iamshack Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 12:29 PM) Is that rumored or speculation by you? It would make sense...they certainly don't need an OF'er Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalls2598 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) The trade is now official. Here's the full trade details (ESPN) PHILLIES GET … RHP Roy Halladay (from Toronto) *RHP Phillippe Aumont (from Seattle) *OF Tyson Gillies (from Seattle) *RHP Juan Ramirez (from Seattle) $6 million cash (from Toronto) MARINERS GET … LHP Cliff Lee (from Philadelphia) BLUE JAYS GET … *C Travis d'Arnaud (from Philadelphia) *RHP Kyle Drabek (from Philadelphia) *1B/3B Brett Wallace (from Oakland) A'S GET … *OF Michael Taylor (from Philadelphia via Toronto) Edited December 16, 2009 by smalls2598 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (smalls2598 @ Dec 16, 2009 -> 03:51 PM) The trade is now official. Here's the full trade details (ESPN) PHILLIES GET … RHP Roy Halladay (from Toronto) *RHP Phillippe Aumont (from Seattle) *OF Tyson Gillies (from Seattle) *RHP Juan Ramirez (from Seattle) $6 million cash (from Toronto) MARINERS GET … LHP Cliff Lee (from Philadelphia) BLUE JAYS GET … *C Travis d'Arnaud (from Philadelphia) *RHP Kyle Drabek (from Philadelphia) *1B/3B Brett Wallace (from Oakland) A'S GET … *OF Michael Taylor (from Philadelphia via Toronto) I'll be damned.. Phils lose Drebek but gain Aumont. Wow. They did very well. Oakland got involved too?! How bout that. Mariners are very dangerous. Blue Jays did pretty well in the deal for the most part though I thought they would land one more good spect. Edited December 16, 2009 by SoxAce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 09:13 AM) Halladay is more of an injury risk, not a large one but a risk none the less, but he is a horse. How do you figure? Just based strictly on work load? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (SoxAce @ Dec 16, 2009 -> 03:54 PM) I'll be damned.. Phils lose Drebek but gain Aumont. Wow. They did very well. Oakland got involved too?! How bout that. Mariners are very dangerous. Blue Jays did pretty well in the deal for the most part though I thought they would land one more good spect. The Blue Jays did fantastic, actually. Kyle Drabek was supposedly untouchable. That's as good a haul as one could expect for a guy they were guaranteed of losing at the end of the year. The Phillies were the NL favorites with Lee. They're the prohibitive favorites with Halladay. And I think the Mariners are the front-runners in the AL west. And I still think they add a big bat before it's all said and done. It's amazing how quickly Jack Zduriki, or however the hell you spell his last name, has turned that franchise around after the mess Bill Bavasi created. As terrible as the Bedard trade was, I still can't get over Rafael Soriano for Horacio Ramirez. Edited December 16, 2009 by Jordan4life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 How in the hell did Phillies get Halladay and 6 mil, and 3 prospects? That's something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Dec 16, 2009 -> 07:52 PM) How in the hell did Phillies get Halladay and 6 mil, and 3 prospects? That's something. Well, they gave up both Drabek and Turner, the two best prospects in the deal, but pretty incredible that they managed to get cash in the deal. I would say this was a bad deal for Philly, except for the fact that they have been virtually guaranteed to sign Halladay at a below-market price. One of the more interesting deals in recent memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Jesus Christ the Jays got some nice young guys there, definitely did well for Halladay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Halladay Hamels Happ Blanton Aumont Yowza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 16, 2009 -> 05:18 PM) The Blue Jays did fantastic, actually. Except swapping Taylor for Wallace...wtf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (3E8 @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 12:41 AM) Except swapping Taylor for Wallace...wtf? Yeah, lame, but they needed the CI bat much more than another OF... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Man, ESPN hates the Sox. During the coverage they listed the 1-2 Punches in starting rotations for MLB staffs. Mariners: Felix Hernandez, Cliff Lee Red Sox: Josh Beckett, Jon Lester Yankees: CC Sabathia, AJ Burnett Giants: Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain Cardinals: Chris Carpenter, Adam Wainwright Phillies: Roy Halladay, Cole Hamels How is Peavy, Buehrle/Danks/Floyd not on there? It's better than the Yankees (Burnett not bing that great), Phillies (unless Hamels returns to form), the Red Sox (I'd take Peavy over Beckett, and Danks/Floyd at times are just as good as Lester). /southsidebias Also, the Phillies made out like bandits in this trade...just wow. And Wallace on the move again keeps reminding me of how loaded the top of the 2008 draft was: Slayer, Posey, Wallace, Alonso, Smoak... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 01:03 AM) Man, ESPN hates the Sox. During the coverage they listed the 1-2 Punches in starting rotations for MLB staffs. Mariners: Felix Hernandez, Cliff Lee Red Sox: Josh Beckett, Jon Lester Yankees: CC Sabathia, AJ Burnett Giants: Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain Cardinals: Chris Carpenter, Adam Wainwright Phillies: Roy Halladay, Cole Hamels How is Peavy, Buehrle/Danks/Floyd not on there? It's better than the Yankees (Burnett not bing that great), Phillies (unless Hamels returns to form), the Red Sox (I'd take Peavy over Beckett, and Danks/Floyd at times are just as good as Lester). /southsidebias Also, the Phillies made out like bandits in this trade...just wow. And Wallace on the move again keeps reminding me of how loaded the top of the 2008 draft was: Slayer, Posey, Wallace, Alonso, Smoak... I don't think most people know that the White Sox have 4 above average starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 01:03 AM) Man, ESPN hates the Sox. During the coverage they listed the 1-2 Punches in starting rotations for MLB staffs. Mariners: Felix Hernandez, Cliff Lee Red Sox: Josh Beckett, Jon Lester Yankees: CC