Sox agree to 3yr/$14M Deal w/ Teahen

[Kalapse]

From the Trib.

 

But I don't know how they do the cash allocation over time.

Alright, that's good. It's likely a lump sum paid at the beginning of the 2010 season.

[Thad Bosley]

I like this deal. I think Teahen is good for 20hr and 80rbi, which is worth $5mil/year to me.

 

Why do you think he's good for 20 home runs and 80 RBIs? What has he done to inspire such optimism? He's had three straight seasons of 500+ at-bats, and the most he's been able to muster is 15 home runs and 60 RBIs. He hasn't even driven in 70 runs in a season yet. Maybe playing in the Cell will help improve his numbers a little bit, but that's certainly not a lock.

 

No, I was not happy when we got this guy in the first place, and I'm even less happy now that he's apparently going to be sticking around for the next three years. There is no part of his game that I would classify as "good". He doesn't hit for power. He doesn't have any speed. He doesn't get on base at a particularly good percentage of the time. He's apparently not so slick with the glove, and he strikes out a lot. What is there to like about him? It would be one thing if he were just a kid, only a year or two into his career, in which case you could expect him to steadily improve, but he's not. He's been around for a full five years now. I am not confident that he's all of a sudden going to bring his game up a level or two. Of course I hope I'm wrong, but like I said, I'm not confident about this guy at all. Not one iota.

[Melissa1334]

Why do you think he's good for 20 home runs and 80 RBIs? What has he done to inspire such optimism? He's had three straight seasons of 500+ at-bats, and the most he's been able to muster is 15 home runs and 60 RBIs. He hasn't even driven in 70 runs in a season yet. Maybe playing in the Cell will help improve his numbers a little bit, but that's certainly not a lock.

 

No, I was not happy when we got this guy in the first place, and I'm even less happy now that he's apparently going to be sticking around for the next three years. There is no part of his game that I would classify as "good". He doesn't hit for power. He doesn't have any speed. He doesn't get on base at a particularly good percentage of the time. He's apparently not so slick with the glove, and he strikes out a lot. What is there to like about him? It would be one thing if he were just a kid, only a year or two into his career, in which case you could expect him to steadily improve, but he's not. He's been around for a full five years now. I am not confident that he's all of a sudden going to bring his game up a level or two. Of course I hope I'm wrong, but like I said, I'm not confident about this guy at all. Not one iota.

take a look at mark derosas career..

[Thad Bosley]

take a look at mark derosas career..

 

Their careers are not comparable at all. DeRosa was a utility player for the first few years of his career. It wasn't until he had a chance to play regularly back in '06 that he started to show what he's capable of doing. Teahen has been a regular for four or five years now, and just one look at his stats and all you see is less than average production everywhere you look.

 

I would be ok with having Teahen around in a utility player capacity, given he can at least get by at a lot of different positions. But the thought of watching him get 500+ at bats and turning in the kind of production he has thus far in his career makes me sick - and we have three years of it now coming our way! Oy! I mean, believe me - I hope I'm wrong about this and that he breaks out and is a productive player for us. But he's done nothing to date to even remotely convince me that is going to happen.

[CanOfCorn]

Their careers are not comparable at all. DeRosa was a utility player for the first few years of his career. It wasn't until he had a chance to play regularly back in '06 that he started to show what he's capable of doing. Teahen has been a regular for four or five years now, and just one look at his stats and all you see is less than average production everywhere you look.

 

I would be ok with having Teahen around in a utility player capacity, given he can at least get by at a lot of different positions. But the thought of watching him get 500+ at bats and turning in the kind of production he has thus far in his career makes me sick - and we have three years of it now coming our way! Oy! I mean, believe me - I hope I'm wrong about this and that he breaks out and is a productive player for us. But he's done nothing to date to even remotely convince me that is going to happen.

 

Teahen has basically been utility. Yes, he has played full seasons, but at different positions. It's a slightly below to even market deal for a player with potential who needed a change of scenery.

 

Really folks, we have seen this time and time again from the White Sox, when is it going to sink in that this the organizations's M.O.

[Melissa1334]

Their careers are not comparable at all. DeRosa was a utility player for the first few years of his career. It wasn't until he had a chance to play regularly back in '06 that he started to show what he's capable of doing. Teahen has been a regular for four or five years now, and just one look at his stats and all you see is less than average production everywhere you look.

