Winter Meetings?

[266344]

FoxSports is reporting the Marlins are close to trading Lindstrom. Sounds like a "Buy Low" kind of deal.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

BJ Upton is not a guy you just write-off. He's a guy who if everything works out, you build around. He's got ELITE potential, even if he falls short of that he still puts up numbers in every offensive and defensive category. So, yeah i'd say he's worth a closer who we're scapegoating, and a promising catcher with 3 hits in the MLB.

Not only that, but if the Rays did Jenks + Flowers for Upton they might as well change their name for the 2nd time and start calling themselves the Tampa Bay Schiavos.

[Quin]

From the Tribune, Ozzie's take on the leadoff spot:

 

Manager Ozzie Guillen is fully aware that there are four months left until the White Sox's 2010 regular season opener against Cleveland, so he was careful about any thought of selecting rookie sensation Gordon Beckham as his leadoff hitter.

 

"A lot of people are saying that," Guillen said Saturday night at the Fairmont Hotel, where he was participating in the Easter Seals of Metropolitan Chicago (ESMC) Holiday Gala. "He's the one in the lineup I have right now. Is he ideal? That's the only (one) have.

 

"But I really like to have someone else out there. Bekcham is a very, very good RBI man. And I don't want to take the bat away from him, and hoepfully we find someone to take his spot."

 

Guillen is aware that general manager Ken Williams is searching for a leadoff batter.

 

"We tried to find one," Guillen said. "It's not easy. We tried looking for one, the one out there is very expensive, and the one is not there, we have to make big trades.

 

 

If they don't find a legit guy there are a lot worse scenerios than having perhaps your best hitter bat the most times. I would imagine the one that was out there was Figgins.

 

I really, really don't want to see Gordon leadoff. He could be a #3 bat in the lineup if all goes well.

 

Why is that so hard to believe? Thome is from the Peoria area

 

Most people think of Northern Illinois (not the University, the direction) when they think of Illinois. While the North part has big cities, the rest is like...empty.

 

Not only that, but if the Rays did Jenks + Flowers for Upton they might as well change their name for the 2nd time and start calling themselves the Tampa Bay Schiavos.

 

The guy still hit .241 last year, so it's not like he can command a farm. He could command a proven closer, a top prospect, and maybe one or two lesser 'spects.

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

FoxSports is reporting the Marlins are close to trading Lindstrom. Sounds like a "Buy Low" kind of deal.

His overall numbers last year - in the NL and in a much friendlier park - were worse than Linebrink's overall numbers last year, and his first half was nothing short of revolting. On top of that he's 30 next year and is about to hit that indiscriminate auto-reward system that is arbitration for relief pitchers in baseball. I agree we would be buying low - too low in fact, as our standards should be just a *little* bit higher.

 

That said, watch Kenny trade a good prospect for this guy.

[beck72]

The key point in that article though is "arbitration eligible." Jenks, Danks, Q, Pena, Carrasco, and Teahen are all due for raises in arbitration as it is. There's no reason to trade talent for a project who we may be forced to overpay before we even find out if he's going to work for us or not. We should scour the Rule-5 eligible players list for another lefty to compete with Williams (assuming we keep Jenks) and then, if we really do want another righty reliever (which I don't think we do - I think we'll go in-house) then instead of paying $1-2M+ in arb AND giving up talent off the farm, we should just try to put that money towards a veteran in FA and look for both proven success and cost certainty without giving up a prospect.

Lindstrom should still be very affordable. The key is health. If his arm is in good shape, he had numbers and stuff better than Tony Pena [and would likely cost less in terms of talent than Brandon Allen]. Lindstrom supposedly can hit the high 90's, with decent other pitches to keep hitters from sitting on his FB.

 

With the sox pen set up the way it is, a RHP who can hit the mid to upper 90's, and have a high K rate would fit in nicely. A solid dependable bullpen arm-someone who acn work the 7th, 8th innings-- isn't likely to be found in the Rule 5 draft. It may not be Lindstrom. Yet the trade route may be the only place to find one.

 

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

The guy still hit .241 last year, so it's not like he can command a farm. He could command a proven closer, a top prospect, and maybe one or two lesser 'spects.

