Molto Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 http://www.soxnet.net/snreport/373-12.3.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wsc425 Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 This trade is going to put the White Sox over the top. Trading Keith Foulke, Mark Johnson, Joe Valentine, and cash considerations to Oakland for Billy Koch, and two players to be named. You have to love this trade!!! This trade shows us that Kenny Williams does care about this team. Foulke isn't the greatest either. Johnson was horrible. Valentine was claimed off waivers. The two players to be named are going to be mid level prospects, I even heard one of them was a big prospect. :metal -KW, I will move my finger over a little, your on my good side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 Originally posted by wsc425This trade is going to put the White Sox over the top. Trading Keith Foulke, Mark Johnson, Joe Valentine, and cash considerations to Oakland for Billy Koch, and two players to be named. You have to love this trade!!! This trade shows us that Kenny Williams does care about this team. Foulke isn't the greatest either. Johnson was horrible. Valentine was claimed off waivers. The two players to be named are going to be mid level prospects, I even heard one of them was a big prospect. :metal -KW, I will move my finger over a little, your on my good side. You're one of the only one's I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 I'll like the trade as well as long as the two prospects we get are decent. Mark Johnson is completely worthless, Foulke would have been gone after next season and Valentine got drilled and hurt in Arizona. Meanwhile, Koch throws 100mph and won the Rolaids Relief award and we have him for 3 seasons. I think we will get the better end of the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 Originally posted by abozichiuI think we will get the better end of the deal. Let's hope so anyways... As for Johnson being worthless...I disagree heavily. I, along with several others, feel that MJ is a great catcher...if he remains the backup. What kind of role do you think he will take in Oakland? They got him because he will cost less and be better than Greg Myers...who I think we should sign. I'm starting to like this trade...the only negative is losing Joe...that pisses me off, and I would like to slap KW for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted December 3, 2002 Author Share Posted December 3, 2002 we should sign a veteran lefty like Krueter now. someone who can battle with Paul for the backup stop. we can't go into ST with two catcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 Koch and Williams interviews Listen to these interviews...Williams sounds like the clown that he is(at one point he says that this is a baseball move...no s***!)...but I think I am going to like this move after all...Koch sounds like a good guy that will only help team chemistry. Even though he looks like a mean son of a b**** on the mound, he was kidding around with the reporters and is a real laid back guy...he also said that while he was talking on the phone with Billy Beane he said "Maybe if I sucked I would have been able to stay." Next year will be fun...we will be pretty good. Forgot to add...don't bother with the story. Soxnet has that for us already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 I read some more things that Koch said and he seems like a great guy. He said something along the lines of I cant wait to meet the guys. And I also heard he is a real fan favorite. Im starting to like this guy already, hopefully he wont be TR in relief... lol... And yes he does look like a mean son of a b**** on the mound. But thats a good thing. Its intimidating. Who would you rather face, some guy whos out there singing and laughing or some guy who looks like hes gonna kill ya? Id rather face the former... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 i hate to be the eternal pessimist, but i think we gave up too much. comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 Originally posted by greg775i hate to be the eternal pessimist, but i think we gave up too much. comments? Man, I'm so excited about this deal. Ya we gave up Valentine, but like I've always said, I don't care about minor league relievers, especially when you have a plethora of them. This move is awesome, especially if we get two decent prospects in return. I think we all now know the reason Valentine was shut down in the AFL. The Sox must of been ready to move him then or at least considering it and they knew if he continued to stink it up he'd lose his value quick. Next off we dumped MJ, and I know many said hey we knew what we had with him, but in him we had a bum. I don't like to know we have a guy that hits .210 from the left side. Thats pathetic especially when you don't have a good arm either. I'll take Josh Paul and a .250 avg that I know he could put up. Greg, I remember you talking about how you liked Paul, this at least gives him the shot to be the Sox backup catcher, although I love the idea of picking