Chisoxfn Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 09:40 AM) .329 and a .688 OPS in the 4 seasons leading up to his 2 good months last year. There's really no reason for me to believe we'll get anything better than a .325-.330 OBP out of him which is especially dreadful since his ISO will be well under .100. It's a stupid f***ing trade and a tremendous waste of money. Plenty of teams have won with Juan Pierre at the top? Really? He's been on one team that made the playoffs with him as their leadoff hitter for a full season and that was '03 when he was 25. He has a grand total of 7 playoff PA since 2003. I don't really care what his ISO will be at the top of the order. I care about the things he can do. Is he perfect, absolutely not. Ideal, no, but for the amount the Sox are paying him this is a solid move. Last season he was much much better than he had been the last couple of years and he did make some minor changes to his swing mechanics and approach and they apparently paid off big. The stat outlook on these type of guys are always much much more negative than the reality. He isn't an all star, nor is he one of the 10 or 15 best leadoff hitters, but he's adequate, and will be one of the few guys on the squad capable of hitting for a high average, which is a nice change. There are a lot of things Juan can do that won't show up on the stat sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 11:46 AM) Buehrle disappeared after the perfect game. Just sayin'. He had a bad month of August and bounced right back in September. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 12:45 PM) this could be the end of the offseason for kw and if it is id like to see 1. Pierre LF 2. Becks 2b 25HR 3. Rios CF 25HR 4. CQ RF/DH 30HR 5. Kong 1B 30HR 6. AJP C 10HR 7. Jones RF/DH 25HR 8. Teahan 3B 20HR 9. Ramirez SS 20HR get 15 homers from the bench and you got your 200 homers to go along with a pretty good staff LOL. Alex Rios sure as hell ain't hittin 25 HR. Most of those are huge reaches. Our pitching staff better be 2005 stellar cause our offense is gonna suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 QUOTE (hogan873 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 11:45 AM) So, I just looked up Pierre's career stats. After looking at them and pondering, scratching my head, and drinking some root beer, I can't really see why we would want Pods over him...especially for the money. A career .301 hitter (yeah, yeah, I know NL vs. AL), 450+ stolen bases, and decent fielding stats. I'll take him over Pods for sure. Prior to last season it had been 5 years since he had last come within 15 points of his career OBP, his career numbers are moot at this point. He's not even close to the same hitter he was in the middle part of the decade when he was putting up OBPs north of .360, making up for the terrible OBP and slugging numbers he's been putting up in the 2nd half of the decade. There are plent of early to mid 30 year old hitters with good to terrific career numbers that you would want no where near your team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I would guess we're right at the payroll limit set by JR or over it by now...meaning the only question of the offseason remaining is whether losing Bobby Jenks is worth gaining Vladimir Guerrero as our DH. Interesting question...we have our most solid bench since 2006 by far, assuming Andruw Jones isn't a starter. Although right now, Pierre, Kotsay and Andruw Jones would be getting quite a few AB's if Quentin is really going to be the full-time DH. The main questions left are quality RH relievers, Williams (I'm assuming KW will pick up a Ray King or Arthur Rhodes type to compete in ST, just throwing out some random names for LH relievers) and the on-going DH issue. I haven't been paying so much attention this offseason, but a lot of the contracts are more back-loaded, so there's not QUITE as much pressure on the payroll in 2010 as there might have been had Hahn and Company not been so prescient in setting things up well to best compete the next couple of years with that rotation in place. Finally, Vin Scully's a baseball announcer I admire about as much as any in the game, and he said when Pierre made a "mental" error one time last season that it was the first time it had happened in a Dodger uniform. In other words, he's a solid baseball player who doesn't make mistakes, the anti-Pods. Sure, we know he doesn't hit for power, he's got a horrible noodle arm and he's got a pretty low OBP, but look at what we started 2009 with on our roster. But he can definitely lay down a bunt, haha. Ozzie likes veterans more in general, and he's been close to Pierre since his Marlins days. If nothing else, we're accumulating former Dodgers' outfielders, unfortunately not Kemp, Ethier or Ramirez (well, that would never happen under KW and JR!) Pods, in the end, was just too much of an injury risk to sign for two seasons for about the same amount of money, and Pierre's a better overall defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 09:45 AM) I can't believe people still want to see Thome back on the Sox. Yeah, his .847 OPS last year really sucked. I have no problem bringing him back for $5M or so next year. QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 09:45 AM) this could be the end of the offseason for kw and if it is id like to see 1. Pierre LF 2. Becks 2b 25HR 3. Rios CF 25HR 4. CQ RF/DH 30HR 5. Kong 1B 30HR 6. AJP C 10HR 7. Jones RF/DH 25HR 8. Teahan 3B 20HR 9. Ramirez SS 20HR get 15 homers from the bench and you got your 200 homers to go along with a pretty good staff You have some very overly-optimistic projections there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Link and Ely? Sold. Fine by me. If we can get a left power bat of some degree for DH, I'll call this a pretty successful offseason. The team has improved significantly, while most of the division is treading water or worse. Pitching looks stellar. And we did that while still keeping the handful of best prospects we have - Hudson, Flowers, Danks, et al. Impressive. If KW manages to pull off a miracle for Adrian Gonzalez (which is a long shot), then it would be nothing short of masterful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattchoo Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 