Upton will be 25 next year, he's under control for 3 seasons, and he's one of the most talented players in baseball in terms of the things he is able to do physically. This is a CF whose MLB career highs in the following categories are: AVG .300, OBP .386, SLG .508, HR 24, 2B 37, BB 97, SB 44. At the age of 25 he should be expected to put up some of those numbers again, if not improve upon them, and if he puts it all together in a healthy season? Wow. His ceiling is enormous; far, far higher than any player we have on the farm. Tampa Bay has no need to move him, they're just capable of considering it because of the sheer amount of talent they have in the minor leagues.

 

Jenks is essentially a 1-year commitment to an upper-level closer coming off a down year at a price that is very near market value. He does have value, but not a ton of it. Flowers is a very nice catching prospect, but his ceiling isn't Mike Piazza or anything, in fact the contact and defense concerns are still pretty serious with him. Offering 1-2 more lesser prospects isn't going to do it either. Maybe if we offered Jenks + 3 top prospects including Hudson we could get something done, but we'd really have to blow TB away with an offer of several players that they believe in if we want to get Upton.

 

The other thing is, TB has such a deep system with so many young guys either already producing big at the MLB level or right on the cusp of doing it that we're not going to have the "readiness vs. ceiling" thing in our favor like may be the case with the Padres and Gonzalez. With the Padres, they need to put talented prospects out there right now and build a new core immediately if they want to contend 2 years from now. That's not the case with TB, so TB could easily go after someone else and look for 4-5 players who have some pretty sick ceilings but are a little ways away. BJ isn't going to come cheap at all, and IMO a Jenks + Flowers + 1-2 other players not named Hudson or Viciedo is a pretty cheap offer.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Lindstrom should still be very affordable. The key is health. If his arm is in good shape, he had numbers and stuff better than Tony Pena [and would likely cost less in terms of talent than Brandon Allen]. Lindstrom supposedly can hit the high 90's, with decent other pitches to keep hitters from sitting on his FB.

 

With the sox pen set up the way it is, a RHP who can hit the mid to upper 90's, and have a high K rate would fit in nicely. A solid dependable bullpen arm-someone who acn work the 7th, 8th innings-- isn't likely to be found in the Rule 5 draft. It may not be Lindstrom. Yet the trade route may be the only place to find one.

I think he would be a great fit for the Oakland A's or somebody like that. Teams with money to spend and no real interest in trying to contend would be a good landing place because he's still a project.

 

The Sox are looking to win in 2010 and quite honestly we already have enough projects as it is in the bullpen. Pena is still a project, Linebrink the same in the second half, plus we have several pre-arb players of our own with MLB arms but serious control issues. The Sox sound like they may only have a few million left to spend, and they have quite a few in-house relievers that are close, so if they're going to spend a couple dimes of that 50 cents on an insurance option for the pen, then they should at least target someone who has more than one good year in the Majors (2007) on his resume and isn't coming off a season with a 1.65 WHIP. I don't care if the guy they target doesn't have Lindstrom's stuff either, just get a guy who can keep his walks down and ideally can keep his H/9 pretty well below Lindstrom's career 9.3 H/9. I don't want to see another MacDougal/Aardsma/etc. unless we're either out of it or we're giving a young guy with 3 pre-arb years left a chance.

[elrockinMT]

Why is that so hard to believe? Thome is from the Peoria area

 

 

What do Illinois people consider a ranch is my point/question-I know JT lives or is from the Peoria area

[Kyyle23]

What do Illinois people consider a ranch is my point/question-I know JT lives or is from the Peoria area

 

No, there really is no point or question there. JT has a house, and presumably a lot of open land that they hunt and fish on. Kind of like a ranch in every other part of the US

[simba43]

Upton will be 25 next year, he's under control for 3 seasons, and he's one of the most talented players in baseball in terms of the things he is able to do physically. This is a CF whose MLB career highs in the following categories are: AVG .300, OBP .386, SLG .508, HR 24, 2B 37, BB 97, SB 44. At the age of 25 he should be expected to put up some of those numbers again, if not improve upon them, and if he puts it all together in a healthy season? Wow. His ceiling is enormous; far, far higher than any player we have on the farm. Tampa Bay has no need to move him, they're just capable of considering it because of the sheer amount of talent they have in the minor leagues.

