LDF Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 a castoff like loaiza? he does have payroll restraints, ya know. and yes he was a castoff. how many teams thought he would do what he has done? exactly. but kw took a flyer on him anyway. sometimes these things work out, sometimes they don't. but there was little risk involved. look, you are right in saying KW has f***ed up with a lot of trades in the past. but i can't really blame him for daubach. he was relatively cheap, he was a lefty, he was an upgrade from liefer. and now that the trade deadline is here, we can get a better player. yeah but mostly brian d imo has not worked out in our favor. i blame jm for starting brian tonite. i like brian b/c he is a gamer but that is all he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Why the hell would you want to trade Maggs or Garland? Thats stupid, Maggs is the best hitter and Garland is going to be awesome soon.. Look at him now... 23 and he is doing badass this year, there have been times he has gotten no support I would be really dissapointed if the Sox traded Garland, he is something special Maggs is our best hitter, if he gets traded we give up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 LDF, just curious, you are aware of the fact that Daubach hit like .275 20 100 four straight years in Boston, right? For around the league minimum, that's a f***ing steal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 LDF, just curious, you are aware of the fact that Daubach hit like .275 20 100 four straight years in Boston, right? For around the league minimum, that's a f***ing steal. yeah i could see all the clubs lining up to sign him to a nice deal, more than what we gave him. 400,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Why the hell would you want to trade Maggs or Garland? Thats stupid, Maggs is the best hitter and Garland is going to be awesome soon.. Look at him now... 23 and he is doing badass this year, there have been times he has gotten no support I would be really dissapointed if the Sox traded Garland, he is something special Maggs is our best hitter, if he gets traded we give up not if he wants to play somewhere else and said so. this was last week with sd. his new agents said that when he is available he would like to play somewhere in the west coast. here is a time to get your best return for him. you trade him now that will help you get to the playoff and more. you get 3 pitchers 2 who is now pitching in the majors to help with another as a super prospect. garland can be used if you have to, someone who can get you that elusive mp and pitching that can help now. but it would be hard for me to trade him. in the offseason anything is possible and no one could be untouchable. the stupid part is to think that we should keep everyone and not use players to make the team better. what is even more stupid is to criticize something without know the reason. and what is more stupid is to have a norrow mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 LDF, just curious, you are aware of the fact that Daubach hit like .275 20 100 four straight years in Boston, right? For around the league minimum, that's a f***ing steal. yeah i could see all the clubs lining up to sign him to a nice deal, more than what we gave him. 400,000 We'll just agree to disagree. Signing Daubach was great. He was a much, much better option then Jeff Liefer, who went to Montreal and was then released by them and picked up by Tampa. If given every day playing time, I would guess he'd have 10-15 homers right now with about 60 RBI and a .275 average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 liefer has nothing to do with this at the time of sign brian d. he was traded and was out of the scene. a good gm would see how to improve the team and actually do improve the team. how many times has kw f*** up on a trade or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 LDF trading Maggs and Garland would be STUPID no matter how narrow minded you think I am being Your saying trade them to make the team better when they are some of the peices that HAVE this team better right NOW I dont understand your logic here And I am sure that Maggs would turn down a contract offer from the White Sox to go play somewhere else and if that does even happen when he is almost done then trade him but until then trading our best player is not smart at all.. Garlandis a 23 year old pitcher who is having a solid year so far.. what more do you want? He is only going to get better, if your going to trade anyone trade Colon to make the team better he is the one who is faltering here.. NOT Maggs or Garland.. so please, explain how I am stupid again.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Correction **I am sure Maggs would NOT turn down a contract offer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Correction **I am sure Maggs would NOT turn down a contract offer but at vlad money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 LDF trading Maggs and Garland would be STUPID no matter how narrow minded you think I am being Your saying trade them to make the team better when they are some of the peices that HAVE this team better right NOW I dont understand your logic here And I am sure that Maggs would turn down a contract offer from the White Sox to go play somewhere else and if that does even happen when he is almost done then trade him but until then trading our best player is not smart at all.. Garlandis a 23 year old pitcher who is having a solid year so far.. what more do you want? He is only going to get better, if your going to trade anyone trade Colon to make the team better he is the one who is faltering here.. NOT Maggs or Garland.. so please, explain how I am stupid again.. not if you think you could sign him to a contract. you do not want to go to the last second trying to sign him and then it is too late. mags is one option to get better fast and quicky. is it going to happen prob not. but i am open to listen. if losing mags brings in lets say real several solid pitchers one who could be a phenom i would listen. i am talking about the situation we are in now. ref to garland, i am not wanting to trade him b/c of anything, but if he can be part of the deal that will bring in a player, that means recieving a player that can help now. i am alll for it. ( i mean recieving a starting pitcher in return. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 So basically KW is getting blamed because Daubach isn't hitting well. If he were hitting well, KW would be a genius. But since he's not, he's an idiot. Still, when Daubach has gotten playing time he has tore the cover off the ball. He can hit the ball and has had some big hits for the Sox. He's way better then Jeff Liefer and he can draw a walk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 you are full of s*** little one. i like and gave credit to kw for the colon trade, the roberto trade, and i took back what i said about eloo signing. actually what i said about him is that i didn't know anything about him and i will wait and see. so you like kw trades and signing b/c of what, your little naive thoughts? heh. You slay me LDF. "evertt isn't good, they trade mnr lagurs who I liked and BA liked" You liked the Colon trade, but would now love to see him traded to the Giants. Righto. The whole point I'm trying to make is that your upset at Williams/Manuel, when it is Daubach who isn't swinging the bat well. i never said i wanted to see colon traded to sfo. what i been saying is why is the rumor still there and what would it take to trade colon. in addition if the trade went down, would people still think that is a white flag trade2. look at the post. if you are going to quote me, quote me correctly. i am for trading rowand, garland, clee and mags to sd, mont or even pitts, for pitching that can help us now not for tomorrow. mostly sd. when i see the trade for everett in our favor i will take back what i said. furhtermore, i think we gave way too much for everett. i can see the reasoning for getting him but we gave up too much. The problem is the prospects you suggest getting couldn't help the Sox now. In the most case rookies won't help the White Sox unless they are dumping that payroll to add a super star or two and in that case I'm fine with it (Dealing Colon for Fopper/Williams and landing Ponson/Giles/Kendall). But guys like Peavy and Perez have proved absolutely nothing at the major league level while Garland is much more of a pitcher he is and Magglio Ordonez is one of the best outfielders in the majors. If the Sox are gonna deal him then I'd expect a Konerko/Ordonez for Peavy/Nady/Burroughs/Klesko. Sox need proven players or the very best prospects. But if they go for prospects it means they are giving up the season, which wouldn't be a good thing. Only prospects i'm willing to take at this time is if it means Ponson, etc are coming. Otherwise its not a wise move. It takes most rookie pitcher years before they turn into an actual consistent star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Why the hell would you want to trade Maggs or Garland? Thats stupid, Maggs is the best hitter and Garland is going to be awesome soon.. Look at him now... 23 and he is doing badass this year, there have been times he has gotten no support I would be really dissapointed if the Sox traded Garland, he is something special Maggs is our best hitter, if he gets traded we give up not if he wants to play somewhere else and said so. this was last week with sd. his new agents said that when he is available he would like to play somewhere in the west coast. here is a time to get your best return for him. you trade him now that will help you get to the playoff and more. you get 3 pitchers 2 who is now pitching in the majors to help with another as a super prospect. garland can be used if you have to, someone who can get you that elusive mp and pitching that can help now. but it would be hard for me to trade him. in the offseason anything is possible and no one could be untouchable. the stupid part is to think that we should keep everyone and not use players to make the team better. what is even more stupid is to criticize something without know the reason. and what is more stupid is to have a norrow mind. His agent can't technically say something like that. Ordonez isn't going anywhere. If the Sox want him he will come back. From what I've seen out of Ordonez I think he really likes Chicago and I don't see him going elsewhere. Now I'm sure San Diego is a good alternative if he doesn't have money, but Maggs is signed next year too, so I won't worry about dealing him till next year or in the offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 liefer has nothing to do with this at the time of sign brian d. he was traded and was out of the scene. a good gm would see how to improve the team and actually do improve the team. how many times has kw f*** up on a trade or something. Ya and KW signed a guy that had played great for a good Boston team for 4 straight years. It isn't his fault that Manuel never gave the guy any consistent playing time while Konerko was hitting like s***. When he finally got playing time his avg skyrocketed and he was always getting on base. Take a look at his OBP which is 3rd on the team (Thomas and Alomar are higher). Actually after taking a look, I'm freaking disgusted at our team. No one can freaking draw a walk. Maggs has a solid OBP, even though he isn't exactly the greatest walk guy, but we have Lee really low (Showing last year was a fluke; well the last half of it). Hell, Jose has a higher OBP then Carlos Lee. After glancing at these stats Everett is a huge upgrade over Lee because Everett can and will draw the walk. Sox can't afford having Lee in the 2 hole if he isn't drawing walks. If he goes back to that Lee that drew the walks in the 2nd half of the season then he's just fine in that slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 LDF trading Maggs and Garland would be STUPID no matter how narrow minded you think I am being Your saying trade them to make the team better when they are some of the peices that HAVE this team better right NOW I dont understand your logic here And I am sure that Maggs would turn down a contract offer