11:46 AM) KW isnt done yet BTW. I just hope this was the marginal bat I heard about. What does your post mean? Was KW plan to get a marginal bat and a SUPERIOR BAT such as AGonzo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I'm told the Sox are working hard on adding another bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 11:50 AM) Yeah, his .847 OPS last year really sucked. I have no problem bringing him back for $5M or so next year. You have some very overly-optimistic projections there. Bacon for 25 is way too many. Also assumes TCQ actually, you know, stays healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 05:51 PM) I'm told the Sox are working hard on adding another bat. Expecting us to hear something soon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 QUOTE (Mattchoo @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 11:50 AM) What does your post mean? Was KW plan to get a marginal bat and a SUPERIOR BAT such as AGonzo? I only post what I hear from a probably 3rd hand source of info. Dont know about superior, but I think we'll see another trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 11:52 AM) Bacon for 25 is way too many. Also assumes TCQ actually, you know, stays healthy. Those projections are indeed very optimistic, but I actually could see Beckham hitting 25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 11:51 AM) I'm told the Sox are working hard on adding another bat. That doesn't surprise me at all with the number of big names the Sox have been connected to already this off-season. I do still expect us to wait out the waves of signings and pick a pitcher or two off of the scrap heap in the bargain bin at the end of the off season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 11:50 AM) Yeah, his .847 OPS last year really sucked. I have no problem bringing him back for $5M or so next year. I think he'd come back for $2 million, honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 11:54 AM) I think he'd come back for $2 million, honestly. And I'd jump at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 11:54 AM) And I'd jump at that. Less money for Thome than Pierre or Teahan? Where do I sign? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 11:48 AM) I don't really care what his ISO will be at the top of the order. I care about the things he can do. Is he perfect, absolutely not. Ideal, no, but for the amount the Sox are paying him this is a solid move. Last season he was much much better than he had been the last couple of years and he did make some minor changes to his swing mechanics and approach and they apparently paid off big. The stat outlook on these type of guys are always much much more negative than the reality. He isn't an all star, nor is he one of the 10 or 15 best leadoff hitters, but he's adequate, and will be one of the few guys on the squad capable of hitting for a high average, which is a nice change. There are a lot of things Juan can do that won't show up on the stat sheet. You should care about his ISO, just completely writing off extra base hits from the top is just ridiculous. A double from your leadoff man can go a long way. What happened in June? He put up a 1.000+ OPS in the first two months then fell off greatly in June, lost his starting job when Manny came back and put up his usual bad numbers as a part time player the rest of the way. I'm sure he will put up a decent average and because of that and his "intangibles" (like his league worst arm) he'll garner quite a bit of love from the fan base, driving me insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxpride77 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Really like this trade. Fills the need for a leadoff hitter. Didn't have to give up too much, especially since the Dodgers are picking up half the tab. Pierre is on of the premier bunters in baseball too, which is something the Sox have been lacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 11:55 AM) Less money for Thome than Pierre or Teahan? Where do I sign? b-b-b-but Thome is one-dimensional! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 09:52 AM) Expecting us to hear something soon? I just heard Kenny has a guy in mind and he's in discussion to get him. I don't have anything more than that and anything else I add would be pure speculation. I think he'll make one more hard push at Adrian Gonzalez, but I don't think San Diego is ready to let him go. I honestly don't know who it will be, but I got a sneaking suspicion it won't be anyone we have speculated too heavily about. There just aren't a lot of FA options out there, so you'd have to think the club is looking to go the way of a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 11:55 AM) Less money for Thome than Pierre or Teahan? Where do I sign? He has nowhere to play. He isn't going to play in the NL, and there are about 3 teams that may be interested in the AL? He lives here, he loves it here, the fans like him, etc.,. Give him a chance to get 400 PA's and I think he'll take a few million bucks. It's not about money at this point, so just don't insult him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 12:50 PM) Yeah, his .847 OPS last year really sucked. I have no problem bringing him back for $5M or so next year. You have some very overly-optimistic projections there. Teahen has hit 18 before, and Rios has hit 24. I wouldn't put money on them hitting 20 and 25, but in our ballpark I wouldn't rule it out either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Let's not forget that some other move the Sox may make, isn't necessarily for a DH. They could still upgrade at an already-filled position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 11:45 AM) this could be the end of the offseason for kw and if it is id like to see 1. Pierre LF 2. Becks 2b 25HR 3. Rios CF 25HR 4. CQ RF/DH 30HR 5. Kong 1B 30HR 6. AJP C 10HR 7. Jones RF/DH 25HR 8. Teahan 3B 20HR 9. Ramirez SS 20HR get 15 homers from the bench and you got your 200 homers to go along with a pretty good staff If Beckham hits 25 homers next year he is either juicing or hitting .250. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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