 

I would be ok with having Teahen around in a utility player capacity, given he can at least get by at a lot of different positions. But the thought of watching him get 500+ at bats and turning in the kind of production he has thus far in his career makes me sick - and we have three years of it now coming our way! Oy! I mean, believe me - I hope I'm wrong about this and that he breaks out and is a productive player for us. But he's done nothing to date to even remotely convince me that is going to happen.

tehean needs to play one position and thats it. ok,if you dont want to compare them,fine. but u think anyone thought he would suddenly become good at 31? tehean has the ability to be better than him

[SoxAce]

Why do you think he's good for 20 home runs and 80 RBIs? What has he done to inspire such optimism? He's had three straight seasons of 500+ at-bats, and the most he's been able to muster is 15 home runs and 60 RBIs. He hasn't even driven in 70 runs in a season yet. Maybe playing in the Cell will help improve his numbers a little bit, but that's certainly not a lock.

 

No, I was not happy when we got this guy in the first place, and I'm even less happy now that he's apparently going to be sticking around for the next three years. There is no part of his game that I would classify as "good". He doesn't hit for power. He doesn't have any speed. He doesn't get on base at a particularly good percentage of the time. He's apparently not so slick with the glove, and he strikes out a lot. What is there to like about him? It would be one thing if he were just a kid, only a year or two into his career, in which case you could expect him to steadily improve, but he's not. He's been around for a full five years now. I am not confident that he's all of a sudden going to bring his game up a level or two. Of course I hope I'm wrong, but like I said, I'm not confident about this guy at all. Not one iota.

 

I agree with the lack of confidence in him, but you got to trust sox scouts/management who have a knack of finding these under the radar type players and them blossoming here. The man is finally gonna play one position for the first time since 2006 (which was his best year though only about 420 PA) and will help any hitter to settle in knowing they only have to worry about playing one position. He is a gap to gap hitter, something the sox (we were last in the league in extra base hits) surely need (which he, Beckham and hopefully Rios will probably be our only charge of that) and you have to think those gap hits will turn into home runs at the cell which is good for his projection not to mention moving from a pitcher's park to a hitter's park. He was also playing for the Royals. Not many players will net 80-100+ RBIs with last place teams. I do want his walk rate to go up. For a moneyball player, that is the one concern I have with him as he was brought up by discipline but you can tell we are actually going for that this offseason. (the rumors about Matsui/Adrian, etc..) He will also give you an average as some fans are average freaks, and the most important thing.. if you look at most of his highlights, you'll notice he always gets his hits from the left side of the field (think spray hitter; by the gaps), which will help eliminate the ol' Greg Walker lift and pull effect.

[Princess Dye]

Seriously?

 

You do realize he would have gotten a virtually identical amount, and possibly more, in arbitration anyways right?

 

All understood, but my problem is being locked in with him the next few years.  I wouldnt have minded going to arb with him this year and then having options open for a big spending spree for hitters next year, with Nix as the replacement for MT.

 

 

Now 2010 is just a little more tight.

 

I'm not saying it's awful, but with Nix you had maybe the potential for a .320 OBP guy with a little power, which is what Teahan has been mostly.  Nix actually was one of our best HR per PA last year.

 

Both Nix and Teahan are looked at as guys who need to get better at 3B.  So if it's kind of a risk defensively anyway, why not tie your boat to the guy making peanuts?  

 

But all that said it's done and I would love to see MT hit that ceiling that he established in his best year. Nix cant do that, I'll grant.

Edited December 8, 2009 by Princess Dye

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Couldn't find a WS Catch-all, but some 1985 style Hawk going on at MLB network. Sox@Yanks. Seaver's 300th.

Edited December 8, 2009 by Swingandalongonetoleft

[Thad Bosley]

Teahen hit all of 12 homers and drove in a paltry 50 runs in 524 at-bats last year. That is below average no matter how you look at it. And for me, I am not going to blame that on the home ballpark, the lack of talent on his team, or the fact that he played multiple positions. I'm going to just flat out say he's just not that good of a ballplayer - and now he's our starting third baseman. He's had more than just a cup of coffee in this league now, so I'm not all that sure that this is one of those diamond-in-the-rough situations. Do I hope I'm wrong and that he does magically become a far more productive player? Of course I do. What else can I do at this point. We're stuck with him. All I'm saying is that if I had to bet, I'd say we'll probably see more of the same Mark Teahen that has been featured thus far to date in his career. That's the part that worries me.

[witesoxfan]

It'd be really interesting to see a study about players who switch positions throughout the year as opposed to them later playing just one position and seeing if it really does make a big difference.

