[Texsox]

Well, it wouldn't be CHEATING it they threw out the rule book now, would it? Half the fun is breaking the rules just to break them.

 

I'm not going to stretch this metaphor as far as it's been stretched by others. All I'm saying is ends justify means. To win at sports, sometimes if it's necessary to cheat, it's justified. That's my opinion, and all I'm saying.

 

And congrats on being such a good driver, but that's not what I said. To see people harp on players trying to get a competitive edge while breaking the law in their own ways (speeding, cheating on taxes, stealing office supplies - even while not being caught) is hypocrisy. And I'd wager that 90% of Americans have cheated on SOMETHING in their life - and to blame people they don't know for something so trivial, it's just hypocrisy. Maybe this isn't you specifically, but if steroids bother someone THAT much, they should look at their own lives before casting stones.

 

I find it objectionable when the skill of the players takes a back seat to which team can cheat better. Perhaps you will enjoy sitting there seeing which team is better at cheating, I'd rather see which team is better at baseball. And baseball, like all sports, is defined by the rule book. I'd rather see the achievements and failures of men playing on a level playing field. To see which man or woman is better that day. Not who found a better way to cheat.

 

How special would Buehrle's perfect game be if we discovered he found a substance to rub on the ball that made it impossible to hit? How special would it be if we discovered the other team was paid to not get a base runner? You claim it would be fun. I pray that 100% of the rest of fans would not find it fun.

 

Your argument basically lumps driving a few miles over the limit, walking out of the office with a pen from work, with all other rules and law infractions. In other words zero tolerance for breaking the rules, but 100% acceptance. To claim that if you drive 5 miles over the limit it somehow then makes breaking every other rule ok, is silly. There is a difference between speeding five or ten over and reckless driving. There is a difference between taking a pen home from work and stealing a truck load of supplies from Office Depot. Believing that 80% of your trip expenses were deductible instead of 50% is different than not filing or working off the books. That is why we have a sliding scale of punishment. That is why vehicular manslaughter lands you in jail and speeding five over gets you a warning. That is why it is not hypocritical to believe that cheating is not OK.

 

The issue with steroids, which is different between corking a bat or throwing a spit ball, is there was no way to detect it on the field. At least with the others there was a chance that an observant ump could catch these guys. With steroids they could stand there with their artificially enlarged muscle mass, shrunk testicles, and big heads and the umps have no recourse. So even accepting your belief that a little cat and mouse between the umps and players is fun, this was not the case.

[Texsox]

I just smoked a blunt the size of Bartolo Colon's right titty. And that's illegal, obviously. How am I any different than Bonds?

Fortunately others in society figured it out for you. Even though you cannot see the difference between breaking two different laws, smarter people can. That is why murder may get you the death penalty and assault gets you a long jail sentence. That is why using drugs in baseball gets you a longer suspension than a fight. That is why arguing with an ump may get you thrown out of the game, hitting the ump gets you suspended. Different infractions yield different punishments based on the severity of the rule broken.

 

That is why you are different than Bonds. Or is it still unclear?

 

Holier than though to believe in rules? OK, then believing in breaking rules makes you what? I guess our prisons are full of non hypocrites.

[Dick Allen]

Some of the posts on this thread are hysterical. I wonder why no one sticks up for Sammy Sosa. Anyway, one post sarcastically said why not sign Albert Belle too, he's about Bonds' age. Actually, Albert is a couple years younger. He's Omar Vizquel's age. Bonds' is the same age as Ozzie Guillen. I think we all know there's a better chance the Sox payroll is higher than the Yankees' in 2010 than Barry Bonds ever becoming a White Sox. He's done. No one will touch him.

[MattZakrowski]

For me, it's not that I condone steroid use, but I do feel that the odds are that every team has guys that have done it. It's not the responsibility of the teams to blackball former juicers, but instead, it's up to the MLB as a whole to improve testing.

 

Also, I'm curious if people want us to release/trade Flowers due to his PED use.

[Dick Allen]

For me, it's not that I condone steroid use, but I do feel that the odds are that every team has guys that have done it. It's not the responsibility of the teams to blackball former juicers, but instead, it's up to the MLB as a whole to improve testing.

