Sox will not offer arbitration to Dotel, Dye, Pods or Castro

[elrockinMT]

I think that's pretty much what I was saying. He's more polar than most - really good, or really bad, no in between. I agree he's better than a lot of those out there, taking it all into account. I just think that, also, you can tell right away with him if he has it or not.

 

 

I think you are correct. Problem with a relief pitcher is that sometimes when you find out he's not on it's too late and your gone

[iamshack]

kind of like people did with Freddy after 2006. During that season, I took countless calls from people that wanted him run out of town. I told them that once he's gone, they'd miss him. Then of course he gets traded for Floyd and, at the time, just about everyone complained that the Sox didn't get enough for him. Of course, they got Gavin Floyd.

But did anyone miss him when he was gone?

Garcia was not good in 06' until the last several weeks of the season, when all the sudden he turned into Ed Harris from Major League and almost no-hit the Angels in his second to last start...but I don't think many people missed him, especially when he won like 1 game for the Phillies in 07' before going down with an injury.

[Ranger]

But did anyone miss him when he was gone?

Garcia was not good in 06' until the last several weeks of the season, when all the sudden he turned into Ed Harris from Major League and almost no-hit the Angels in his second to last start...but I don't think many people missed him, especially when he won like 1 game for the Phillies in 07' before going down with an injury.

 

The point was the attitude regarding his departure: he was worthless while he was here, yet when he was traded, those same people thought the Sox should've gotten more for for him in return. It's the overall undervaluing of players while they're here, yet understanding their value after they depart.

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

"We will spend the money to win." Short memories I think. The issue with money and spending it on our players and other quality signings seems to change to fit whatever circumstance that is raised at the time. Also by not offering Dye and Dotel, who are both Type A Free Agents I believe means we receive no compensation picks. Am I right or wrong? As I said before I hope there is smothing more going on here than meets the eye and the Master Plan from A-Z works out for the best. I guess you can like an individual player(s) a lot, but the bottom line is winning and being competive for a WS. Right?

 

I think taking on Peavy's and Rios' contracts more than proved they'll do just that. And if we offered Dotel/Dye arb we still wouldn't get draft picks because the chances of them declining are about the same as Rosie O'Donnell skipping the second helping.

[Soxbadger]

Ranger is talking about how people were jumping off of bridges saying that the Sox got ripped off for Garcia. Those past threads have to be pretty comical.

 

I know that there were only a handful of us in support of the Floyd acquisition.

 

I think in the future the Brandon Allen trade will be sort of like this. After Allen was traded there were people on this board saying that Allen was a future All-Star.

[Kalapse]

Ranger is talking about how people were jumping off of bridges saying that the Sox got ripped off for Garcia. Those past threads have to be pretty comical.

 

I know that there were only a handful of us in support of the Floyd acquisition.

 

I think in the future the Brandon Allen trade will be sort of like this. After Allen was traded there were people on this board saying that Allen was a future All-Star.

Personally, I loved the deal. It got an obviously injured Freddy Garcia out of town for a couple young pitchers, what's not to like?

[knightni]

The problem with Freddy in '06 wasn't that he was "worthless." The problem was that he had a "tired arm", because of the amount of innings that he pitched in the '05 regular and postseason and the '06 WBC. The guy pitched himself into fatigue, ineffectiveness and eventually, surgery.

 

People were mostly frustrated with his lack of effectiveness in '06, without realizing that he was pitching in pain and possibly pitching injured.

[iamshack]

The point was the attitude regarding his departure: he was worthless while he was here, yet when he was traded, those same people thought the Sox should've gotten more for for him in return. It's the overall undervaluing of players while they're here, yet understanding their value after they depart.

Ahh, I agree with that.

I thought your point was that once he was gone, people would miss him.

[Kalapse]

The problem with Freddy in '06 wasn't that he was "worthless." The problem was that he had a "tired arm", because of the amount of innings that he pitched in the '05 regular and postseason and the '06 WBC. The guy pitched himself into fatigue, ineffectiveness and eventually, surgery.

 

People were mostly frustrated with his lack of effectiveness in '06, without realizing that he was pitching in pain and possibly pitching injured.

He pitched much of the '06 season with a torn labrum, thank god the Phillies didn't give him a physical when they acquired him.

[Jordan4life_2007]

The point was the attitude regarding his departure: he was worthless while he was here, yet when he was traded, those same people thought the Sox should've gotten more for for him in return. It's the overall undervaluing of players while they're here, yet understanding their value after they depart.

 

 

Ranger is talking about how people were jumping off of bridges saying that the Sox got ripped off for Garcia. Those past threads have to be pretty comical.

 

I know that there were only a handful of us in support of the Floyd acquisition.

 

I think in the future the Brandon Allen trade will be sort of like this. After Allen was traded there were people on this board saying that Allen was a future All-Star.

 

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=55750

 

There's some funny s*** in this thread. . lmao@tizzle, fathom and milkman. I wasn't too crazy about this trade at the time. But those three went postal.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Jordan4life

[Ranger]

Personally, I loved the deal. It got an obviously injured Freddy Garcia out of town for a couple young pitchers, what's not to like?

 

The problem with Freddy in '06 wasn't that he was "worthless." The problem was that he had a "tired arm", because of the amount of innings that he pitched in the '05 regular and postseason and the '06 WBC. The guy pitched himself into fatigue, ineffectiveness and eventually, surgery.

 

People were mostly frustrated with his lack of effectiveness in '06, without realizing that he was pitching in pain and possibly pitching injured.

