White Sox acquire Juan Pierre

[SoxAce]

Why? Aside from his bizarre '09 season he hasn't done anything like that since '04 and now he's moving to a small AL ballpark where it'll be harder for any of his soft bloopers to fall and more difficult to find gaps if anything he could struggle even more than he has in recent years.

 

Well he was never a gap hitter anyways Kal. He is the classic singles guy.. then steals second to get on.

[monomach]

A career year?? Look at his stats. CQ has only played two MLB full seasons, and he was injured last year for the most part. 2008 was on par with his healthy minor league seasons.

I've seen his s***ty stats. I'm one of few who have broken them down here rather than regurgitate the Kenny Williams kool-aid all over myself like you have.

 

...and Jones' 560 home run season was more or less on par with his other seasons, too.

[iamshack]

He's difficult in the clubhouse and is quite overpaid.

I heard the same as Ace....I thought he handled his predicament in LA very professionally...did you hear differently?

 

As for the point Melissa is making, all it matters is if the guy gets on base. Whether it's because he walks, or hits, or gets drilled, or gets on base because of an error, it doesn't matter. Pierre doesn't walk much, but he's a lifetime .300 hitter. So we can disparage his walk rate as much as we want, but it doesn't quite paint the entire picture.

[Chisoxfn]

I heard the same as Ace....I thought he handled his predicament in LA very professionally...did you hear differently?

 

As for the point Melissa is making, all it matters is if the guy gets on base. Whether it's because he walks, or hits, or gets drilled, or gets on base because of an error, it doesn't matter. Pierre doesn't walk much, but he's a lifetime .300 hitter. So we can disparage his walk rate as much as we want, but it doesn't quite paint the entire picture.

I'm confused, weren't they talking about Luis Castillo. I've never heard a bad thing about Pierre. He's known as a good clubhouse guy and a consumate pro.

[SoxAce]

Like I keep reiterating... Give me a .350 OBP and I will not complain about Juan Pierre at all. The rest (avg., SB, hits, etc..) is more or less extra on what he brings.

 

I'm confused, weren't they talking about Luis Castillo. I've never heard a bad thing about Pierre. He's known as a good clubhouse guy and a consumate pro.

 

I know when he was younger, he got into it with Leyland cause he wanted to play every game (gotta admire his dedication) but like you and shack said.. I always heard he was just a true professional (especially with his situation in LA) and a constant hard worker.

Edited December 16, 2009 by SoxAce

[Kalapse]

I heard the same as Ace....I thought he handled his predicament in LA very professionally...did you hear differently?

 

As for the point Melissa is making, all it matters is if the guy gets on base. Whether it's because he walks, or hits, or gets drilled, or gets on base because of an error, it doesn't matter. Pierre doesn't walk much, but he's a lifetime .300 hitter. So we can disparage his walk rate as much as we want, but it doesn't quite paint the entire picture.

I've heard a few times that he's a cantankerous dude which rubs management especially the wrong way. We're talking about Castillo here, not Pierre. Pierre's a consummate professional.

 

Yeah I get that there are a few ways to get on base and you don't have to look at his walk rate, just look at his recent on base percentages; right around .330 because he hits at a consistent average and walks at a consistent rate.

 

When I say you look for walks first and foremost in a leadoff hitter I mean this because it's the easiest way to raise your on base percentage. There aren't a lot of speedy .310+ hitters out there that can have a high OBP without a good walk rate.

[Kalapse]

I'm confused, weren't they talking about Luis Castillo. I've never heard a bad thing about Pierre. He's known as a good clubhouse guy and a consumate pro.

There's a little miscommunication here. Pierre is, by all accounts, a great guy. I was talking about Castillo.

[SoxAce]

There's a little miscommunication here. Pierre is, by all accounts, a great guy. I was talking about Castillo.

 

Ah okay, thanks for clearing that up.

[Ranger]

That could be hard as I could see either one being injured/benched for extended periods of time.

 

Pierre never gets hurt...what makes you think he will suddenly start?

 

But he's not a good leadoff man. Neither was 05 Pods. We didn't win in 05 because of Pods. We won because we pitched well and hit a lot of home runs.

 

 

So, then you'll concede the leadoff position won't make or break them anyway, so it's useless getting worked up about it one way or the other? Podsednik had a really nice year last year...the Sox had less than 80 wins. Pierre's been on winning teams, the Sox can win with him, too. They won't win, or lose, because of him. It helps to have a good one, but it isn't totally essential.

[Kalapse]

Pierre never gets hurt...what makes you think he will suddenly start?