 

Also, I'm curious if people want us to release/trade Flowers due to his PED use.

Obviously there have been White Sox that have juiced. Some would be no surprise, some probably would stun us. It seems to me, and I'm sure its the same with every fanbase, other teams' juicers are cheats and scumbags, but when they are from your team or then come to your team, what they have done is really no different than jaywalking. But the fact that a 45 year old guy who will be 46 and who hasn't played in two years, and was an obvious juicer, has a thread this long with so many people in favor of signing him is rather bizarre.

[Texsox]

Some of you seem to be confused about the value that society places in rules. If you remember back to middle school and the preamble to the Constitution, the framers wrote to "establish justice". That was the early seeds of a system about rules. They were most likely hypocrites.

 

Later, after writing the Constitution, they began adding ten amendments; collectively calling them the Bill of Rights. Half of these, specifically the 4^th, 5^th, 6^th, 7^th and 8^th, are specific to our system of rules and how we will determine who breaks them and what the penalty will be. Again, these were probably crafted by people you will call hypocrites.

 

In the following 222 years, this system of enforcing our rules and punishing those that break them, have grown. A profession has risen that will interpret the rules for you, in case you cannot understand the differences. They are called lawyers, and you will find them in every phone book. Warning, many of these may be hypocrites as well. They can, for example, explain why being caught with an ounce of marijuana is not as serious as being caught with five kilos of marijuana. Amazingly, some people seem to think this should be treated the same or it would be hypocritical.

 

Now we even have entire buildings devoted to adjudicating the rules. These buildings, we call them courts, are filled with hypocrites. In fact, it would seem that the only part of the system that is not filled with hypocrites are the buildings we call prisons. There you will find people that cannot see the difference between breaking a minor rule and a major law. You will find those that believe it is fun to break rules there as well.

 

So yes, we are a nation of hypocrites who insist on enforcing some rules and not others. Of applying different punishments for different rules. Yes, at times, it may seem arbitrary. Moreover, some may find this holier than thou. For those people, perhaps a trip to the Barberry Coast and Somalia where there are no rules would be better. Far less hypocrisy to deal with.

[Texsox]

Quick question. If Bonds and the other players didn't think they were doing anything wrong, why did they hide it from their teammates? Why didn't one stand up and say, hey this isn't banned, so I'm taking steroids? Why didn't they just go to the team physician and ask for steroids?

[MattZakrowski]

Quick question. If Bonds and the other players didn't think they were doing anything wrong, why did they hide it from their teammates? Why didn't one stand up and say, hey this isn't banned, so I'm taking steroids? Why didn't they just go to the team physician and ask for steroids?

 

Because it would have had a negative impact on his life, in terms of earnings potential and marketing.

[mr_genius]

There is a 0% chance Reinsdorf would allow Barry Bonds to play for the White Sox.

[longshot7]

I find it objectionable when the skill of the players takes a back seat to which team can cheat better. Perhaps you will enjoy sitting there seeing which team is better at cheating, I'd rather see which team is better at baseball. And baseball, like all sports, is defined by the rule book. I'd rather see the achievements and failures of men playing on a level playing field. To see which man or woman is better that day. Not who found a better way to cheat.

 

How special would Buehrle's perfect game be if we discovered he found a substance to rub on the ball that made it impossible to hit? How special would it be if we discovered the other team was paid to not get a base runner? You claim it would be fun. I pray that 100% of the rest of fans would not find it fun.

 

Your argument basically lumps driving a few miles over the limit, walking out of the office with a pen from work, with all other rules and law infractions. In other words zero tolerance for breaking the rules, but 100% acceptance. To claim that if you drive 5 miles over the limit it somehow then makes breaking every other rule ok, is silly. There is a difference between speeding five or ten over and reckless driving. There is a difference between taking a pen home from work and stealing a truck load of supplies from Office Depot. Believing that 80% of your trip expenses were deductible instead of 50% is different than not filing or working off the books. That is why we have a sliding scale of punishment. That is why vehicular manslaughter lands you in jail and speeding five over gets you a warning. That is why it is not hypocritical to believe that cheating is not OK.

