Red Sox maybe not desperate for a SS

[BearSox]

lol @ the idea of Omar Vizquel being able to be a quality starter at 2B. This aint 1999 anymore.

[2nd_city_saint787]

i think he would be a quality starter hit in the 2 hole, Iguchi wasnt that good of a hitter in 05 he just did what a guy in the 2 hole should do and look where gooch got us. Plus hes still one of the best defenders in the game.

[Disco72]

i think he would be a quality starter hit in the 2 hole, Iguchi wasnt that good of a hitter in 05 he just did what a guy in the 2 hole should do and look where gooch got us. Plus hes still one of the best defenders in the game.

 

Vizquel can't hit enough to be a starter in this league, let alone hitting in the #2 spot of the order. 2005 Iguchi is a far better hitter than 2009 Vizquel. If a trade like this were to happen, the Sox would have to dig into the FA market for a 2B.

[shoelessinva]

Kenny would likely do that deal in a heartbeat. Unless he is smitten over someone else, like he has been for Andruw Jones and Griffey for years.

 

Still, gotta give something to get something. Beckham at SS would be great! And I could do without the Alexi attitude.

[Balta1701]

Vizquel also wouldn't last the year as an everyday player without injury more than likely.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Theo Epstein would have to enter the witness protection program if he were even to consider this ridiculous trade proposal by Heyman. It's so unbelievably one-sided that you can't even call it an XBOX trade. Bard is better than Jenks RIGHT NOW. And he's gonna be dirt cheap for a while (compared to Jenks who's about to be overpaid). Jacoby Ellsbury is one of the premier leadoff hitters in all of baseball (not to mention he's also dirt cheap and under team control through 2013). And we'd get Okajima as well? LOL. I like Alexei. I think he has gold glove potential at a premium defensive position. And offensively, I think will see more 2008 than 2009 from him. But you don't trade guys like Ellsbury and Bard unless you're getting a superstar (I.E. Halladay) in return.

[Jordan4life_2007]

lol @ the idea of Omar Vizquel being able to be a quality starter at 2B. This aint 1999 anymore.

 

The idea of him being a starter under any circumstance outside of multiple injuries at the same time to GB and Alexei would have me calling for a new GM and manager.

[scenario]

Theo Epstein would have to enter the witness protection program if he were even to consider this ridiculous trade proposal by Heyman. It's so unbelievably one-sided that you can't even call it an XBOX trade. Bard is better than Jenks RIGHT NOW.

 

Whoa there....

 

Bard has a cannon for an arm, but so did Ricky Vaughn... who Bard, so far in his career, seems to be emulating.

 

6.0 BB/9 in the minors?? 4.0 BB/9 this year for Boston? That ain't going to cut it in the majors.

 

Bobby had similar numbers in the past and found he had to 'dial it down' to get his walks down... which is critical for a reliever if he wants to survive in MLB. Don't be surprised if Bard figures out he has to do the same.

 

So can Bard be a very good pitcher? Sure. Could he be successful as a major league closer with his current control issues? Doubtful.

 

So, is he better than Jenks right now? Absolutely not.

Edited November 28, 2009 by scenario

[Jordan4life_2007]

Whoa there....

 

Bard has a cannon for an arm, but so did Ricky Vaughn... who Bard, so far in his career, seems to be emulating.

 

6.0 BB/9 in the minors?? 4.0 BB/9 this year for Boston? That ain't going to cut it in the majors.

 

Bobby had similar numbers in the past and found he had to 'dial it down' to get his walks down... which is critical for a reliever if he wants to survive in MLB. Don't be surprised if Bard figures out he has to do the same.

 

So can Bard be a very good pitcher? Sure. Could he be successful as a major league closer with his current control issues? Doubtful.

 

So, is he better than Jenks right now? Absolutely not.

 

Maybe saying he's better right now was overdoing it a tad (although I think he will undoubtedly be better very soon). But when you factor in age, cost, stuff, there isn't a GM in baseball that wouldn't take Bard over Jenks.

[Dick Allen]

Whoa there....

 

Bard has a cannon for an arm, but so did Ricky Vaughn... who Bard, so far in his career, seems to be emulating.

 

6.0 BB/9 in the minors?? 4.0 BB/9 this year for Boston? That ain't going to cut it in the majors.

 

Bobby had similar numbers in the past and found he had to 'dial it down' to get his walks down... which is critical for a reliever if he wants to survive in MLB. Don't be surprised if Bard figures out he has to do the same.

 

So can Bard be a very good pitcher? Sure. Could he be successful as a major league closer with his current control issues? Doubtful.

 

So, is he better than Jenks right now? Absolutely not.

He's probably not better than Jenks right now, although their ERAs were pretty much the same, but he may be by April and he'll be about $6.5 million cheaper for the 2010 season. I do know KW loves this guy but so does Theo. I don't think the Red Sox would make this offer even though Alexei is very cheap for his position and production. For KW it would be a no brainer. Bard doesn't have to close. They can use Thornton to close, and with the financial savings, sign Hudson or Polanco, add a DH and you could seriously talk about the WS again. Its too nice for the Sox. It could never happen.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Dick Allen

[Quin]

He's probably not better than Jenks right now, although their ERAs were pretty much the same, but he may be by April and he'll be about $6.5 million cheaper for the 2010 season. I do know KW loves this guy but so does Theo. I don't think the Red Sox would make this offer even though Alexei is very cheap for his position and production. For KW it would be a no brainer. Bard doesn't have to close. They can use Thornton to close, and with the financial savings, sign Hudson or Polanco, add a DH and you could seriously talk about the WS again. Its too nice for the Sox. It could never happen.

