Sox will not offer arbitration to Dotel, Dye, Pods or Castro

[balfanman]

I kept being told that all the moves we made last year were for 2010 and if we happened to win the division in 2009 that was supposed to be gravy. Now we're pushing it another year?

 

Good catch and I agree. We need to go for it now.

[Kalapse]

Once again, I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but we are looking at potential here. There are probably a hundred or more options out there that can "potentially do" what Dotel does. Dotel is not a lock to perform as his usual self either, but I believe that he is a much safer bet than most any other name that I've heard is available. I would hate to miss the playoffs next season mainly because our bullpen sucked when we had a piece in our grasp and let him go. I think that we tremendously under value what Dotel has done the last couple of seasons.

 

You may well be correct, I just don't know. I only hope that K. W. and his scouting staff make the right decision here.

You seriously believe he's worth $6.5M? Even if it means we'd have to go cheap in filling one of our other holes? You can sign guys for next to the minimum and get similar odds to that of Dotel that they'll help your pen in 2009. For $6.5M you can sign 10 guys and odds are one or two of them will have a very good year, that's how bullpens work. Somehow I doubt we'll miss the playoffs due to the absence of Octavio Dotel and I've been one of his biggest defenders over the past 2 years, even before it became fashionable to do so.

[Princess Dye]

I kept being told that all the moves we made last year were for 2010 and if we happened to win the division in 2009 that was supposed to be gravy. Now we're pushing it another year?

 

I think it's an elevated version of that. I mean, the staff the way it is now gives us one side of the ball where we can be championship level....and then the offense, which is an x-factor.

 

The moves we're making now are: "a few guys pan out and we can win a playoff series or more, otherwise wait til '11"

 

 

 

 

They couldve not gotten Rios and went for it this offseason. But then what if you miss out on Holliday? You overpay for Bay? It's a weak FA crop.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Princess Dye

[Kalapse]

The Sox have been pretty consistent about being one of the respectable payroll teams each year.

 

I'm glad they're waiting this offseason out. When Konerko comes off the books then you'll have enough money to address the middle-of-the-order problem in a legitimate free agency way.

 

You can tell when Kenny sets his mind on filling a spot during an offseason. He made plays for Torii and Fukudome before settling on Swisher.

 

This year is a wait-and-see, and part of that will be seeing if they can get by a year with scrap heap guys that could pan out.

 

But with Peavy in place I think they're seeing '10 as a maybe-we'll-contend year...with '11 as an aim-at-contention year.

I don't think that's true at all, I find it strange that anyone would jump to such a conclusion before we even hit the Winter Meetings. Kenny's moves this offseason haven't hinted that way at all, if anything they're hinting in the opposite direction with the veteran bench he's putting together, it's the sort of thing teams with Championship aspirations tend to do.

[BigSqwert]

I think it's an elevated version of that. I mean, the staff the way it is now gives us one side of the ball where we can be championship level....and then the offense, which is an x-factor.

 

The moves we're making now are: "a few guys pan out and we can win a playoff series or more, otherwise wait til '11"

 

 

 

 

They couldve not gotten Rios and went for it this offseason. But then what if you miss out on Holliday? You overpay for Bay? It's a weak FA crop.

I disagree. Based on current economics and what's available out there KW is building a championship caliber team for 2010. It's not every year where you have a rotation like this. Would be a shame to put it to waste.

[Princess Dye]

We already know they want Pods to come here cheaply. Does this scream championship aspirations? Pods would get one of our two open spots.

 

I personally dont think they have Kotsay and Jones both here to be bench guys.... plus you have Ozzie's comments about a rotating DH.

 

But we'll see I guess. I bet if they do get a guy like Matsui it will come at the cost of someone who was here in '09 (Jenks?).

 

 

 

I think when KW got Rios, it was with the thought that he'd come here and hopefully get 35 doubles and .350 OBP in a full year. What we hope is that it was a precursor to a real XBH guy being acquired, but my fear is that they want to address that issue with a full year of Rios, Beckham and rotating RF/DH (with Pods in there).

Edited December 1, 2009 by Princess Dye

[NorthSideSox72]

Then we were lied to. All you have to do is go back on previous owner and GM comments about putting money out there on salary spending. Obviously finances are a concern for all teams unless there is collusion amongst team ownership as has been put out there by agents. I am hoping we are working on a new master plan to win

No one lied to you. Show me a lie.

