NorthSideSox72 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Looking at Fox's career, he really only had two very good partial seasons in the minors, and I see no indication of a guy likely to hit anything like 40 HR. I don't see him being much of a DH, he'd probably be one of the weakest in the league. But... if we think he can handle catching pretty well, I might like the idea of him being the backup C. He can also get some AB's in the OF, and at 1B. If he can be had without giving up any significant prospects, he'd be a cheap option there and have a better bat than most backup catchers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 3, 2009 -> 10:50 AM) Looking at Fox's career, he really only had two very good partial seasons in the minors, and I see no indication of a guy likely to hit anything like 40 HR. I don't see him being much of a DH, he'd probably be one of the weakest in the league. But... if we think he can handle catching pretty well, I might like the idea of him being the backup C. He can also get some AB's in the OF, and at 1B. If he can be had without giving up any significant prospects, he'd be a cheap option there and have a better bat than most backup catchers. He caught in 3 games last year for 7 innings. I saw at least one of those and I seem to remember Len and Bob kind of tongue in cheeking the commentary about his skills/comfort level back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Dec 3, 2009 -> 11:05 AM) He caught in 3 games last year for 7 innings. I saw at least one of those and I seem to remember Len and Bob kind of tongue in cheeking the commentary about his skills/comfort level back there. Yeah, but he spent most of his minor league career behind the plate. My assumption is (could be wrong) that Fox was moved because the Cubs had a catching logjam anyway, and due to injuries to Johnson and Bradley, needed another OF. He didn't become a OF/1B until 2007. But I also can't find any scouting reports on his defense at C - they may have moved him because of that. If anyone knows about that, I'd be curious to hear it. Bottom line though, he's a very weak option at DH, but may possibly be a backup C option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 3, 2009 -> 11:09 AM) Yeah, but he spent most of his minor league career behind the plate. My assumption is (could be wrong) that Fox was moved because the Cubs had a catching logjam anyway, and due to injuries to Johnson and Bradley, needed another OF. He didn't become a OF/1B until 2007. But I also can't find any scouting reports on his defense at C - they may have moved him because of that. If anyone knows about that, I'd be curious to hear it. Bottom line though, he's a very weak option at DH, but may possibly be a backup C option. Doesn't it seem like a huge mistake for them to move him from such a valuable position though rather than trade him? I guess I could understand it more if the Cubs were an AL team, but given that Fox would have to play the field or pinch hit for them, it seems like he would have tremendously more value as a trade piece as opposed to trying to force him to a different postion which his skillset does not support. My guess is that it is their opinion he does not have the skills to be a major league catcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 3, 2009 -> 11:09 AM) Yeah, but he spent most of his minor league career behind the plate. My assumption is (could be wrong) that Fox was moved because the Cubs had a catching logjam anyway, and due to injuries to Johnson and Bradley, needed another OF. He didn't become a OF/1B until 2007. But I also can't find any scouting reports on his defense at C - they may have moved him because of that. If anyone knows about that, I'd be curious to hear it. Bottom line though, he's a very weak option at DH, but may possibly be a backup C option. That is certainly something we agree on. I would have to get a better gauge on him at C, the one thing that would make me thing it could possibly work is how much AJ catches, backup catchers with the White Sox flat out don't work very much! Although, even if he's passable at C I might want to lean towards a strong defensive catcher so against certain teams with certain of our SPs on the mound they have a chance to throw out a runner or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 3, 2009 -> 11:12 AM) Doesn't it seem like a huge mistake for them to move him from such a valuable position though rather than trade him? I guess I could understand it more if the Cubs were an AL team, but given that Fox would have to play the field or pinch hit for them, it seems like he would have tremendously more value as a trade piece as opposed to trying to force him to a different postion which his skillset does not support. My guess is that it is their opinion he does not have the skills to be a major league catcher. The Cubs are about the worst team in the majors at handling young players, do not try to figure out why they do some of the ridiculous things they do as it can lead to a brain aneurysm. Fox would be a good bat to have, could play both CI positions, emergency C and possibly DH. He could probably replace PK's production from last season right now, at a lot lower cost - plus he still has some upside to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I know I've only seen a limited amount of Jake Fox in the majors, but I would be hesitant to pencil him in for 25-30 HRs, 85-90 RBIs and a .350 OBP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Dec 3, 2009 -> 02:52 PM) Teams are not going to give the cubs