 

Jenks is essentially a 1-year commitment to an upper-level closer coming off a down year at a price that is very near market value. He does have value, but not a ton of it. Flowers is a very nice catching prospect, but his ceiling isn't Mike Piazza or anything, in fact the contact and defense concerns are still pretty serious with him. Offering 1-2 more lesser prospects isn't going to do it either. Maybe if we offered Jenks + 3 top prospects including Hudson we could get something done, but we'd really have to blow TB away with an offer of several players that they believe in if we want to get Upton.

 

The other thing is, TB has such a deep system with so many young guys either already producing big at the MLB level or right on the cusp of doing it that we're not going to have the "readiness vs. ceiling" thing in our favor like may be the case with the Padres and Gonzalez. With the Padres, they need to put talented prospects out there right now and build a new core immediately if they want to contend 2 years from now. That's not the case with TB, so TB could easily go after someone else and look for 4-5 players who have some pretty sick ceilings but are a little ways away. BJ isn't going to come cheap at all, and IMO a Jenks + Flowers + 1-2 other players not named Hudson or Viciedo is a pretty cheap offer.

Agreed why people are thinking we can get upton for jenks and flowers must think the rays are just stupid . honestly i don't think the rays will trade him but if they do it won't be for jenks start thinking hudson flowers maybe another top prospect to start with it might cost us almost as much as to get upton as would AGON .

[Kyyle23]

Today is the day! Let the fun begin!

[witesoxfan]

Agreed why people are thinking we can get upton for jenks and flowers must think the rays are just stupid . honestly i don't think the rays will trade him but if they do it won't be for jenks start thinking hudson flowers maybe another top prospect to start with it might cost us almost as much as to get upton as would AGON .

 

If the Rays move Upton, it's not going to cost anything near what it would take to get Gonzalez.

Edited December 7, 2009 by witesoxfan

[witesoxfan]

apparently Ozzie Guillen is talking right now and will talk until 2:30 CT. And then the quotes will be coming up. Not sure it's going to be anything ground breaking, but you never know.

[southsider2k5]

apparently Ozzie Guillen is talking right now and will talk until 2:30 CT. And then the quotes will be coming up. Not sure it's going to be anything ground breaking, but you never know.

 

If people follow Reifort on Facebook, he is throwing up all of his good quotes.

[southsider2k5]

If people follow Reifort on Facebook, he is throwing up all of his good quotes.

 

and both he and Gonzales are throwing stuff up on Twitter, such as this...

 

MDGonzales

 

Guillen: "I don't think Viciedo is ready.'

[BigSqwert]

From moron's twitter:

OZ just spoke and said that his starting outfield today would be Rios CF, Quentin in RF and Jones in LF

 

Ugh

[Kalapse]

From moron's twitter:

 

 

Ugh

Who else would it be? De Aza? Danks? Viciedo? We only have 2 starting outfielders right now.

[southsider2k5]

Who else would it be? De Aza? Danks? Viciedo? We only have 2 starting outfielders right now.

 

Which is why they are still looking for a guy who can play the OF and lead off.

[BigSqwert]

I'm just worried Ozzie will throw Jones out there more than he should, regardless of any others acquisitions.

 

After all...he's a veteran!

Edited December 7, 2009 by BigSqwert

[jphat007]

Ugh I hope KW acts sooner rather than later. Thinking of that OF makes my head explode

[chetkincaid]

SCOTT PODSEDNIK.... COME ONNNNN DOWN...

 

That's so sad...

 

I kinda hope that the Royals do swoop in and scoop him up. Maybe then Kenny would be forced to do something drastic.

 

But then who would we get?

 

My head hurts...

Edited December 7, 2009 by Chet Kincaid

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Ugh I hope KW acts sooner rather than later. Seeing people constantly complaining about the OF ad nauseum on December 7th is getting ridiculous.

 

Fixed.

[BFirebird]

Ugh I hope KW acts sooner rather than later. Seeing people constantly complaining about the OF ad nauseum on December 7th is getting ridiculous.

 

Fixed.

Agreed. What is Ozzie supposed to say at this point? Like Kal said...they only have 2 starting OFers right now.

[BigSqwert]

Fixed.

As you like to tell others, don't read the thread.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

As you like to tell others, don't read the thread.

 

Kinda hard when every thread ends up turning into the same thing...