 

[RockRaines]

While Dotel had a great '09 season

~$6Mil for a 36 year old arm isn't worth the risk. But looking at FA options... I doubt KW will find anyone better for the price.

He's been a pretty good player for us, very flexible and although prone to the big HR, he's been overall very good.

[NorthSideSox72]

He's been a pretty good player for us, very flexible and although prone to the big HR, he's been overall very good.

Dotel is an off or on pitcher, even more so than most. 99% of the time, you can tell from batter #1 if he has it or not. I think Dotel was a fairly effective pitcher in his time here, but I think he could have been even more than that if Ozzie had handled him a little better in that regard.

 

[ThunderBolt]

He's been a pretty good player for us, very flexible and although prone to the big HR, he's been overall very good.

Anyone with that K-Rate, can't be written off. I'll miss the guy, he was one of the more reliable members of the pen.

[Ranger]

The Sox have been pretty consistent about being one of the respectable payroll teams each year.

 

I'm glad they're waiting this offseason out. When Konerko comes off the books then you'll have enough money to address the middle-of-the-order problem in a legitimate free agency way.

 

You can tell when Kenny sets his mind on filling a spot during an offseason. He made plays for Torii and Fukudome before settling on Swisher.

 

This year is a wait-and-see, and part of that will be seeing if they can get by a year with scrap heap guys that could pan out.

 

But with Peavy in place I think they're seeing '10 as a maybe-we'll-contend year...with '11 as an aim-at-contention year.

 

I've had this discussion 200 times about the Sox in terms of payroll, and no matter what, some people will always believe the Sox are holding out. That's fine, but this organization in comparison to the other clubs, does spend a competitive amount. Over the last 5 years, their spending has been in the upper 1/3 (at least) while their attendance is below or barely at MLB average. They spend more than their attendance would dictate.

 

 

I kept being told that all the moves we made last year were for 2010 and if we happened to win the division in 2009 that was supposed to be gravy. Now we're pushing it another year?

 

Just to be clear, I don't think we were told that by the Sox. It was really the media, and those on the message boards and blogs, that kept saying 2009 was not the year, but to look ahead to 2010 and beyond. And when Kenny made the Peavy and Rios moves, the tone was that he believed they were good moves for the present and for the next few years as well. I, too, hope this year doesn't go to waste because I think they have a nice chance here to make a real run with that rotation. As long as the rotation stays healthy, of course.

 

[Ranger]

Dotel is an off or on pitcher, even more so than most. 99% of the time, you can tell from batter #1 if he has it or not. I think Dotel was a fairly effective pitcher in his time here, but I think he could have been even more than that if Ozzie had handled him a little better in that regard.

 

 

I don't think that's true about Dotel. He's on 4 out of 5 times and in those 4, he's really on. It's just that the 5th time is usually explosive. Most relievers are never as good as he is in those 4. You really have to look at relievers around the game. Relief pitchers stink, for the most part.

[NorthSideSox72]

I don't think that's true about Dotel. He's on 4 out of 5 times and in those 4, he's really on. It's just that the 5th time is usually explosive. Most relievers are never as good as he is in those 4. You really have to look at relievers around the game. Relief pitchers stink, for the most part.

I think that's pretty much what I was saying. He's more polar than most - really good, or really bad, no in between. I agree he's better than a lot of those out there, taking it all into account. I just think that, also, you can tell right away with him if he has it or not.

 

[Ranger]

I think that's pretty much what I was saying. He's more polar than most - really good, or really bad, no in between. I agree he's better than a lot of those out there, taking it all into account. I just think that, also, you can tell right away with him if he has it or not.

 

 

I agree with your latter point to an extent. There are times he'll dominate the first hitter he faces, but will give it up to the following guy. The point I was making is that he gets it done more often than most other relievers do...which is part of the reason he's paid as well as he is and why he's been around so long.

 

Contrary to what a lot of fans seem to think, Dotel is not a bum.

[chw42]

Damn, looks like no compensation draft picks then.

 

 

[Princess Dye]

Damn, looks like no compensation draft picks then.

 

If there was someone on the farm who could close, it would've been fun to do the following:

 

Offer Dotel arb. If he gets paid elsewhere, take the compensation pick and keep Jenks

 

If he does not get picked up by another team, you keep him and then trade Jenks for a prospect.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Princess Dye

[Princess Dye]

As a side note, that deal for Peña sure looks necessary today. At some point you have to figure out not every power hitting 1B can be held onto. I guess.