 

 

 

 

So, then you'll concede the leadoff position won't make or break them anyway, so it's useless getting worked up about it one way or the other? Podsednik had a really nice year last year...the Sox had less than 80 wins. Pierre's been on winning teams, the Sox can win with him, too. They won't win, or lose, because of him. It helps to have a good one, but it isn't totally essential.

If the leadoff position isn't important then why not just put Alejandro De Aza out there for the minimum? They could very well win or lose because of Pierre, the number of times your guys get on at the top is directly proportionate to the number of runs a lineup produces. If all else is equal you will score more runs with a high OBP hitter at the top than you will with a low OBP hitter, more runs means more wins if the pitching and defense are equal and since the only variable in this scenario is your leadoff man all else is in fact equal.

 

Just because a team at a time won a world series without a great leadoff man (and Podsednik wasn't great but he was definitely good in '05) doesn't mean that spot in the order won't matter for this team.

[iamshack]

I've heard a few times that he's a cantankerous dude which rubs management especially the wrong way. We're talking about Castillo here, not Pierre. Pierre's a consummate professional.

 

Yeah I get that there are a few ways to get on base and you don't have to look at his walk rate, just look at his recent on base percentages; right around .330 because he hits at a consistent average and walks at a consistent rate.

 

When I say you look for walks first and foremost in a leadoff hitter I mean this because it's the easiest way to raise your on base percentage. There aren't a lot of speedy .310+ hitters out there that can have a high OBP without a good walk rate.

Oh sorry....I was sort of zipping through during commercials on my tivo (yeah, I know I can fast-forward through them). Perhaps I shouldn't be a dolt and comment in the thread before I understand what I am commenting on.

 

As for the walk rate, I know you know that. But unfortunately when you throw some of these numbers and metrics around, people not as educated or knowledgeable as yourself misunderstand.

 

Just making a distinction to keep things clear.

[Kalapse]

Oh sorry....I was sort of zipping through during commercials on my tivo (yeah, I know I can fast-forward through them). Perhaps I shouldn't be a dolt and comment in the thread before I understand what I am commenting on.

 

As for the walk rate, I know you know that. But unfortunately when you throw some of these numbers and metrics around, people not as educated or knowledgeable as yourself misunderstand.

 

Just making a distinction to keep things clear.

That's fine on both counts. I'm not even sure the original poster was talking about Castillo, I assumed they were and commented on it but both LA and NY were/are desperate to move Pierre and Castillo for different reasons (with money being a common link of course.)

[qwerty]

For one thing, the Mets are trying to further change the clubhouse culture. This is not to say that Castillo was aloof or divisive, or that he was a bad influence. He played hard and got along well with teammates, who respected his determination and commitment to bouncing back from a terrible 2008. In fact, players were particularly impressed with his professionalism after he muffed that ninth-inning pop-up at Yankee Stadium …

 

But the Mets recognize a need for an energy boost, both on the field and in the clubhouse. That is why someone like Orlando Hudson is so appealing to them. In trying to find the right mix of players, the Mets are not going to deal David Wright or Jose Reyes or Carlos Beltran. Perhaps they could improve in right field, but the Mets so value Jeff Francoeur’s personality and “great burst of energy” – to steal a quote from Wright – that they are happy to bring him back. Castillo is not the only major leaguer the Mets could move, but he is the one who may make the most sense.

 

http://www.metstoday.com/4139/mets-buzz/wh...-luis-castillo/

 

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NEW YORK -- Luis Castillo was walking through the Mets clubhouse Saturday when Ryan Church stopped him for a moment. From his seat on a couch in the middle of the room, Church reached out to give Castillo a fist bump, then asked, "How you doing?"

 

In a hushed tone, Castillo said, "Okay," then kept on walking. But it was obvious that he was not.

 

The second baseman was still shaken by his epic blunder in Friday's loss to the Yankees, which threatens to shatter the confidence he had regained and the good will with Mets fans he had rebuilt after last season.

 

He said he didn't watch any replays on television, but he didn't need to. Castillo laid awake in the middle of the night, replaying the moment in his mind -- the ball popping out of his glove, him falling to the ground, the Yankees rushing the field to celebrate at home plate, all in a matter of seconds.

 

"I think so much about what happened," Castillo said. Friday "night was a tough night for me. I couldn't sleep ... so I couldn't wait to come to the ballpark, be in the lineup and get ready for the game. I want to put everything in the past."

 

That was not easy Saturday. When he arrived at Yankee Stadium, there were tabloids scattered across a table in the visiting clubhouse, all with his face on the cover. "Amazin Disgrace," one headline read.