 

My guess would be that there is little difference and that there may be other factors that play into it as well.

[SoxAce]

It'd be really interesting to see a study about players who switch positions throughout the year as opposed to them later playing just one position and seeing if it really does make a big difference.

 

My guess would be that there is little difference and that there may be other factors that play into it as well.

 

I'm sure our good (and I use that term very loosely) friend qwerty can find some sort of study/stats for it.

Edited December 8, 2009 by SoxAce

[qwerty]

All understood, but my problem is being locked in with him the next few years.  I wouldnt have minded going to arb with him this year and then having options open for a big spending spree for hitters next year, with Nix as the replacement for MT.

 

More than 80% of the time teams do not go to arbitration with players, i have the specific number somewhere, but i'm not going to bother looking for it at the moment. The sox have long history of avoiding arbitration at all costs. It wasn't an option. As others have stated he would have gotten right around the same amount he is getting paid next season, though it would have likely been slightly more. Worst case scenario is he puts up roughly his career numbers for us, but then we will not have to give him a pay raise due to that, which he would have gotten. Best case scenario is teahan exceeds expectations this season and next, and we have him for an additional year (what would have been his free agent season) for a bargain.

Teahan can be moved regardless, worse players with bigger contract have. His contract is not gonna hinder the sox from going on a ''big spending spree'' next season, or the season after, etc. The sox made the right move, easily.

 

Not being thrilled with teahan being a starter is another story entirely though.

[Chisoxfn]

KW on Teahen: We believe he's going to produce and produce in a big way.

 

[Quin]

I like the deal, because if he hits like 2006 form, its a good deal. Don't like 3 years though...might have preferred 2.

[qwerty]

It'd be really interesting to see a study about players who switch positions throughout the year as opposed to them later playing just one position and seeing if it really does make a big difference.

 

My guess would be that there is little difference and that there may be other factors that play into it as well.

 

I'll try and get back to you at some point later, have to look through my archives, have some nice studies done on the subject. You are right though, the difference is not that great, though players do hit slightly better when playing one primary position. Nothing earth shattering. The fielding ability increases a good deal in comparison though, which is logical.

 

I'm sure our good (and I use that term very loosely) friend qwerty can find some sort of study/stats for it.

 

Great read from tango here on position switch, from the defensive stand point. When and when not to make the switch. It's currently done wrong way more than it should be. Probably no one will read it, their loss

 

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/...on_adjustments/

[qwerty]

I like the deal, because if he hits like 2006 form, its a good deal. Don't like 3 years though...might have preferred 2.

 

The whole point is to buy out his free agent year on the cheap, if he does indeed hit like his 2006 season, either next year, or the year after, preferably both.

[Kalapse]

The whole point is to buy out his free agent year on the cheap, if he does indeed hit like his 2006 season, either next year, or the year after, preferably both.

And it gives him incentive to take a probable pay-cut in both '10 and '11.

[SoxAce]

Great read from tango here on position switch, from the defensive stand point. When and when not to make the switch. It's currently done wrong way more than it should be. Probably no one will read it, their loss

 

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/...on_adjustments/

 

Very nice. I'll finish reading the rest of it tonight. Thanks A.J.

[qwerty]

Since a promising 2006 season, Mark Teahen’s career has been on a downhill slide. Perhaps this off season will mark a turning point for him professionally. Traded away from Kansas City to the White Sox right after the conclusion of the World Series, Teahen today signed a lucrative three year contract with Chicago.

 

Teahen was entering his fifth year of club control, meaning 2010 and 2011 would have been arbitration years, and 2012 his first year of free agency. Using the standard 40%/60%/80% of free market value for arbitration estimates, the White Sox would be expected to dole out 2.4 years worth of Mark Teahen’s expected value in this contract.

 

The next step then would be to formulate a projection for Mark Teahen. He clearly has the talent to be an above average player, his 2006 and 2007 seasons speak to that. Since then Teahen’s bat has stagnated and his fielding numbers have taken a turn for the worse. Seasons of 0.1 and 0.2 WAR ensued. Teahen’s walk rate fell to its lowest mark of his career in 2009, at least partly as a result of a three-point increase in his swinging percentage. Most projections are going to regress the walks back up slightly, and in turn, an overall average package of hitting stats seems where most projections are clocking in.