 

The issue with steroids, which is different between corking a bat or throwing a spit ball, is there was no way to detect it on the field. At least with the others there was a chance that an observant ump could catch these guys. With steroids they could stand there with their artificially enlarged muscle mass, shrunk testicles, and big heads and the umps have no recourse. So even accepting your belief that a little cat and mouse between the umps and players is fun, this was not the case.

 

I'm done with this argument, as there seems no point in going back and forth, but it bears mentioning-- technically it wasn't against the rules to do steroids for much of baseball's history. You talk about the sliding scale of wrongness - i equate roiding with stealing signs and speeding, not that bad in the scheme of things. You equate it wth manslaughter and the like. That's fine, but I'm not the one who cheered for these guys ten years ago and now wants their records removed. At least I've been consistent. Bring the steroids back as far as I'm concerned. All I care is wins, by any means necessary.

 

But we can agree to disagree as it's clear we're not going to convince each other.

[Balta1701]

Also, I'm curious if people want us to release/trade Flowers due to his PED use.

Frankly, it's the biggest mark against him in my book, and if he is ever caught not being clean, he'll be booed relentlessly by me.

[Dick Allen]

I'm done with this argument, as there seems no point in going back and forth, but it bears mentioning-- technically it wasn't against the rules to do steroids for much of baseball's history. You talk about the sliding scale of wrongness - i equate roiding with stealing signs and speeding, not that bad in the scheme of things. You equate it wth manslaughter and the like. That's fine, but I'm not the one who cheered for these guys ten years ago and now wants their records removed. At least I've been consistent. Bring the steroids back as far as I'm concerned. All I care is wins, by any means necessary.

 

But we can agree to disagree as it's clear we're not going to convince each other.

The way the players were acquiring and using steroids was against the law. Maybe they had no verbage in MLB' s "rule book", just like I'm sure there is nothing about many other crimes in the "rule book." It doesn't mean technically it wasn't against the rules.

[Texsox]

All I care is wins, by any means necessary.

 

No you will not convince me that cheating is OK. No, it is not as bad as manslaughter, you brought up speeding and stealing office supplies, and if that is OK, then steroids is fine also. I elaborated and showed how we've always ha d a sliding scale. Go ahead and cheat and have someone read it to you. Bonds and the other players hid their usage and denied to this day. Why?

 

When someone cheats you out of something that is rightfully yours, perhaps a promotion, money, whatever, I hope you have the same feeling and congratulate the person who cheated you.

 

I'm not going to cheat my way to a victory, but if you can live with that, so be it. Millions of people cheering for you, thinking you played by the rules, but really, you just f***ed over the honest guy. That makes you a dishonest person. I guess that is how you were raised. Shoot a five, write down a four. Cork a bat. Slip an ace off the bottom of the deck. Then you are the man! Try and convince yourself you are a better golfer, baseball player, or poker player than the guy who played by the rules. Once you start lying, it is probably easy enough to convince yourself you are really better than the poor sucker who plays it honest.

 

But when you change the rules, you change the sport. If Bonds really thought it was OK he'd be arguing just like you.

 

But in this debate, I'll take honesty over deceit. If you believe that is holier than thou, so be it. But there are a lot more honest people in this world that cheaters. I hope one day you won't have to cheat to win. My guess is you never tried.

 

In the end, you are a cheater. Fortunantly society doesn't honor that very much. Not too many parades and respect for cheaters.

[SoxAce]

No you will not convince me that cheating is OK. No, it is not as bad as manslaughter, you brought up speeding and stealing office supplies, and if that is OK, then steroids is fine also. I elaborated and showed how we've always ha d a sliding scale. Go ahead and cheat and have someone read it to you. Bonds and the other players hid their usage and denied to this day. Why?

 

When someone cheats you out of something that is rightfully yours, perhaps a promotion, money, whatever, I hope you have the same feeling and congratulate the person who cheated you.