 

Manager Jerry Manuel put Castillo in the leadoff spot against the Yankees' Andy Pettitte, as he has done regularly against left-handed pitchers. That allowed Castillo to take his ribbing from fans and get back on the field as quickly as possible, but he still had to endure some ribbing.

 

When he walked up to the plate at the start of the game, Yankees fans stood and gave Castillo a loud, sarcastic ovation.

 

Castillo finished 2-for-5 and made no defensive blunders, even snaring a line drive off the bat of Hideki Matsui to end the second inning. But when Derek Jeter beat his throw to first to drive in a run in the seventh, Castillo stood in shallow right field -- not far from the spot of his error -- with his head down for several seconds.

 

Still, Manuel said: "I don't think his issue now is an issue of confidence. I think he's played well. He's been in a lot of our rallies. He's started a lot of our rallies, been in the middle of rallies, won a game for us. So I don't think that's the issue for him right now. What he has to do is continue to get back to playing well."

 

Coming into this year, Castillo was determined to avoid a repeat of last season, during which he hit just .245 and was booed regularly at Shea Stadium. He spent the winter working out in the Dominican Republic and reported to spring training 17 pounds lighter than he did the previous year.

 

After a convincing start to the season -- he hit .370 in April -- Castillo appeared to win back the fan base. But his production has slowed steadily since then. He hit .244 in May, and is just 10-for-42 (.238) in June. And after Friday, whatever gains he made with Mets fans may well have been erased.

 

"When do we go back to Citi Field?" Manuel asked reporters.

 

Fortunately for Castillo, not until Friday, when the Mets open a 10-game home stand.

 

"By that time, he'll be about 10-for-15, five stolen bases, two or three game-winning hits and, 'Hey, we love him,'" Manuel said. "I'm not worried about that."

 

Still, the Mets appeared concerned about Castillo's psyche. After Castillo agreed to talk about his error again before Saturday's game, Mets public relations chief Jay Horwitz interjected and tried to stop reporters from talking with him.

 

But Castillo, despite looking miserable, did not take the opportunity to hide. He spoke anyway and expressed remorse. The only thing he could do, he said, was try to forget about the play.

 

"I want to play like I've been playing for a long time," Castillo. "I don't want to be thinking about it. I want to play and play hard. That's what I can do."

http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2009/06/n..._baseman_l.html

 

He handled his bone headed play against the yankees better than expected.

 

I have yet to find anything concrete about castillo for the bad. He seems to have been pretty well liked (by the players) at every stop he has been at. Though on the other hand i have seen it hinted that management (mets) does not agree with their assessment (the players).

Edited December 16, 2009 by qwerty

[greg775]

Two comments:

1.) I hope Danks has a great spring and makes it impossible for the Sox to keep him in the minors. We really don't need this Pierre fella starting.

2.) It's obvious Oz is going to have a lot of fun this year playing everybody. Even more than usual I look for different lineups almost everyday.

If we don't hit/score runs/win, we're gonna have a lot to b**** about regarding Oz.

Though I tend to not criticize Oz. I prefer to criticize the guy who provides Oz the players.

I'm not at all crazy about the light hitting Pierre.

It makes me feel better about seeing Teahen out there compared to Pierre.

[SoxAce]

http://www.metstoday.com/4139/mets-buzz/wh...-luis-castillo/

 

I want to ask you A.J. since your a very smart poster (heard from some of my personal favorite posters already on this).. what do you think of the Pierre deal and as a player?

[Ranger]

If the leadoff position isn't important then why not just put Alejandro De Aza out there for the minimum? They could very well win or lose because of Pierre, the number of times your guys get on at the top is directly proportionate to the number of runs a lineup produces. If all else is equal you will score more runs with a high OBP hitter at the top than you will with a low OBP hitter, more runs means more wins if the pitching and defense are equal and since the only variable in this scenario is your leadoff man all else is in fact equal.

 

Just because a team at a time won a world series without a great leadoff man (and Podsednik wasn't great but he was definitely good in '05) doesn't mean that spot in the order won't matter for this team.

 

 

Did I say it wasn't important? Maybe you should re-read and re-process what I've written. I said it isn't as important as some people seem to think it is. It's a fact that a leadoff hitter is not going to necessarily win or lose a season for you. That's what I said. It's important, as is any spot in the lineup. Having a good leadoff hitter doesn't guarantee a championship (Seattle may have the best one in the game, as he's certainly one of the best overall players in the game) just as having a below-average one doesn't guarantee a poor season.

 

Of course, if you put a guy at the top that hits .200 and has an OBP of .300, that will hurt the offense. But if he's around .300/.340, he'll be just fine. OBP is one of the 2 most important things for someone in his position (if not the single most important), and if he performs at a league-average level in that category (.340 is league average), he'll be good enough.

