Hall of Fame Ballot is out

[knightni]

Doesn't matter to me. If he was so innocent then he could of said so when asked. But he chose "not to talk about the past."

Perhaps he was told to say that by his lawyer.

 

These guys were probably thinking that Congress was "railroading" them.

Making them look bad in the court of public opinion, so they played it straight and refused to "narc" on each other.

 

Until a positive test shows up, like in Bonds' or Palmeiro's case, I see no direct reason to deny McGwire.

[flavum]

Perhaps he was told to say that by his lawyer.

 

These guys were probably thinking that Congress was "railroading" them.

Making them look bad in the court of public opinion, so they played it straight and refused to "narc" on each other.

 

Until a positive test shows up, like in Bonds' or Palmeiro's case, I see no direct reason to deny McGwire.

 

How's your vision? Mark McGwire took steroids, and there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that the feds didn't follow up on with McGwire.

[knightni]

He's on the ballot by the Hall of Fame's choice.

 

Pete Rose is not.

 

This means that the Baseball Hall of Fame has no reason to deny McGwire the opportunity to be voted for.

[knightni]

How's your vision? Mark McGwire took steroids, and there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that the feds didn't follow up on with McGwire.

Steroids don't always bulk you up. A lot of guys who have been busted are not that large. Alex Sanchez, and Pablo Ozuna as two examples.

 

Giambi is still pretty large, as are Clemens and ARod - yet they have not officially "juiced" in years.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Alomar

Larkin

Smith

Raines

Rose

[knightni]

Umpire spitting incident won't delay Robbie's entrance?

[kjshoe04]

Umpire spitting incident won't delay Robbie's entrance?

I don't think it will nor should it. He's first ballot.

[Rowand44]

Umpire spitting incident won't delay Robbie's entrance?

It shouldn't. He should be in on the first ballot imo.

[Rowand44]

Perhaps he was told to say that by his lawyer.

 

These guys were probably thinking that Congress was "railroading" them.

Making them look bad in the court of public opinion, so they played it straight and refused to "narc" on each other.

 

Until a positive test shows up, like in Bonds' or Palmeiro's case, I see no direct reason to deny McGwire.

If he didn't roid there would be absolutely no reason for him to plead the 5th, none.

[knightni]

If he didn't roid there would be absolutely no reason for him to plead the 5th, none.

Unless the players all agreed beforehand on what they'd talk about and what they wouldn't.

 

/Don Fehr

[MHizzle85]

Unless the players all agreed beforehand on what they'd talk about and what they wouldn't.

 

/Don Fehr

So explain Palmeiro.

[knightni]

So explain Palmeiro.

I'm guessing that they went all "don't ask don't tell" at each other.

[MattZakrowski]

Unless the players all agreed beforehand on what they'd talk about and what they wouldn't.

 

/Don Fehr

 

I don't understand what the purpose of that would be...

[NorthSideSox72]

alright, who picked Shane Reynolds, and why?

 

[Texsox]

That's still opinion and hearsay.

 

There is no concrete proof.

 

No concrete proof? That players hid it?

[Kalapse]

Induction into the Hall of Fame isn't a right, it's a privilege and precedent has been set that if you're believed to have used steroid -- regardless of the lack of a positive test -- you're not going to be elected. It's not a court of law, it's a vote so public and personal opinion are the only things that really matter here and when you have as much smoke surrounding you as McGwire does there's got to be a fire and that's more than enough to keep him out. Add in the fact that he's not considered an all-time great and doesn't even have an MVP award on his resume he's not even going to come close.

[Reddy]

alright, who picked Shane Reynolds, and why?

i was just about to ask the same question.

[knightni]

Induction into the Hall of Fame isn't a right, it's a privilege and precedent has been set that if you're believed to have used steroid -- regardless of the lack of a positive test -- you're not going to be elected. It's not a court of law, it's a vote so public and personal opinion are the only things that really matter here and when you have as much smoke surrounding you as McGwire does there's got to be a fire and that's more than enough to keep him out. Add in the fact that he's not considered an all-time great and doesn't even have an MVP award on his resume he's not even going to come close.

If people object enough to what they believe that he's done, he should be left off of the ballot.

[witesoxfan]

That seems to be a good question. So I will add my own questions, if it was OK, why did guys hide it? Why didn't one, just one, come out and say, hey this isn't banned so I'm using steroids? They all hid it. Many hid it from their teammates. That tells me a lot about whether the drug users thought they were doing something wrong or not.