 

I'm thinking some reasoning behind the deal would be Theo Epstein sometimes does deals for the sake of doing deals (Kotchman-LaRoche, and I can't see any other reason for Kotsay-Anderson). Plus, you get the possibly elite SS in Alexei and a closer backup plan/setup man in Bobby.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'm thinking some reasoning behind the deal would be Theo Epstein sometimes does deals for the sake of doing deals (Kotchman-LaRoche, and I can't see any other reason for Kotsay-Anderson). Plus, you get the possibly elite SS in Alexei and a closer backup plan/setup man in Bobby.

 

Why would they need Jenks to be setup/closer guy when they have Bard, who easily has the ability to excel in either role, for over 6 million dollars less? Not to mention there's no concerns about Bard's weight/conditioning.

[beck72]

I do think Epstein should and will try and acquire a SS via the trade route. Whether that's Alexei or not-who knows. They have been burned by free agent SS's and only Scutaro remains. He is likely seeking a 3 yr deal and is bound to decline sharply quickly--esp. on defense.

[sircaffey]

I'm thinking some reasoning behind the deal would be Theo Epstein sometimes does deals for the sake of doing deals (Kotchman-LaRoche, and I can't see any other reason for Kotsay-Anderson). Plus, you get the possibly elite SS in Alexei and a closer backup plan/setup man in Bobby.

 

I think both of those deals had viable reasons. The reason given for the Kotchman trade was LaRoche has a timing mechanism in his swing that is not conducive to coming off the bench, which is true. As LaRoche was the odd man out once they acquired Victor. And Anderson's superior defense was a better fit on a team not in need of bats off the bench. And these deals are quite minor in comparison to the deal proposed here.

[YASNY]

I think both of those deals had viable reasons. The reason given for the Kotchman trade was LaRoche has a timing mechanism in his swing that is not conducive to coming off the bench, which is true. As LaRoche was the odd man out once they acquired Victor. And Anderson's superior defense was a better fit on a team not in need of bats off the bench. And these deals are quite minor in comparison to the deal proposed here.

 

As an added note, I also seem to recall that Kotsay had been DFA'd and they had 10 days to trade or release him.

[Dick Allen]

Why would they need Jenks to be setup/closer guy when they have Bard, who easily has the ability to excel in either role, for over 6 million dollars less? Not to mention there's no concerns about Bard's weight/conditioning.

That's the other thing, Ozzie and KW did themselves no favors calling out Jenks if they plan to trade him. It seems to me they are getting their arbitration ammo in order.

 

Last spring I was shocked when a reporter asked Ozzie about Jenks' weight, he just said he didn't care what he weighed anymore. Maybe they were giving him one shot at doing things his way, and all things considered, he probably had his worst year with the White Sox.

Edited November 29, 2009 by Dick Allen

[Jordan4life_2007]

That's the other thing, Ozzie and KW did themselves no favors calling out Jenks if they plan to trade him. It seems to me they are getting their arbitration ammo in order.

 

Last spring I was shocked when a reporter asked Ozzie about Jenks' weight, he just said he didn't care what he weighed anymore. Maybe they were giving him one shot at doing things his way, and all things considered, he probably had his worst year with the White Sox.

 

His FIP (fielding independent pitching) was 4.47. That's pretty bad for a closer. And easily the worst of his career. Just a bad year? Or did Bobby peak in 2007? That's the million dollar question.

[RockRaines]

Dumb, dumb dumb dumb.

 

[kwolf68]

 

I love the idea of Ellsbury (finally someone who can run, hit, play some defense)...but am NOT excited about moving Alexei.

[Princess Dye]

Bard may not be outstanding, but lets not overvalue Alexei either. Generic shortstop defensively. He gives you a very nice amount of offense for the position, but it's not at the level of special.

 

Also since when does Alexei have an attitude? Do people here know him personally? If we're trying to do something silly like interpret his facial expressions ...that's highly contingent on the culture yr from.

Edited November 30, 2009 by Princess Dye

[LittleHurt05]

why is Boston seem to be so willing to trade Ellsbury? A great leadoff hitter, young, probably still cheap, I would think you would want to hold onto him.

[Leonard Zelig]

why is Boston seem to be so willing to trade Ellsbury? A great leadoff hitter, young, probably still cheap, I would think you would want to hold onto him.

 

Well, they do have Brian Anderson.

[RockRaines]

Bard may not be outstanding, but lets not overvalue Alexei either. Generic shortstop defensively. He gives you a very nice amount of offense for the position, but it's not at the level of special.

 

Also since when does Alexei have an attitude? Do people here know him personally? If we're trying to do something silly like interpret his facial expressions ...that's highly contingent on the culture yr from.

Oh, you could tell he was "generic" defensively from his first professional season at the position?

[Jordan4life_2007]

Bard may not be outstanding, but lets not overvalue Alexei either. Generic shortstop defensively. He gives you a very nice amount of offense for the position, but it's not at the level of special.

 

Also since when does Alexei have an attitude? Do people here know him personally? If we're trying to do something silly like interpret his facial expressions ...that's highly contingent on the culture yr from.

 

Don't be fooled by the bonehead errors. Alexei is more than capable of playing an above average SS. Athleticism? Check. Range? Check. Throwing arm? Check.

[Quin]

why is Boston seem to be so willing to trade Ellsbury? A great leadoff hitter, young, probably still cheap, I would think you would want to hold onto him.

 

I think Scott said it on page 2 but...

 

They have great farm depth, along with the fact they could get in a Granderson sweepstakes to replace him.