White Sox Non-Tender DJ Carrasco

[Kyyle23]

I guess basically what I'm saying is that if they're penciling Hudson into next year's 'pen, whether it be as the long-man or another role, that more than likely we won't be players for a big bat. Of course, anything can happen. Especially when KW is involved. But I think it's a pretty safe assumption that it's going to be VERY difficult to land a big bat AND keep Hudson.

 

Oh I agree that you probably cannot keep Hudson as well as make a significant trade. My thinking is that Hudson assuming DJs role in the pen makes it easier to trade him because he isnt such a vital role player in the pen. We saw DJ when the Sox were sucking bad and he needed to give them a couple innings to save the pen. Anyone can fill that role, you could put Torres in that role and not worry about it.

 

My worry is that you put Hudson in that role and he stagnates in the pen. The kid pitched his ass off at every level last season, how would he adjust from going every 5th day to whenever he is needed to keep the bullpen fresh? If I were KW I would probably want Hudson staying with starting in triple A, both as insurance for Garcia failing as well as showcasing his stuff in case another trade comes up.

[ThunderBolt]

Via Scott Merkin's twitter:

 

Carrasco will pursue a team that gives him an opportunity to become a starting pitcher again, first and foremost.

 

From Carrasco: "You want to be in a place where you are wanted and needed. The White Sox probably still wanted me but didn’t need me."

That's an interesting quote about Carrasco. Not sure why it rubs me slightly the wrong way, but the best of luck to him in the future.

[Melissa1334]

That's an interesting quote about Carrasco. Not sure why it rubs me slightly the wrong way, but the best of luck to him in the future.

yea,but good luck with being a starter lol def. would have to be in the nl. to me,it makes a lot of sense. its like ranger said, were not going to have colon and contreras anymore. thats why he pitched so much. i wouldnt worry about the long man at all with the staff we have. i think hudson is way more than capable of doing the job. we can use that 1-3 mil somewhere else for sure.

[southsider2k5]

Via Scott Merkin's twitter:

 

Carrasco will pursue a team that gives him an opportunity to become a starting pitcher again, first and foremost.

 

From Carrasco: "You want to be in a place where you are wanted and needed. The White Sox probably still wanted me but didn’t need me."

 

If that is the case, good-bye DJ.

[southsider2k5]

I was kind of hoping they could keep him around, too. My guess is with the strength of the rotation, a reliever like him isn't nearly as valuable as he was last year when they had Colon and Contreras at the end of the rotation.

 

Hey Ranger, any thoughts or knowledge of Sergio Santos having a chance at the team next year?

[Melissa1334]

I would have preferred to keep him, but this shows how cash strapped the White Sox are. They added Putz for $3 million, but can't afford Carassco for around 1.5 to 2 million. They still have to find a lea d-off hitter, probably a LF, and possibly a DH still, and that is why I am wondering how they can add a few pieces (even if they don't cost much money) for the offense, and keep the payroll under $100 million. Right now, they are at about $81 or $82 million with I believe 16 players signed. Jenks, Danks and Quentin will probably cost another $13 million for next season, and if you add in 2 or 3 guys like Hudson, Randy Williams and Carlos Torres (guys who make the minimum), we're at 22 players or so at about $95 million with so no upgrades made to the offense (or holes filled). Don't they have to find a way to get better now without increasing the payroll? If so, I would guess we're looking at a trade of some sorts, either to free up money or trade salary for salary.

with that being said, i dont see how they can afford a dh such as matsui, who would be getting 5+ mil. i can see them getting a cheap option as far as the leadoff man goes because theres quite a few guys available. but unless they trade someone ,i dont see how were going to add a dh (matsui)

[SoxAce]

The interesting speculation I read somewhere (I honestly can't remember who) is that this opens the door for Santos, who is out of options.

 

Ya I'm used to that... <_>

 

It was from the Gonzo article I posted bits and blurbs from.

 

And yes, I expected this move. Santos really needs to harness that control in ST. Hopefully Coop can help him with that. I would say Hudson has to be the favorite, unless the sox will carry 11 pitchers, which is what I'm hearing they will probably do. Good to see we will get younger however.