 

A person's answer to that will determined whether they think someone should be held accountable for their drug use.

 

Not every amphetamine is illegal. I wouldn't be surprised if there are amphetamines in some energy drinks that average people are unaware that they are drinking. In fact, if I'm remembering the terminology correctly, there were always two pots of coffee in the clubhouse - the regular coffee pot and the "greeny" pot, which had an amphetamine in it. Personally, I would be surprised if there was an actual clean player before UA'ing went into place, and I imagine that the the banishment of amphetamines has had something do with the decrease in offensive potency over the past few years, perhaps even more than other PED use, including steroids and HGH.

 

That's still opinion and hearsay.

 

There is no concrete proof.

 

Uh, Andro?

 

Check page 3, #4 on the illegal steroids on this list

 

I don't care if he bought it at GNC or where he bought it, it's illegal by MLB standards now, he retired before UA testing went into place, and he was never subject to any of the testing. McGwire is dirty as f***.

 

Steroids don't always bulk you up. A lot of guys who have been busted are not that large. Alex Sanchez, and Pablo Ozuna as two examples.

 

Giambi is still pretty large, as are Clemens and ARod - yet they have not officially "juiced" in years.

 

Not every steroid bulks you up. Our household pro-steroid friend TRU (or whatever his name is now a days) can fill you in on that, or you can just research it. The huge point of steroids is that it increases recovery time, allowing players to play through injuries much better than they did before, and the fact that some can bulk you up and make you stronger only helps that.

 

And that old fashioned "it doesn't make your eyes adjust any better" - well, no, I imagine it doesn't, but that doesn't change the fact that it may be able to make your hips quicker or wrists faster, and, as a general principle in baseball, if you hit for power for any type of consistency, pitchers pitch around you. Jim Thome has a great eye, but if pitchers went after him more, he'd hit .240 with 50 homers and he'd only walk 40-50 times. The reason pitchers pitch around guys is because they don't want to get beat badly, and they'd much rather give 1st than home. Not always is this the case, but essentially, power = walks.

 

 

BTW, Giambi also went out for an extended period of time, Clemens never started pitching in his latter years till June at the earliest, and Bonds missed an entire year. The fact that ARod was going to be the "clean" player that broke the "dirty" Bonds record probably played into the minds of the PR and marketing department of MLB headquarters, and when everything else broke out, they backed off.

 

I have my theories as to the rest, but I'll leave it at that.

[Middle Buffalo]

Until a positive test shows up, like in Bonds' or Palmeiro's case, I see no direct reason to deny McGwire.

McGwire was named in a FBI investigation as a user before the BALCO and Congress stuff. http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/sports...bi_informa.html He wasn't pursued because the focus of the investigation was on the dealers, not users. Another interesting point in the investigation is that Reggie Jackson is good friends with the guy said to have supplied/injected McGwire several times. Who knows how far back steroid use in baseball really goes?

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Who voted for Ellis Burks?

[NorthSideSox72]

One guy I think is being severly underrated here, and elsewhere, is Dale Murphy. 7 time all star, 2 time MVP, 5 time GG winner, went 30-30 once, hit 398 HR playing before the steroid era really got going, 100+ RBI five times while playing for a lackluster offensive Atlanta team (most years), durable player who missed very little time (once played 740 consecutive games), and he didn't stretch his career on forever as a DH to achieve those numbers (never even played in the AL). His numbers look better to me than Dawson's, and certainly Baines', especially when you look by period - career OPS+ is 122 (better than the other two). He was considered one of the best power hitters, and one of the best outfielders, in the game, for some time. I think you could even make a case for him over Jim Rice.

 

ETA: B-R calls him arguably the best player of the 80's, and Murphy was known as a solid character guy as well.

 

[balfanman]

I'm greatly disappointed that there is no Ron Santo to vote for.

[Kalapse]

McGwire was named in a FBI investigation as a user before the BALCO and Congress stuff. http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/sports...bi_informa.html He wasn't pursued because the focus of the investigation was on the dealers, not users. Another interesting point in the investigation is that Reggie Jackson is good friends with the guy said to have supplied/injected McGwire several times. Who knows how far back steroid use in baseball really goes?

I totally forgot about this. There's your smoking gun.

[NorthSideSox72]

I totally forgot about this. There's your smoking gun.

Kalapse, I am going to specifically ask you about what I posted earlier. What are your thoughts on Murphy?