the value they desire. When his options run out then they will essentially have to give him away. Let's wait then Why give up someone for a fill in or reserve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 3, 2009 -> 10:50 AM) Looking at Fox's career, he really only had two very good partial seasons in the minors, and I see no indication of a guy likely to hit anything like 40 HR. I don't see him being much of a DH, he'd probably be one of the weakest in the league. I know there's not really alot of value in arguing about a 26 year old with a total of 230 MLB at-bats... But Fox has better offensive skills than some people in this thread realize. He has good bad control and not any real obvious holes in his swing. Plus he's one of those guys that can muscle the ball out of the park even when he doesn't hit it well. 3 times in the minors he was having .950 or greater OPS seasons that were cut off by promotions... where, of course, he spent some time adjusting and it affected his overall numbers. He was putting up absolutely freaking Nintendo numbers in AAA before his promotion to the Cubs last year: .409 BA, .495 OBP, and .841 SLG for a ridiculous 1.336 OPS. Small sample size of 164 at-bats but 34 extra-base hits in 164 AB's is pretty impressive nonetheless. That said... I'm not on a bandwagon to acquire him. I just think he's better than some people are suggesting and could be a diamond in the rough pickup for some team. Edited December 3, 2009 by scenario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowand's rowdies Posted December 3, 2009 Author Share Posted December 3, 2009 some good arguing back and forth with some good arguments. i'm not sold on him as our only DH option, but a great piece to have. the cubs are a terrible org and have used him terribly. i dont know about you guys, but in last year's crosstown classic, he scared the s*** outta me, and hit the ball hard every at bat. of course the cubs, being the cubs, didnt play him very much. jon garland didnt get much of a chance there... lou doesnt like young players, so thats why he never got much of a chance. for him to get what he did was a positive sign. i think we tend to worry too much about position. they are all major league baseball players. if push came to shove, most of them can play some position, and being in the AL, we always have DH to fall back on. i dont think fox takes too much to acquire. the cubs are terrible at evaluating trades, so we could prolly unload a couple mid level prospects to get him? I really have no idea. a power bat for the sox, no matter what, is always a good add. injuries happen, the bench is never good enough, and when the guy has played 5 positions (RF, LF, C, 1B, 3B), no matter what the time spent there, shows some versatility. if he can't start, welcome to a bench of viquel, kotsay, jones, flowers, and fox. that'll work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Interesting, but obviously 40 hr 100 rbi is pretty hysterical. Ryan HOward he ain´t. BUT I do like his bat, and like the outside the box thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Okay I'm game. So what would it take to get him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Dec 3, 2009 -> 11:05 AM) He caught in 3 games last year for 7 innings. I saw at least one of those and I seem to remember Len and Bob kind of tongue in cheeking the commentary about his skills/comfort level back there. Last year when Soto went on the DL for a month, offensvie juggernaut Koyie Hill caught something like 25 straight games or so, including a doubleheader, when Fox was the backup catcher. I think that tells you his potential to be a backup behind the plate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 (edited) Bernstein just said he's about to be traded to Oakland w/ aaron miles I think he mentioned Jack Cust going back.... Edited December 3, 2009 by Princess Dye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 per Bernstein on the Score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 lol, they are going to put Cust in the OF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Dec 2, 2009 -> 10:11 PM) ...like Oakland. just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YonderLaroche Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 JAKE FOX/JIM THOME COMPARISON AVG .259/.249 AB 216/345 Plate appearances 241/417 SO 45/116 BB 14/69 HR 11/23 RBI 44/74 R 23/55 SLG .468/.493 OPS .774/.864 2B 12/15 Very similar numbers, even if you doubled Fox's numbers (and almost matched plate apperances) Thome would still have better numbers... but Thome batted cleanup all season and I believe Fox batted 6th-8th in lineup.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 QUOTE (b-Rye @ Dec 3, 2009 -> 05:29 PM) JAKE FOX/JIM THOME COMPARISON AVG .259/.249 AB 216/345 Plate appearances 241/417 SO 45/116 BB 14/69 HR 11/23 RBI 44/74 R 23/55 SLG .468/.493 OPS .774/.864 2B 12/15 Very similar numbers, even if you doubled Fox's numbers (and almost matched plate apperances) Thome would still have better numbers... but Thome batted cleanup all season and I believe Fox batted 6th-8th in lineup.. Except Jim Thome walked nearly 3 times more often than Jake Fox. I'm thinking that makes a rather large difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 3, 2009 -> 05:16 PM) Bernstein just said he's about to be traded to Oakland w/ aaron miles I think he mentioned Jack Cust going back.... Bernsie was calling Jake Fox the right-handed Jack Cust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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