up Kreuter. Still, Koch is a stud reliever whose actually going to be here for the next 3 years. Foulke would be gone after this year and if we dealt him midseason we would never of been able to get a proven major league closer in return, especially one thats only 27 and is just about ready to enter the prime of his career. Great move KW GREAT MOVE :metal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 haha, damn this deal is the s***. Koch is a badass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 See Jason, I'm positive for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted December 4, 2002 Author Share Posted December 4, 2002 I'm confused. I thought everyone would hate this trade. either way I like Koch and think he has a good upside over Foulke, but I still want to know who the other two minor leaguers are. that is the key. whether they are good or bad though, the point is this trade is over with, we have Billy Koch as our closer, and now have to direct our attention to four other scenarios. #1. Frank Thomas #2. Mark Buehrle #3. a starting pitcher #4. a third catcher for ST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 Originally posted by Moltowe should sign a veteran lefty like Krueter now. someone who can battle with Paul for the backup stop. we can't go into ST with two catcher How about I-rod? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 I'm gonna dig up some info on the one minor leaguer they are saying we acquired. So far they haven't listed the name of the other and I'm guessing its because he's not on the A's 40 man roster. His name is Neal Cotts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 well i went over to the oakland boards and they love this trade...while all of them said billy koch was a great person , they did say every save with him is an adventure...he did win 11 games last year..alot of those wins came after he blew a save or a tie game and the A's came back to win... looking over the last 2 seasons, and the last 4 (all of koch's career) foulke's numbers beat koch's..especially WHIP..billy's is very high for a closer.. koch had a horrible season in '01...4.80 era and blew 8 saves...yet he was never pulled from his closer role and was able to rebound...kieth foulke after a few bad outings was pulled from his closer role and eventhough he had a 2nd half era last year of 0.74 was never given his closer role back...every closer struggles at some point in his career..they all , except for foulke get a chance to regain their form...if he struggles out the gate next season it could be a disaster for us... but koch could probably blow 50 save opportunities and still get the ball because he is one of KW's boys..so i guess in that respect if billy does struggle he will get a fair shot to right the ship..something foulke never got... this trade..like every other KW makes...will probably come back to haunt us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 Originally posted by ChisoxfnI'm gonna dig up some info on the one minor leaguer they are saying we acquired. So far they haven't listed the name of the other and I'm guessing its because he's not on the A's 40 man roster. His name is Neal Cotts. cotts pitched in low level A ball with an era of 4.12...got along way to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 I WANT VALENTINE BACK !!!!!!!!!!!! I KNEW IT WOULD BE ONE OF "MY GUYS" WHO WENT I JUST KNEW IT... DAMN KW....... other wise i like the deal........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 Originally posted by baggio202well i went over to the oakland boards and they love this trade...while all of them said billy koch was a great person , they did say every save with him is an adventure...he did win 11 games last year..alot of those wins came after he blew a save or a tie game and the A's came back to win... looking over the last 2 seasons, and the last 4 (all of koch's career) foulke's numbers beat koch's..especially WHIP..billy's is very high for a closer.. koch had a horrible season in '01...4.80 era and blew 8 saves...yet he was never pulled from his closer role and was able to rebound...kieth foulke after a few bad outings was pulled from his closer role and eventhough he had a 2nd half era last year of 0.74 was never given his closer role back...every closer struggles at some point in his career..they all , except for foulke get a chance to regain their form...if he struggles out the gate next season it could be a disaster for us... but koch could probably blow 50 save opportunities and still get the ball because he is one of KW's boys..so i guess in that respect if billy does struggle he will get a fair shot to right the ship..something foulke never got... this trade..like every other KW makes...will probably come back to haunt us... I'd lay all of the blame of Foulke not getting a shot at his closing role again on Manuel...he figured if it ain't broke why fix it? Problem was the season was broken...so why not try different things to make it work again? He never did. However, Foulke lost the job mainly because he blew 3 pretty big games...the Seattle game, the