[ThunderBolt]

I've been reading some more of DJ's comments, and you know, i think this is best for both sides. DJ seems like a really, classy guy. He's well aware that his time in Chicago saved his career, and he appreciates that, but he wants to pitch a lot more then we could ever let him. I hope everything works out for him, and i can't wait to see the young arm that gets to take his place in the pen.

Edited December 13, 2009 by Thunderbolt

[Heads22]

He has Nats written all over him. Hell he'd probably be their third best starter right now.

 

I thought exactly the same thing right before I read your post.

[scenario]

Carrasco has made no secret of his desire to be a starter the past couple of years.

 

I can picture that he and his agent figure this may be his last chance... coming off a decent year... to attract an interested team that might give him a shot at starting.

 

And I can picture KW letting him go to pursue it, since we have other reliever options.

 

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes.

 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Good luck DJ. You're right , if all goes well, the Sox have no need for you. Gotta love a guy who makes the most of his talent.

[southsider2k5]

Ya I'm used to that... <_>

 

It was from the Gonzo article I posted bits and blurbs from.

 

And yes, I expected this move. Santos really needs to harness that control in ST. Hopefully Coop can help him with that. I would say Hudson has to be the favorite, unless the sox will carry 11 pitchers, which is what I'm hearing they will probably do. Good to see we will get younger however.

 

In a sense, if Santos makes the team, it would be our Rule V pick.

[WCSox]

It makes sense if Daniel Hudson is the long reliever.

 

I'm not sure that this is a smart long-term move for the Sox. If Hudson is going to be a starter in 2011, he's not going to get enough innings as a long reliever to condition his arm for the rotation.

 

[ozzfest]

im going to really miss DJ

[Milkman delivers]

They sign a guy for 3 million coming off a bad and injured year, and they non-tender one of the few relievers who didn't make me want to vomit.

Awesome.

 

Exactly.

[Kalapse]

Exactly.

I'll gladly take Putz at $3M over Carrasco at ~$1.5M, the potential upside between the 2 isn't even close. Somehow I'm not too broke up about losing the 33 year old coming off a career year as a mop-up man.

[Princess Dye]

I guess they'll figure they can see what they have with Santos as a mop up man. Meanwhile you send Hudson to AAA and have added side benefit of letting his mystique grow as a trade asset. Then you can bring him in as the fulltime mopup man after Santos gets shelled.

 

Which would be one of those times where a GM indirectly manages the team in a sense. I would hope it doesnt backfire and cost us a few early games that would have helped a division battle later.

Edited December 13, 2009 by Princess Dye

[BearSox]

I'll gladly take Putz at $3M over Carrasco at $2M, the potential upside between the 2 isn't even close. Somehow I'm not too broke up about losing the 33 year old coming off a career year as a mop-up man.

 

Im sorry, but you make no sense to me. Sure, potential is one thing, but Putz is far from a sure thing. Hey, I dont mind the Putz signing. Well Ive never been a big fan of Putz, but he can turn out to be a real solid pickup. Putz is a huge injury risk and might wind up pitching a total of 10 innings in 2010, but we'll see what happens.

 

Also, I love how you bring up age. Putz is actually the same age as Carassco. If you really want to nitpick about pointless facts, Putz is actually 2 months older.

 

Personally, I would have brought in Putz and kept Carrasco. But if you want to win ball games, Ill take the 33 year old career year mop up man over the 33 year old huge injury risk. At least with the mop-up man, you have an idea of what your getting.

[WCSox]

I would've liked to see the Sox tender Carrasco, but this is a 32-year-old with a career 104 ERA+ and 1.47 WHIP. I don't see a reason to give a guy like that $2M+ when you have a rock-solid rotation of Peavy, Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, and Garcia, along with Hudson if you need him. The Sox need a shut-down 7th/8th inning reliever a lot more than an over-priced mop-up guy.

 

[Kalapse]

Im sorry, but you make no sense to me. Sure, potential is one thing, but Putz is far from a sure thing. Hey, I dont mind the Putz signing. Well Ive never been a big fan of Putz, but he can turn out to be a real solid pickup. Putz is a huge injury risk and might wind up pitching a total of 10 innings in 2010, but we'll see what happens.

