Sox will not offer arbitration to Dotel, Dye, Pods or Castro

[Ranger]

Well, you should be happy people tend to have extreme, knee-jerk reactions, Mr. Rongey. This helps pay your paycheck, doesn't it? Can you imagine the state of sports radio if everyone sat back and thought, "hmm, interesting, what do they know that I don't?"

 

I would have less gray hair. And I don't want gray hair. Happy to have hair, I just don't want it to be gray.

[iamshack]

I would have less gray hair. And I don't want gray hair. Happy to have hair, I just don't want it to be gray.

Ahh, the women like the salt and pepper look...just think, they'll call you the "Silver Fox."

[Ranger]

Never even enters my mind. Ever. It has nothing to do with the present

 

I agree with you. Who cares about the Ritchie trade? It was EIGHT years ago. And it's not like he got absolutely destroyed in the deal. Josh Fogg, Kip Wells, Sean Lowe? That's a huge pile of "eh." Since then, he's aquired Jim Thome, Alexei Ramirez, Jake Peavy, John Danks, and Gavin Floyd...and, really, the only thing he's given up, that's worth anything so far, is Clayton Richard.

 

If you're still "scared" about the Todd Ritchie trade, it's time to re-evaluate.

[Ranger]

Ahh, the women like the salt and pepper look...just think, they'll call you the "Silver Fox."

 

I'm not ready to be a silverfox. Can't handle it.

[bmags]

[quote nam

[Kyyle23]

 

 

you dont say?

[Ranger]

I agree with you. Who cares about the Ritchie trade? It was EIGHT years ago. And it's not like he got absolutely destroyed in the deal. Josh Fogg, Kip Wells, Sean Lowe? That's a huge pile of "eh." Since then, he's aquired Jim Thome, Alexei Ramirez, Jake Peavy, John Danks, and Gavin Floyd...and, really, the only thing he's given up, that's worth anything so far, is Clayton Richard.

 

If you're still "scared" about the Todd Ritchie trade, it's time to re-evaluate.

 

 

Oh, and Vazquez and Rowand (sort of).

[Ranger]

 

I also disagree with this.

[bmags]

I'm in brazil. Internet sucks. Luckily I've made a habit of saving before I hit submit.

 

How fun and active sports talk would be if we all just deferred to management!

 

I'm not saying people were right, I'm saying looking at trade threads and saying "look at how stupid people are! Williams is always right!" isn't fair to the context of what is happening. Look at the time lapse, when people are commenting it is in the first hour as details are still being hashed out. None of us are 'on the record', we are having a conversation, and are talking it out as the details emerge. The latter 100 pages of a thread are never as extreme as the first thirty. Yes, they are knee jerk reactions, but these are from pretty knowledgeable fans who are caught in the moment, and in this instance - the offseason- after weeks of talking out possibilities, when action happens you get the "what the hell" moments. And through the course of the thread as stats and reports are brought in, money is dished out, you see pretty reasonable explanations. If the news broke at 10 am, and we had a radio show at 6 pm, you really wouldn't be hearing the outrageous claims in question.

 

Message boards are just a mass conversation, and when breaking news happens it can be chaos. And it's pretty ridiculous to hold that against people right now.

 

[WCSox]

When they agree to a contract prior to the process. The Sox never go to arbitration with their own players. Honestly I couldn't even tell you the last time that it actually happened.

 

I recall Ron Kittle's arbitration meetings with the Sox being a complete disaster. Reinsdorf et al. came out of that looking extremely petty, and it's probably a reason why they don't do it anymore.

 

[Ranger]

I'm in brazil. Internet sucks. Luckily I've made a habit of saving before I hit submit.

 

How fun and active sports talk would be if we all just deferred to management!