Sabathia, AJ Burnett Giants: Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain Cardinals: Chris Carpenter, Adam Wainwright Phillies: Roy Halladay, Cole Hamels How is Peavy, Buehrle/Danks/Floyd not on there? It's better than the Yankees (Burnett not bing that great), Phillies (unless Hamels returns to form), the Red Sox (I'd take Peavy over Beckett, and Danks/Floyd at times are just as good as Lester). /southsidebias Also, the Phillies made out like bandits in this trade...just wow. And Wallace on the move again keeps reminding me of how loaded the top of the 2008 draft was: Slayer, Posey, Wallace, Alonso, Smoak... Well if it's 1-2 punches, I could see how the Sox would be left off. Let's face it. As much as we all adore Buehrle, he's not, nor has he ever been, elite. He's just very good. I'd take all those guys listed (aside from probably Hamels/Burnett) over Mark without hesitation. And Danks and Floyd aren't better than Burnett and Hamels, even with Hamels having an off year. Now if ESPN was doing top rotations overall and the White Sox were left off, then you would have a legitimate beef. And yes, the 2008 draft should go down as the best of the decade. And you didn't even mention Tim Beckham, Brian Matusz and, the guy who I believe will be the best player from this draft, Pedro Alvarez. Edited December 17, 2009 by Jordan4life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 05:18 AM) Well if it's 1-2 punches, I could see how the Sox would be left off. Let's face it. As much as we all adore Buehrle, he's not, nor has he ever been, elite. He's just very good. I'd take all those guys listed (aside from probably Hamels/Burnett) over Mark without hesitation. And Danks and Floyd aren't better than Burnett and Hamels, even with Hamels having an off year. Now if ESPN was doing top rotations overall and the White Sox were left off, then you would have a legitimate beef. And yes, the 2008 draft should go down as the best of the decade. And you didn't even mention Tim Beckham, Brian Matusz and, the guy who I believe will be the best player from this draft, Pedro Alvarez. I agree fully. Peavy belongs on that list, but none of Buehrle, Floyd, or Danks is quite in that top aces argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 12:45 AM) Yeah, lame, but they needed the CI bat much more than another OF... That doesn't justify trading a player of higher value for one of lower value. The Jays scouts and GM must see something beyond the stats or feel that Wallace being pushed a little more than Taylor puts them as roughly equals. But right now Taylor has shown more power, better walk rate, lower K rate, isn't as slow as Paul Konerko, and isn't as likely to be relegated to 1B/DH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 08:31 AM) I agree fully. Peavy belongs on that list, but none of Buehrle, Floyd, or Danks is quite in that top aces argument. I will say that I'd rather have one ace (Peavy) and three above average starters (Buehrle, Danks, Floyd) over a dominant 1-2 anytime (unless that 1-2 is something freakish like '01 Johnson/Schilling). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Dec 16, 2009 -> 08:29 PM) Halladay Hamels Happ Blanton Aumont Yowza. I was reading there is a good chance Pedro returns this year, so you could probably swap out Aumont for the time being Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 09:06 AM) I will say that I'd rather have one ace (Peavy) and three above average starters (Buehrle, Danks, Floyd) over a dominant 1-2 anytime (unless that 1-2 is something freakish like '01 Johnson/Schilling). During the regular season probably, but during the playoffs , absolutely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 10:47 AM) During the regular season probably, but during the playoffs , absolutely not. Aside from last year when they had way too many off days between games, having 4 good starters tends to be better in the playoffs than going to a 3 man rotation with 2 aces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 09:06 AM) I will say that I'd rather have one ace (Peavy) and three above average starters (Buehrle, Danks, Floyd) over a dominant 1-2 anytime (unless that 1-2 is something freakish like '01 Johnson/Schilling). You will win a lot more games in the long run that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 09:47 AM) During the regular season probably, but during the playoffs , absolutely not. Well SP depth will be a lot more important come October now that they're going to have less off days during the playoffs. This past postseason was absolutely ridiculous. You're not going to be able to get away with 3-man rotations or being able to have your top pitcher go 3 times in a series if need be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 01:54 PM) Well SP depth will be a lot more important come October now that they're going to have less off days during the playoffs. This past postseason was absolutely ridiculous. You're not going to be able to get away with 3-man rotations or being able to have your top pitcher go 3 times in a series if need be. Depends on the pitcher. Didn't the Marlins wind up doing something similar with Beckett back in 03 before it really spread out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 18, 2009 -> 08:57 AM) Depends on the pitcher. Didn't the Marlins wind up doing something similar with Beckett back in 03 before it really spread out? They brought Beckett outta the 'pen on 2 days rest in game 7 of the NLCS. That was a risky/desperation move that worked out. Not the same as what the Yankees were able to get away with due to excessive off days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 18, 2009 -> 10:25 AM) They brought Beckett outta the 'pen on 2 days rest in game 7 of the NLCS. That was a risky/desperation move that worked out. Not the same as what the Yankees were able to get away with due to excessive off days. True, not the same thing, but Beckett also pitched the clincher in the WS on 3 days rest too IIRC. If I were the Yankees I might have done Captain Cheeseburger on 3 days rest for the whole postseason even if every series went the max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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