 

I'm not going to cheat my way to a victory, but if you can live with that, so be it. Millions of people cheering for you, thinking you played by the rules, but really, you just f***ed over the honest guy. That makes you a dishonest person. I guess that is how you were raised. Shoot a five, write down a four. Cork a bat. Slip an ace off the bottom of the deck. Then you are the man! Try and convince yourself you are a better golfer, baseball player, or poker player than the guy who played by the rules. Once you start lying, it is probably easy enough to convince yourself you are really better than the poor sucker who plays it honest.

 

But when you change the rules, you change the sport. If Bonds really thought it was OK he'd be arguing just like you.

 

But in this debate, I'll take honesty over deceit. If you believe that is holier than thou, so be it. But there are a lot more honest people in this world that cheaters. I hope one day you won't have to cheat to win. My guess is you never tried.

 

In the end, you are a cheater. Fortunately society doesn't honor that very much. Not too many parades and respect for cheaters.

 

I gotta ask you Tex cause this has been a debate you've had over the years on this board and I just read it, and never get into it cause it's not my business. Have you ever cheated, just alittle, in anything in your life? I was under the impression that everyone does something to give them an edge to get by whether it's copying something in school, spitball/tar in a sport, eating junk food in a diet, giving themselves a higher score in a family board game etc... This is more or less an off topic question, especially considering unless the persons name is Jesus Christ, I've personally never come across (or read) a person who has never cheated once in their lives at something even a professional athlete who gets ridiculed because he's a millionaire.

 

I don't care if the MLB wipes out Bonds year 2000 numbers till the last game he played (I think 2007 or 2008) before he left. The man is still a hall of famer. You can't say that about guys like Sosa, McGwire, Palmiero, etc.. etc.. This man is one of the best players to ever put on a uniform. I personally hope the MLB does something to that extent to show the older players especially, and the fans that PEDs are not the answer. Even if they do that, Bonds still has a first place ballot waiting in Cooperstown. The same can be also said about Pete Rose. The man is a sure fire hall of famer, never did PEDs, his numbers are all legit. But he cheated the game by gambling when he was a manager, not a player. But it is still against the rules. People would still vote him in, and rightfully so. Hell we got hall of famers in Cooperstown RIGHT NOW, who cheated one way or another in this game and got away with it. The sayings go "If you don't get caught, it's not cheating" or "If your not cheating, your not trying" can apply. God knows how many baseballs Wilhelm, Spawn, Perry, etc.. were doctored up when they played. Hell even you hear a hall of famer(s) like Schmidt and even "pine tar" Brett say that if they had PEDs when they played that they probably would have done it to gain an edge and increase production is fairly telling in my eyes. Hell Canseco already said that there's one active hall of famer who did PEDs that is already in Cooperstown, and we may never know who that is.

Edited November 29, 2009 by SoxAce

[knightni]

...especially considering unless the persons name is Jesus Christ, I've personally never come across a person who has never cheated once in their lives...

 

You've personally met Jesus Christ...in person?

[SoxAce]

You've personally met Jesus Christ...in person?

 

Yea, I was having a seizure once and I saw him standing right in front of me. Honest Abe he was.

Edited November 29, 2009 by SoxAce

[knightni]

Yea, I was having a seizure once and I saw him standing right in front of me. Honest Abe he was.

Are you sure that wasn't a dog's butt?

 

 

http://images.google.com/images?q=jesus%20...l=en&tab=wi

 

[SoxAce]

Are you sure that wasn't a dog's butt?

 

 

http://images.google.com/images?q=jesus%20...l=en&tab=wi

 

Touche Jeremy... touche..

[MHizzle85]

I gotta ask you Tex cause this has been a debate you've had over the years on this board and I just read it, and never get into it cause it's not my business. Have you ever cheated, just alittle, in anything in your life? I was under the impression that everyone does something to give them an edge to get by whether it's copying something in school, spitball/tar in a sport, eating junk food in a diet, giving themselves a higher score in a family board game etc... This is more or less an off topic question, especially considering unless the persons name is Jesus Christ, I've personally never come across (or read) a person who has never cheated once in their lives at something even a professional athlete who gets ridiculed because he's a millionaire.