from the White Sox to go play somewhere else and if that does even happen when he is almost done then trade him but until then trading our best player is not smart at all.. Garlandis a 23 year old pitcher who is having a solid year so far.. what more do you want? He is only going to get better, if your going to trade anyone trade Colon to make the team better he is the one who is faltering here.. NOT Maggs or Garland.. so please, explain how I am stupid again.. not if you think you could sign him to a contract. you do not want to go to the last second trying to sign him and then it is too late. mags is one option to get better fast and quicky. is it going to happen prob not. but i am open to listen. if losing mags brings in lets say real several solid pitchers one who could be a phenom i would listen. i am talking about the situation we are in now. ref to garland, i am not wanting to trade him b/c of anything, but if he can be part of the deal that will bring in a player, that means recieving a player that can help now. i am alll for it. ( i mean recieving a starting pitcher in return. ) Not one that could be a phenom, but one that alreayd is. If they don't get one young player that is an all star, then the deal isn't worth it in my opinion. Only way I deal Ordonez would be this offseason if the Sox decide that with the money Maggs want they'd be better off offering Vladdy a couple million more per season and then the Sox could move Maggs to fill up several other holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 sfo/sd or any other team that has prospect that is up and coming, william, peavy, foppert, ainsworth, perez, lainro or any of the young talent that is getting a lot of attention as up and coming pitcher will help the team at this stage. they not only can be the 5 th starter and even poss the long relief for a short time. ref to making money avail for the offseason fa, what you said is what i am hinting and aiming without mentioning that. but yeah why not, if we can free some money. the biggest prob i see now is some gets into a love affair with players and will not trade them. there are some that can be untouchable but when you have holes you need a way to fill them. i mention several names out there as well, like clee. why has noone can to his defense. i am saying and what i said i will not be hard press to trade anyone who can help and we will get the lion share of the draft. ref to mags and a new contract, you said you think that he would want to stay here. i say there is a possiblity that he doesn't. unless we know for sure and i mean no guesses this is a wash. you have no proof and neither do i. i am not and neither are you privy to any of this inside info. if i can get william and foppert and another prospect from sfo for mags or colon, i would make the deal. this is an example of a argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Still, when Daubach has gotten playing time he has tore the cover off the ball. He can hit the ball and has had some big hits for the Sox. He's way better then Jeff Liefer and he can draw a walk. then way wasn't he sign by a nother team for more money and more playing time. i have never been sold on him and this is still the same argument i had when we first sign him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 LDF I dont understand why you insist on saying you would include Garland in a package for someone to help us now when Garland IS someone who is helping us now, thats what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Surely we have somebody in our organization that can start, don't we? Who's our best No. 5 candidate in minors? How's the tall guy doing? Suppan sucks. We got 4 good starters; our team is in place for better or worse. No more trades please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 liefer has nothing to do with this at the time of sign brian d. he was traded and was out of the scene. a good gm would see how to improve the team and actually do improve the team. how many times has kw f*** up on a trade or something. Why is Daubach so bad. He hasn't hit.. fine but he plays hard and wants to win. By this time in Boston he would have at least 275 - 300 AB's which he doesn't have here. I think Daubach has accepted his role greatly and wants to do good for this team, we sould cut him some slack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 LDF I dont understand why you insist on saying you would include Garland in a package for someone to help us now when Garland IS someone who is helping us now, thats what I mean. let me say that it is me, for me to explain my reasoning as in someone trying to explain their reasoning is sometimes hard. lets say that garland is part of a deal where you are sending jon, botch, and a of prospect for lets say, a sp with good stuff and pit 500 now, 2 rp who is pitching now and one of them had a great yr and a ss prospect, would you do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 liefer has nothing to do with this at the time of sign brian d. he was traded and was out of the scene. a good gm would see how to improve the team and actually do improve the team. how many times has kw f*** up on a trade or something. Why is Daubach so bad. He hasn't hit.. fine but he plays hard and wants to win. By this time in Boston he would have at least 275 - 300 AB's which he doesn't have here. I think Daubach has accepted his role greatly and wants to do good for this team, we sould cut him some slack by this time last yr doesn't wash. he is a bench player now. not what he did in the past. he sign on with the knowledge of clee and mags in the of. pk and frank as dh. he sign on as a role player. why didn't any other team sign him? why did he take such a reduce role with us if he had this nice career? being a good person and a gamer i am sure he might be a great guy, but how many times does a starter deals with being a role player the following yr is not affected. he been a starter and now he is accepting a reduce role? why? esp for 400k a yr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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