 

Projecting defense is a bit tougher, but when you factor in position adjustments, Teahen was average for two years followed by two years of -12 runs, so even giving him some credit for re-adjusting to third base (if that is indeed where he ends up) and some credit for regression yields no better than an overall -5 run or so projection. Add it all up and 1 to 1.5 WAR is where I’d feel comfortable tabbing Teahen. Fair value then for the next three seasons would be about $13 million, a touch under the actual value of this contract (reported for $14.4 million).

 

However, the above paragraph assumes some free market principles not in play here, mainly because of the backwardness of how arbitration salaries are usually awarded. Teahen made $3.575 million last season and players rarely get paycuts going to arbitration so even though fair market for Teahen next year would be about $2.5 million, there is no chance that is what he actually would have made. By dint of how the process works, Teahen was essentially guaranteed about $9 million over the next two years regardless, and that’s if he didn’t bounce back this upcoming season. If the White Sox factored the likely arbitration awards into their cost estimates, then the price they just paid for that 2012 season comes down into a very reasonable range.

 

All in all, this deal makes sense for Teahen, who gets financial security after laying two goose egg seasons. It also makes some sense for the White Sox. Their risk is not really in overpaying, but rather guaranteeing money to a player who they had under control anyways and who they might not want to have around two years from now. The reward is if Teahen returns either his prior hitting or fielding skills, then the White Sox have a cheap asset on their hands.

 

Mark Teahan's curious deal.

[Thad Bosley]

I like the deal, because if he hits like 2006 form, its a good deal. Don't like 3 years though...might have preferred 2.

 

And if he hits like he did in 2005, 2007, 2008, and 2009, which is far more likely, then we are stuck with a below-average third baseman. Ugh.

 

Alright, I've beat this topic like it owed me money. I'll leave it alone for now. I'm going to try and channel the optimism from some of the others here and just hope for the best with this guy. Keeping my fingers crossed!

[BFirebird]

Mark Teahan's curious deal.

Pretty good assessment by Fangraphs. Pretty much echoes a lot of the sentiment shown here that is a good value sign given his arbitration status and what he would have made.

[CanOfCorn]

And if he hits like he did in 2005, 2007, 2008, and 2009, which is far more likely, then we are stuck with a below-average third baseman. Ugh.

 

Alright, I've beat this topic like it owed me money. I'll leave it alone for now. I'm going to try and channel the optimism from some of the others here and just hope for the best with this guy. Keeping my fingers crossed!

 

How do you know that? I would think stabilization and the fact that he isn't playing for a team with no hope to win might rejuvenate him. Or not. We won't know anything until the season plays out.

[Thad Bosley]

How do you know that? I would think stabilization and the fact that he isn't playing for a team with no hope to win might rejuvenate him. Or not. We won't know anything until the season plays out.

 

Well, I cannot see into the future, of course, so I don't know exactly what he's going to do next season. And you are absolutely right - we won't know anything until it's all said and done. However, I think it's perfectly acceptable to suggest his performance next year will more than likely resemble that what it has been in four out of the five years he's been around, including the last three in a row. It would seem this 2006 season from three years ago is the exception rather than the rule. And even if he does return to this over-ballyhooed production of his from the 2006 season, we're still not talking about any great shakes here. Yeah, he hit .290 that year, but he registered fewer than 20 homeruns and 70 RBIs. This is what we're hoping to get out of a corner infielder with no speed and a less-than-glowing reputation with the glove? Oh brother!

[gatnom]

Well, I cannot see into the future, of course, so I don't know exactly what he's going to do next season. And you are absolutely right - we won't know anything until it's all said and done. However, I think it's perfectly acceptable to suggest his performance next year will more than likely resemble that what it has been in four out of the five years he's been around, including the last three in a row. It would seem this 2006 season from three years ago is the exception rather than the rule. And even if he does return to this over-ballyhooed production of his from the 2006 season, we're still not talking about any great shakes here. Yeah, he hit .290 that year, but he registered fewer than 20 homeruns and 70 RBIs. This is what we're hoping to get out of a corner infielder with no speed and a less-than-glowing reputation with the glove? Oh brother!

 

What is up with the obsession with homeruns and RBI's? Especially RBI's... that would probably be the last stat I would look at, if I even looked at it at all, for judging how good of a hitter somebody is. It's such a team dependent stat, and the Kansas City Royals aren't exactly going to put a huge number of men on base for him to drive them in.

 

That being said, I wouldn't expect a whole lot from Teahen this year, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was more 2006 than 2008-9 this season.