 

I don't care if the MLB wipes out Bonds year 2000 numbers till the last game he played (I think 2007 or 2008) before he left. The man is still a hall of famer. You can't say that about guys like Sosa, McGwire, Palmiero, etc.. etc.. This man is one of the best players to ever put on a uniform. I personally hope the MLB does something to that extent to show the older players especially, and the fans that PEDs are not the answer. Even if they do that, Bonds still has a first place ballot waiting in Cooperstown. The same can be also said about Pete Rose. The man is a sure fire hall of famer, never did PEDs, his numbers are all legit. But he cheated the game by gambling when he was a manager, not a player. But it is still against the rules. People would still vote him in, and rightfully so. Hell we got hall of famers in Cooperstown RIGHT NOW, who cheated one way or another in this game and got away with it. The sayings go "If you don't get caught, it's not cheating" or "If your not cheating, your not trying" can apply. God knows how many baseballs Wilhelm, Spawn, Perry, etc.. were doctored up when they played. Hell even you hear a hall of famer(s) like Schmidt and even "pine tar" Brett say that if they had PEDs when they played that they probably would have done it to gain an edge and increase production is fairly telling in my eyes. Hell Canseco already said that there's one active hall of famer who did PEDs that is already in Cooperstown, and we may never know who that is.

The realest thing posted in this thread. Agreed 100%

[Texsox]

I gotta ask you Tex cause this has been a debate you've had over the years on this board and I just read it, and never get into it cause it's not my business. Have you ever cheated, just alittle, in anything in your life? I was under the impression that everyone does something to give them an edge to get by whether it's copying something in school, spitball/tar in a sport, eating junk food in a diet, giving themselves a higher score in a family board game etc... This is more or less an off topic question, especially considering unless the persons name is Jesus Christ, I've personally never come across (or read) a person who has never cheated once in their lives at something even a professional athlete who gets ridiculed because he's a millionaire.

 

I don't care if the MLB wipes out Bonds year 2000 numbers till the last game he played (I think 2007 or 2008) before he left. The man is still a hall of famer. You can't say that about guys like Sosa, McGwire, Palmiero, etc.. etc.. This man is one of the best players to ever put on a uniform. I personally hope the MLB does something to that extent to show the older players especially, and the fans that PEDs are not the answer. Even if they do that, Bonds still has a first place ballot waiting in Cooperstown. The same can be also said about Pete Rose. The man is a sure fire hall of famer, never did PEDs, his numbers are all legit. But he cheated the game by gambling when he was a manager, not a player. But it is still against the rules. People would still vote him in, and rightfully so. Hell we got hall of famers in Cooperstown RIGHT NOW, who cheated one way or another in this game and got away with it. The sayings go "If you don't get caught, it's not cheating" or "If your not cheating, your not trying" can apply. God knows how many baseballs Wilhelm, Spawn, Perry, etc.. were doctored up when they played. Hell even you hear a hall of famer(s) like Schmidt and even "pine tar" Brett say that if they had PEDs when they played that they probably would have done it to gain an edge and increase production is fairly telling in my eyes. Hell Canseco already said that there's one active hall of famer who did PEDs that is already in Cooperstown, and we may never know who that is.

 

Fair question.

 

First of all, I do not see it as hypocritical to believe that there is a hierarchy of cheating and breaking of the rules. Some things are worse than others. As I noted, go yell at an ump and you may get a warning, you may get thrown out of the game, or you may get suspended. In real life get caught with a joint, get a warning, get caught with a kilo, probably not a warning, possibly jail time. Should society have the same punishment for every law that is broken? I doubt anyone here would seriously advocate that. So why are there different punishments? Because the severity of the rule/law is different. So if you lump eating junk food on a diet with taking steroids, read no further. You will never understand the rest.

 

The issue becomes where to place steroids on this list. It is my belief that steroids are worse than scuffing a ball, or corking a bat. In almost all other rules infractions, the ump has the ability to detect the cheating and stop it. With steroids, there is no way for the ump to detect it. Also, a player on steroids is cheating 100% of the time. In Bond's case, you can't even compare his cheating and non cheating results for the latter part of his career. And that really is sad. Imagine if Bonds had not juiced. His stats would be lower, but we would be arguing if he is the greatest based on results that were achieved under about the same conditions as every player in the past. Instead we must first decide how inflated his results are based on his drug use. That is not good for the game. It also seems wrong to reward a player because they found a superior way to cheat.