[qwerty]

If there was someone on the farm who could close, it would've been fun to do the following:

 

Offer Dotel arb. If he gets paid elsewhere, take the compensation pick and keep Jenks

 

If he does not get picked up by another team, you keep him and then trade Jenks for a prospect.

 

Dotel would have accepted in roughly less than one second. You do not make a move just because you feel it will be fun to do so.

[Princess Dye]

Dotel would have accepted in roughly less than one second. You do not make a move just because you feel it will be fun to do so.

 

I should probably be banished from all White Sox front office meetings then.

Done.

[Kalapse]

If there was someone on the farm who could close, it would've been fun to do the following:

 

Offer Dotel arb. If he gets paid elsewhere, take the compensation pick and keep Jenks

 

If he does not get picked up by another team, you keep him and then trade Jenks for a prospect.

Except you couldn't do that because Dotel wouldn't hesitate to accept. There's absolutely no way in hell he'd decline arbitration. With most teams hurting financially, a supply of arms on the free agent market and relief pitcher salaries trending downward in recent years he's not going to get a sweeter deal than 1 year, $6.5M anywhere else. I'd also take Jenks closing for $7.5M and a kid taking Dotel's job for the minimum than Dotel at $6.5M, some huge question mark at closer and an extra half-assed prospect you got for Jenks.

[Princess Dye]

I'd also take Jenks closing for $7.5M and a kid taking Dotel's job for the minimum than Dotel at $6.5M, some huge question mark at closer and an extra half-assed prospect you got for Jenks.

 

 

As I said in the original post, the scenario makes sense if you already have a new closer ready for next year. Before jumping all over me people should read what I actually wrote.

 

The reason I bring this up is an organization with large reserves of farm pitching talent can do things like this. Keeping Dotel over Jenks frees up a million and arguably gives you the reliever of greater worth.

 

Arguably--as in it would create a ton of arguments here. But if the Sox really are on a tight budget this offseason, they could use that extra million. Dotel has a live arm and has been steadily what he is. Jenks has been changing as a reliever every year, less Ks at first........ and last year,frankly, less outs.

 

 

 

I think Dotel is the kind of reliever we'll only miss once he's gone..but that's me.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Princess Dye

[EvilJester99]

I wouldn't mind seeing Dotel back if they could get him at a lower contract amount.....

[Ranger]

I think Dotel is the kind of reliever we'll only miss once he's gone..but that's me.

 

 

kind of like people did with Freddy after 2006. During that season, I took countless calls from people that wanted him run out of town. I told them that once he's gone, they'd miss him. Then of course he gets traded for Floyd and, at the time, just about everyone complained that the Sox didn't get enough for him. Of course, they got Gavin Floyd.

[elrockinMT]

Huh? We were lied to? This makes no sense.

 

 

"We will spend the money to win." Short memories I think. The issue with money and spending it on our players and other quality signings seems to change to fit whatever circumstance that is raised at the time. Also by not offering Dye and Dotel, who are both Type A Free Agents I believe means we receive no compensation picks. Am I right or wrong? As I said before I hope there is smothing more going on here than meets the eye and the Master Plan from A-Z works out for the best. I guess you can like an individual player(s) a lot, but the bottom line is winning and being competive for a WS. Right?

Edited December 1, 2009 by elrockinMT

[Kalapse]

As I said in the original post, the scenario makes sense if you already have a new closer ready for next year. Before jumping all over me people should read what I actually wrote.

 

The reason I bring this up is an organization with large reserves of farm pitching talent can do things like this. Keeping Dotel over Jenks frees up a million and arguably gives you the reliever of greater worth.

 

Arguably--as in it would create a ton of arguments here. But if the Sox really are on a tight budget this offseason, they could use that extra million. Dotel has a live arm and has been steadily what he is. Jenks has been changing as a reliever every year, less Ks at first........ and last year,frankly, less outs.

 

 

 

I think Dotel is the kind of reliever we'll only miss once he's gone..but that's me.

Oh, I read it, you mentioned some player in the system that would be capable of closing, sounds like a huge question mark to me. There are very few teams that would trade an established closer and give the job to a prospect with no real big league experience, regardless of his talent. If we had a young relief pitcher that pitched and succeeded in a major league setup role last year that would be a different story and also a rather pointless hypothetical.

 

1 million dollars isn't going to change anything, this isn't a hard cap. It's a self imposed budget with considerable leeway.