 

Also, I love how you bring up age. Putz is actually the same age as Carassco. If you really want to nitpick about pointless facts, Putz is actually 2 months older.

 

Personally, I would have brought in Putz and kept Carrasco. But if you want to win ball games, Ill take the 33 year old career year mop up man over the 33 year old huge injury risk. At least with the mop-up man, you have an idea of what your getting.

You have no idea what you're getting out of Carrasco in 2010.

 

1.) Carrasco is a near sure thing -- in my mind -- to regress to the mean next season which means mediocre performance from a pitcher who's going to be pitching almost exclusively in incredibly low leverage situations and more often then not in losses hence the 18-31 record in his appearances last season. There's considerable risk on both ends, one could be hurt (though Putz is coming off a "relatively safe" procedure and will be working with one of the best training staffs in professional sports) and one could just be bad because his stuff is mediocre at best and his peripherals are unsustainable. I'll roll the dice with the guy who if everything goes right could end up being my closer rather than the guy who maxes out at exactly what he did last season -- one of the best mop-up men in baseball, a role that isn't exactly highly valued by baseball people.

 

2.) I bring up age because Carrasco just had by far the best year of his career at age 32, he's been a journeyman to this point, it has nothing to do with breaking down due to age, it has everything to do with not counting on a journeyman to have another fluke year in a minimally important bullpen role. Putz on the other hand proved to be a valuable major league ballplayer at age 28 after showing flashes at age 27.

 

Given that the money is similar I'd rather roll the dice with the still relatively young pitcher who just 2 years ago lead all relievers in WHIP as the closer for an 88 win team as opposed to the mop-up man coming off a career year. I don't think that's too hard to figure out.

[The Critic]

Yeah, if his non-tender is based on his desire to start, then he needed to go.

The Sox would have to suffer 2 or 3 injuries to starters for DJ to fill that need.

[Kalapse]

I would've liked to see the Sox tender Carrasco, but this is a 32-year-old with a career 104 ERA+ and 1.47 WHIP. I don't see a reason to give a guy like that $2M+ when you have a rock-solid rotation of Peavy, Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, and Garcia, along with Hudson if you need him. The Sox need a shut-down 7th/8th inning reliever a lot more than an over-priced mop-up guy.

138 relievers threw 50+ innings last season; on average only 4 of them pitched in less pressure filled situations.

[Chicago White Sox]

But if you want to win ball games, Ill take the 33 year old career year mop up man over the 33 year old huge injury risk. At least with the mop-up man, you have an idea of what your getting.

You can't be serious. Why do you think you know what you're going to get out of Carrasco in 2010. You just referred to him as a "career year" mop up man in the sentence before. He's a journeyman long reliever with below average stuff. Considering the general unpredictability of relievers, I think it's fair to assume some regression and possibly a substantial amount.

 

I'll admit Carrasco had a great season last year. If the Sox had more money, I'd reccomend they keep him too. But if it comes down to him or a possible dominant setup man like Putz it's not even a question. We can replace Carrasco with cheaper in-house options. They may not provide the level of production that Carrasco did in 2009, but they could easily outperform him in 2010. I personally think Hudson will do so if he's chosen for that spot. Additionally, we have no one in our system that's ready to provide the possible numbers Putz can assuming all things go well. Yes there is risk there, but I'll take my chances on the guy with dominant stuff who pitches during the critical innings rather than the soft-tossing journeyman who gets most of his action during garbage innings.

[southsider2k5]

I haven't been able to find what DJ wanted, but apparently we offered him $600k

 

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2009/...tz-signing.html

 

Carrasco, who made $440,000 last season, was offered a $160,000 raise. That wasn't what he or his agent had in mind, and the gulf became apparent during a lunch Wednesday at the winter meetings involving Carrasco's agent and a Sox official.

[Chicago White Sox]

I haven't been able to find what DJ wanted, but apparently we offered him $600k

 

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2009/...tz-signing.html

Wow, talk about a low ball offer. Clearly the Sox weren't interested in bringing him back unless the price was close to their other options like Hudson and Torres.