 

Games are defined by rules. When you invent a game, the first thing you do is make up the rules. Try and play a game where there are no rules. If two people are playing by two different sets of rules, they are not playing the same game. I find it hard to believe that at the end of an athletic contest, some of you here are happy to say, we cheated better than the other team, versus, we played better than the other team. I find it hard to believe that anyone who has played a sport and won, fairly, would find any satisfaction in cheating to win.

 

We will never know what Bonds non cheating results would have been. I agree it certainly would probably have been enough to warrant Hall of Fame induction. However, we will never know. We want to celebrate someone who pissed on the game of baseball. We want to hold him up in the hall as the type of player that everyone should aspire to? No thanks. If the game was filled by people who are all cheating, the game becomes meaningless. If the attention is not on improving performance on the field with practice, ability, and hard work, but in laboratories and which chemist can create a better player, why not stop playing humans and just play a video game?

 

Imagine this, Wow! that ball went 600 feet! What do you think he used? Clear? I hear there is a new bat that will add 100 feet and looks just like a real one. No I hear they broke into the storage room and doctored the balls. These guys are breaking all the rules! This is our greatest team ever!!

 

As far as my cheating, the only time I can remember breaking the rules, was during my Club's match play championship. In the semi final round I took relief from an embedded ball between a water hazard and the green, out of site of my opponent. Later, I realized I was probably within the boundary of the hazard and not entitled to relief. I brought it to the attention of the club pro, we visited the site, and I was right, I should not have taken relief. However, the pro informed me that once the results were posted, they were official, and there was no way to go back and award the victory to my opponent. I lost in the finals 8 and 7, I just did not want to be there. I may have beaten my opponent without the illegal drop, I was ahead at that point, but we will never know. That hole may have changed the momentum and he may have played better. I cannot believe some here would adopt the attitude of, too bad, he didn't catch you, you won and that's all that counts. I play to see if I am the better player that day, not if I can cheat better than my opponent. I'd rather practice playing than practice cheating.

 

Fans are upset when a human officiating error is the difference between winning and losing, how can fans feel good when cheating is the difference? I wonder if those that advocate for cheating would say, we lost the championship because the other team was cheating. But I don't care. Cheating is OK in my book and if they cheated better than us, they deserve the championship.

 

Some may enjoy hearing, awesome bit of cheating out there today. I thought you were going to lose, but who would have thought they would forget to keep on eye on you. Great switch of the balls and having that extra player run out there in the final seconds was brilliant! I guess they will spend less time practicing and more time learning the easy way.

[Texsox]

Using the premise of everyone has cheated or broke a rule, should we stop enforcing all rules? If we accept speeding five over, we should accept speeding twenty-five over? As a society when we find people breaking the rules we hold them accountable. It is a real stretch to claim that because the judge sped on his way to court that day, he shouldn't be allowed to convict that embezzler.

 

Your claims of we accept this little stuff so we must accept this bigger stuff would mean to severely punish the bigger stuff we would have to severely punish the smaller stuff. Does that really make sense?

 

Your example would mean the employees of Enron who made a few photocopies for their personal use (stealing office supplies) should not b**** when their retirement was stolen through company fraud and corruption. Correcting that seeming discrepancy would mean stealing those copies or a pen should mean long jail time. Certainly you can see why society has different levels of punishment based on the severity of the rule or law. The punishment varies from quiet acceptance (a few copies, a few paper clips) to long jail time (fraud, embezzlement). Same with the difference between scuffing a ball and taking steroids.

[NorthSideSox72]

The slippery slope arguments in here are just silly. Speeding tickets? Cheating your sister at monopoly? The only way its valid to say you can't criticize Bonds because others cheated too, is if all crimes and transgressions are seen as equal. And of course, they are not. So its a pointless argument to make.

 

Bonds broke the law, lied to the authorities, broke the rules of the game, and broke sacred records specifically because of his choice to cheat, lie and be a criminal. He's not getting voted into the Hall, nor should he be.