 

Which makes it a miracle they got anything of good value in return. The Sox got the package they did (which actually turned out to be pretty good in the end) because just about every other team was worried something was seriously wrong with him. And, of course, it didn't turn out so wonderfully for Philly, which is why you may see an Iguchi-for-nothing type deal here and there. That's because GM's will sometimes do favors for each other if one GM may have gotten completely screwed by another. GM's really aren't trying to "win" deals as a lot of people think, especially if it's obvious the GM you're dealing with will likely be around for a while. You want there to be open lines of communication in case you ever want to make a future beneficial deal.

 

 

Ahh, I agree with that.

I thought your point was that once he was gone, people would miss him.

 

And until the following season started, they DID miss him in the sense that they thought Kenny got taken to the cleaners in the trade. Hopefully, by now, they understand what a terrific trade it turned out to be for the Sox.

 

[Kyyle23]

Once Floyd flashed his complete ownage of the Tigers, I think people started to back off and realize that he is much better than the "total bust" label that followed him to Chicago.

[iamshack]

And until the following season started, they DID miss him in the sense that they thought Kenny got taken to the cleaners in the trade. Hopefully, by now, they understand what a terrific trade it turned out to be for the Sox.

Oh. Well that's not how we're going to miss Dotel. We're actually going to miss Dotel's performance, is the point I am making.

[iamshack]

Once Floyd flashed his complete ownage of the Tigers, I think people started to back off and realize that he is much better than the "total bust" label that followed him to Chicago.

Remember DA and Pratt telling us he was the worst pitcher in the history of baseball?

And I brought up Edwin Jackson and how he was showing signs of improvement, and they said he was the worst-ever too.

[Ranger]

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=55750

 

There's some funny s*** in this thread. lol.

 

 

Oh wow, there is some good stuff in there. I love the guy that said Floyd "has an attitude problem." Like he knew that.

 

It makes you wonder how people still say things like "they shoulda gotten more" or "Kenny's got some 'splainin' to do." I'm curious if there is anyone still posting here that made one of these types of comments and how they feel about it now. I mean it's one thing to have a gut feeling that it's not a good trade, but to be so absolutely certain it is a failure is another thing. You would think people would learn their lessons.

 

 

[iamshack]

Oh wow, there is some good stuff in there. I love the guy that said Floyd "has an attitude problem." Like he knew that.

 

It makes you wonder how people still say things like "they shoulda gotten more" or "Kenny's got some 'splainin' to do." I'm curious if there is anyone still posting here that made one of these types of comments and how they feel about it now. I mean it's one thing to have a gut feeling that it's not a good trade, but to be so absolutely certain it is a failure is another thing. You would think people would learn their lessons.

Oh, there are plenty...

It's quite funny to see Floyd and Fields for Rocco Baldelli as Fathom's "dream trade."

[Jordan4life_2007]

Oh wow, there is some good stuff in there. I love the guy that said Floyd "has an attitude problem." Like he knew that.

 

It makes you wonder how people still say things like "they shoulda gotten more" or "Kenny's got some 'splainin' to do." I'm curious if there is anyone still posting here that made one of these types of comments and how they feel about it now. I mean it's one thing to have a gut feeling that it's not a good trade, but to be so absolutely certain it is a failure is another thing. You would think people would learn their lessons.

 

I stopped playing armchair GM a few years ago. I admit I hated the deal at the time. Although I didn't go crazy like some. I've learned over the years, at least when it comes to trades, that you have to give it time before you can come to any legitimate conclusion.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Oh, there are plenty...

It's quite funny to see Floyd and Fields for Rocco Baldelli as Fathom's "dream trade."

 

fathom and milkman got me rollin' over here. And LMAO@willie. I'm bookmarking this thread.

[Soxbadger]

Plenty of the people in that thread still post daily. There is very little accountability on the internet for a bad opinion.

 

After a few years of posting here, you can tell what the post is going to say by the person who is saying it.

 

[Ranger]

I'm loving this thread. I'm actually wondering where the person who calls himself "Flash Tizzle" is. His post that includes the following is gold:

 

"I knew Williams would f*** up any potential deal for a starting pitcher."

 

If I find any other good ones, I may have to post. Good stuff.

[iamshack]

I'm loving this thread. I'm actually wondering where the person who calls himself "Flash Tizzle" is. His post that includes the following is gold:

 

"I knew Williams would f*** up any potential deal for a starting pitcher."

 

If I find any other good ones, I may have to post. Good stuff.

Flash is one of Kenny's harshest critics. You won't find many deals he is a particularly big fan of...

[fathom]

fathom and milkman got me rollin' over here. And LMAO@willie. I'm bookmarking this thread.

 

Silly me, I didn't know Rocco was going to have an incurable ailment.

[Kyyle23]

I'm loving this thread. I'm actually wondering where the person who calls himself "Flash Tizzle" is. His post that includes the following is gold:

 

"I knew Williams would f*** up any potential deal for a starting pitcher."

 

If I find any other good ones, I may have to post. Good stuff.

 

Flash is the man, he is solid. He loves to talk s*** just because sometimes

[Ranger]

Silly me, I didn't know Rocco was going to have an incurable ailment.

 

 

But you did think the Floyd deal was terrible. I saw your posts.

[fathom]

But you did think the Floyd deal was terrible. I saw your posts.

 

Absolutely...something that a lot of people forget is that it was during the Bulls game where the trade was first announced, and the announcers were saying there was a major leaguer involved in the deal coming to the Sox also. I didn't go back and read the thread, so I can't remember who it was (Rowand maybe?). When we found out the trade was just Gio/Gavin, that's when most of us got really pissed.

Edited December 2, 2009 by fathom