 

I'm not saying people were right, I'm saying looking at trade threads and saying "look at how stupid people are! Williams is always right!" isn't fair to the context of what is happening. Look at the time lapse, when people are commenting it is in the first hour as details are still being hashed out. None of us are 'on the record', we are having a conversation, and are talking it out as the details emerge. The latter 100 pages of a thread are never as extreme as the first thirty. Yes, they are knee jerk reactions, but these are from pretty knowledgeable fans who are caught in the moment, and in this instance - the offseason- after weeks of talking out possibilities, when action happens you get the "what the hell" moments. And through the course of the thread as stats and reports are brought in, money is dished out, you see pretty reasonable explanations. If the news broke at 10 am, and we had a radio show at 6 pm, you really wouldn't be hearing the outrageous claims in question.

 

Message boards are just a mass conversation, and when breaking news happens it can be chaos. And it's pretty ridiculous to hold that against people right now.

 

I'm sorry, I guess I just don't understand "caught in the moment." The details were known at the time of the very first posts. And it was immediate that people decided KW should be fired or that he didn't know what he was doing.

 

I simply don't understand that if you admit you don't know all of the details and don't know much about the players, how you could be so ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that the trade was terrible. It doesn't make sense. I don't see how being rational is hard to do. Maybe it's just how I think and I should realize not everybody looks at things the same way I look at things. If I'm surprised by a trade, it's not my first reaction to flip out. I usually immediately step back and think, "what is possibly the thought process behind this?"

 

I'm not saying all of his deals are good ones, but I think he's earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to making trades.

Edited December 2, 2009 by Ranger

[SoxAce]

 

This is by far the best post in this entire thread.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'm in brazil. Internet sucks. Luckily I've made a habit of saving before I hit submit.

 

How fun and active sports talk would be if we all just deferred to management!

 

I'm not saying people were right, I'm saying looking at trade threads and saying "look at how stupid people are! Williams is always right!" isn't fair to the context of what is happening. Look at the time lapse, when people are commenting it is in the first hour as details are still being hashed out. None of us are 'on the record', we are having a conversation, and are talking it out as the details emerge. The latter 100 pages of a thread are never as extreme as the first thirty. Yes, they are knee jerk reactions, but these are from pretty knowledgeable fans who are caught in the moment, and in this instance - the offseason- after weeks of talking out possibilities, when action happens you get the "what the hell" moments. And through the course of the thread as stats and reports are brought in, money is dished out, you see pretty reasonable explanations. If the news broke at 10 am, and we had a radio show at 6 pm, you really wouldn't be hearing the outrageous claims in question.

 

Message boards are just a mass conversation, and when breaking news happens it can be chaos. And it's pretty ridiculous to hold that against people right now.

 

So why don't people learn from previous experiences? As bad as that thread was, the Brandon Allen trade thread was worse. Fact is you're always going to have fans out there that think they know it all when in reality they don't know half as much as they think they do (and that includes myself).

Edited December 2, 2009 by Jordan4life

[southsider2k5]

I recall Ron Kittle's arbitration meetings with the Sox being a complete disaster. Reinsdorf et al. came out of that looking extremely petty, and it's probably a reason why they don't do it anymore.

 

And that was what, 25 years ago? What other cases have we had since then? Any?

[qwerty]

Free Agency Arbitration

Free Agency arbitration differs from reserve clause salary arbitration in that the player may ultimately choose which team controls his rights. When a player reaches free agency, there is a cutoff date by which his team can choose whether or not to offer him arbitration. If such an offer is made, it extends the exclusive negotiating window between the player and the team that held his rights. If no such offer is made, or if the player declines an offer of arbitration, the player cannot re-sign with that team until May 31 of the following season. Once a player accepts arbitration, his rights are assigned to that team for the next full season and a hearing is scheduled as part of the arbitration process (see below). As with reserve clause salary arbitration, a player and the offering team can avoid arbitration by agreeing to contract terms prior to the hearing. Otherwise the arbitration process moves forward.

 

That is from sons of sam horn, which is outdated.