 

It's important, but it's hardly everything.

 

[chunk23]

If the leadoff position isn't important then why not just put Alejandro De Aza out there for the minimum? They could very well win or lose because of Pierre, the number of times your guys get on at the top is directly proportionate to the number of runs a lineup produces. If all else is equal you will score more runs with a high OBP hitter at the top than you will with a low OBP hitter, more runs means more wins if the pitching and defense are equal and since the only variable in this scenario is your leadoff man all else is in fact equal.

 

Just because a team at a time won a world series without a great leadoff man (and Podsednik wasn't great but he was definitely good in '05) doesn't mean that spot in the order won't matter for this team.

 

Because, like the many players some pine for in the leadoff spot, De Aza is not good. You can't just look at how they hit as a "leadoff hitter". Are they league average for the position they play? Pierre is well below average at LF and CF.

[knightni]

I'm guessing that one of Nix, Lillibridge, or De Aza doesn't make it to the new year on the 40 man.

[SouthsideDon48]

I'm not at all crazy about the light hitting Pierre.

It makes me feel better about seeing Teahen out there compared to Pierre.

I actually feel the complete opposite. I feel excited to have Pierre, but I'm feeling disappointed in having Teahen.

 

I just can't help but think Pierre will have a lot of spark-plug moments at the top of the line-up, and wreaking havoc on the bases like he did for the Marlins in 2003, but I also can't help but think Teahen is going to be nothing more than another #9 hitter who hits worse than Uribe.

 

I'd actually rather have Uribe than Teahen...

[Ranger]

Because, like the many players some pine for in the leadoff spot, De Aza is not good. You can't just look at how they hit as a "leadoff hitter". Are they league average for the position they play? Pierre is well below average at LF and CF.

 

 

That doesn't necessarily dramatically affect the outcome of the season as just about every single team that's ever won the World Series has had a couple of players below league-average for their positions. The question is: does that player contribute in some way and are there other areas of the team strong enough to pick up whatever slack is left? I mean, you don't put a real team together like you'd assemble a fantasy team.

 

There is a philosophy that fans (and sometimes organizations) make too much of the leadoff hitter. And that people who use the "he gets the most ABs on the team" argument are overstating the importance of that position. Statistically speaking, some numbers suggest that the extra plate appearances by the leadoff hitter are worth very little over the course of the season.

 

It just doesn't make much sense to put too much stock in one spot in the lineup like some people seem to be doing when they discuss Pierre. Look, he's far from the ideal and he doesn't excite me, but I think he can contribute enough to help the lineup overall.

[SouthsideDon48]

I'm guessing that one of Nix, Lillibridge, or De Aza doesn't make it to the new year on the 40 man.

I honestly hope we get rid of Lillibridge somehow. Honestly, the guy instills no confidence in me. I actually felt more confident in having Wise in the lineup than Lillibridge. :-/

 

Hopefully we can trade him to another team looking for a late-inning defensive replacement/pinch runner/bat boy.

[knightni]

I honestly hope we get rid of Lillibridge somehow. Honestly, the guy instills no confidence in me. I actually felt more confident in having Wise in the lineup than Lillibridge. :-/

 

Hopefully we can trade him to another team looking for a late-inning defensive replacement/pinch runner/bat boy.

Well, they have a few too many average or below average infielders on the 40 man right now. Plus, there are a few solid infielders in AA and AAA that are working their way up in to the majors within next few years.

 

 

 

[greg775]

I still don't understand why we just don't play Danks.

Some thought we were rushing Beckham and he did great. Baseball should start to be like other sports and not be afraid to play some of these guys right away.

I'd rather rush Danks than play Pierre a lot wouldn't you all?

[daggins]

I still don't understand why we just don't play Danks.

Some thought we were rushing Beckham and he did great. Baseball should start to be like other sports and not be afraid to play some of these guys right away.

I'd rather rush Danks than play Pierre a lot wouldn't you all?

 

No.

 

If you like Danks as a prospect you should be pushing for him to get another year of seasoning in the minors. He would be horrendous, sub-replacement material if he started in 2010.

 

Pierre is what he is, likely to be a steady producer. Not particularly good, but I can say with 95%+ certainty he would outhit Danks.

 

Lets hope KW has figured out finally how to handle prospects as something beyond trade bait.

[witesoxfan]

Thank God for Atmosphere; I would have jumped off of a cliff by now.

 

The Sox are getting semi-fair value for a player who should be a #9 hitter. It's just too f***ing bad that Pierre is not that good. I'll hope and pray for the best player available, with one player in mind, but s***. Pierre f***ing blows.

 

Atleast we still have Hudson.