Yankee game and then there was another that is lost from my mind right now. However, if Manuel keeps making moves like the Foulke move(or non-move, whichever you prefer) mentioned above, he will get his ass fired out of town...and there will be a mad crowd behind him with pitchforks and fire...and Manuel won't have a clue what to do. I still like the trade, however....Johnson is a backup catcher...he's a good backup catcher, but that's all he is. Valentine has obviously been good and bad during his minor league career...if he was claimed off waivers from Detroit of all places(I didn't even know that)...and then he pitched like he did. The only thing negative about this trade is the fact that we lost Valentine, IMO. We gain a good closer who we will be able to count on for atleast 3 years, and maybe more, and we get two good minor leaguers to go along with him...we give up Foulke, which frees up some salary, Johnson, which really doesn't both me, and Valentine, which bugs the hell out of me. Isn't Valentine injured? And if so, how bad, because if he is hurt badly, then wouldn't that kill the deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 Many suspected he may be injured, but the A's approved the deal so thats up to them. I think this is a deal that helps both teams. I still think its a much riskier deal for the A's, especially if Foulke walks and they don't get draft pick compensation for him(That rule could change by next offseason and most feel it will change by then) Plus, from what I'm hearing were getting one real good prospect, and one decent one, who was a high pick(Thats Cott). I'm not sure who the other one is, but KW is saying he's a stud. No, I don't believe everything he says, but he's making some real big time statements with this prospects saying how great they are, and well, he may say guys he gets are good in trades, he rarely says they are greats, except Jimenez who was a great prospect. I like the move. Im writing a commentary write now that will be on the main page, probably in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 well all i know is valentine was injured enough for them to pull him and sit him for the rest of the fall leagues... and that was after one showing not even a full one at that.... his shoulder and arm is all i know for sure were sore.... i know i also read somewhere that kw was trying to keep it on the quiet....makes me wonder if its shouldergate all over again.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 If you ask me thats the A's responsibility. The Sox were being careful and shut him down as he was getting hammered. It could of simply been his arm was tired(He threw a lot of innings), maybe he complained of mild pain. I know KW would of at least told them that, if it was the case. Other then that its fair game, if he ends up getting hurt afterwards, than it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 kw loved ryan kolhmeier, thomas jacques and onan masaoka too...so im shocked when he said he the two prospects we got are studs..lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 Originally posted by baggio202well i went over to the oakland boards and they love this trade...while all of them said billy koch was a great person , they did say every save with him is an adventure...he did win 11 games last year..alot of those wins came after he blew a save or a tie game and the A's came back to win... looking over the last 2 seasons, and the last 4 (all of koch's career) foulke's numbers beat koch's..especially WHIP..billy's is very high for a closer.. koch had a horrible season in '01...4.80 era and blew 8 saves...yet he was never pulled from his closer role and was able to rebound...kieth foulke after a few bad outings was pulled from his closer role and eventhough he had a 2nd half era last year of 0.74 was never given his closer role back...every closer struggles at some point in his career..they all , except for foulke get a chance to regain their form...if he struggles out the gate next season it could be a disaster for us... but koch could probably blow 50 save opportunities and still get the ball because he is one of KW's boys..so i guess in that respect if billy does struggle he will get a fair shot to right the ship..something foulke never got... this trade..like every other KW makes...will probably come back to haunt us... Ditto Baggio..... ditto. I was right last year when people were trying to convince me that the Ritchie trade was good for the Sox. Let's just say I hope I'm wrong on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 Here's one big thing for everyone to think of. Billy Koch closed in the toughest division in baseball. He went up against other top teams like the Angels and Mariners and even a good offensive, although crappy Ranger team. Foulke, he pitched most of his games against the pathetic teams in the AL Central, most of which aren't known for having a good offense and that really includes the Twins too. Just throwing it out their for ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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