 

It used to be this way (sorta) in the old collective bargaining agreement. Under the old rules, you had to sign your own free agents before the deadline to offer arbitration. If a team offered arbitration but the player declined they could still negotiate with that player until january 8th. If the two sides could still not come to an agreement by then, that player could not be resigned by that team until may 1st, not may 31st. If the team never offered arbitration they didn't even have a window to work with, and the earliest that player could be resigned was may 1st. A lot of times teams and players would agree that if the team offered arbitration the player would decline... to extend their negotiation period.

 

Under the new cba even if arbitration is offered and declined... or not offered at all... the team and player can still negotiate throughout all of the off-season.

[iamshack]

That is from sons of sam horn, which is outdated.

 

Under the new cba even if arbitration is offered and declined... or not offered at all... the team and player can still negotiate throughout all of the off-season.

 

Well that's good, because the old way sucks.

[beck72]

Looking back at the Garcia for Floyd/ Gio trade thread, shows how much emotion plays into the initial reactions. Most of the strong sentiment was against. Freddy had led the sox to a World Series, and a lot of fans probably felt some attachment to hold onto a key piece of that series win. The return looked less than impressive--yet with his salary for 2007 and late season fade in 2006, it seemed fair at the time, if Garcia hadn't been injured.

 

The sox scouting department and management team isn't and shouldn't be sentimental. A lot of fans are, though, based on familiarity. We know the players traded and are often unfamiliar with those the sox acquire. This often leads fans to overvaluing the traded players and undervaluing those the sox get in return. The sox have done a very nice job of evaluating the talent they have in system and turning those guys into serviceable players via trade. Not all the sox trades have been "wins". But the "losses" haven't really come back to really hurt the sox.

 

 

 

 

 

[iamshack]

I'm sorry, I guess I just don't understand "caught in the moment." The details were known at the time of the very first posts. And it was immediate that people decided KW should be fired or that he didn't know what he was doing.

 

I simply don't understand that if you admit you don't know all of the details and don't know much about the players, how you could be so ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that the trade was terrible. It doesn't make sense. I don't see how being rational is hard to do. Maybe it's just how I think and I should realize not everybody looks at things the same way I look at things. If I'm surprised by a trade, it's not my first reaction to flip out. I usually immediately step back and think, "what is possibly the thought process behind this?"

 

I'm not saying all of his deals are good ones, but I think he's earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to making trades.

 

Mr. Rongey, I think you're absolutely correct, and you seem to be a very rational person, which is probably one of the reasons you were hired to do what you do.

 

But let's face it....people are this way with EVERYTHING. Everyone likes to add their two cents, everyone always thinks they know everything. And honestly, ridiculous over-reactions like this are part of what drives all mediums that revolve around conversation.

 

The best thing about it being able to go back and laugh at yourself (and others) for what they said at the time.

[Flash Tizzle]

Quote nam, our generations Vietnam.

[NorthSideSox72]

Mr. Rongey, I think you're absolutely correct, and you seem to be a very rational person, which is probably one of the reasons you were hired to do what you do.

 

But let's face it....people are this way with EVERYTHING. Everyone likes to add their two cents, everyone always thinks they know everything. And honestly, ridiculous over-reactions like this are part of what drives all mediums that revolve around conversation.

 

The best thing about it being able to go back and laugh at yourself (and others) for what they said at the time.

Not really. Certainly, anyone who posts on a board like this will be opinionated. But not everyone is going to jump off a cliff on first word of a trade, while knowing next to nothing about the players involved.

 

As for the second bolded, if conversation is driven by hyperbole, that isn't really conversation, its just yelling for the sake of yelling. Utterly pointless.

 

[iamshack]

Not really. Certainly, anyone who posts on a board like this will be opinionated. But not everyone is going to jump off a cliff on first word of a trade, while knowing next to nothing about the players involved.

 

As for the second bolded, if conversation is driven by hyperbole, that isn't really conversation, its just yelling for the sake of yelling. Utterly pointless.

As for your first comment, I'm generalizing. Next time I'll use the phrase "the vast majority." There is a minority that does not immediately praise or condemn a trade, including myself.

 

As for your second comment, again generalizing a bit, but apparently you don't listen to White Sox or Bears post game shows...