White Sox acquire Juan Pierre

[Balta1701]

I wonder if Kenny's talk might not indicate that he wants flowers to see some time at DH.

 

Anyway...sign a DH and this offseason's a wrap to me.

[Kalapse]

I was just pointing out that your attempt to make the poster look stupid by using total outs was fairly irrelevant as well.

 

What I was getting at, is that it does absolutely NOTHING to compare players we got for very little to players that are perennial all-stars.

I wasn't comparing anyone, I was just naming the players that finished ahead of him in PA since you assumed Pierre was #1.

 

And I wasn't trying to make anyone look stupid. I resent that accusation.

[iamshack]

I wasn't comparing anyone, I was just naming the players that finished ahead of him in PA since you assumed Pierre was #1.

 

And I wasn't trying to make anyone look stupid. I resent that accusation.

I suppose I was just going on effect then.

[GREEDY]

Brace yourself, there will be all kinds of old white men yelling at the TV this season:

 

"Turn that damn hat straight".

[fathom]

Brace yourself, there will be all kinds of old white men yelling at the TV this season:

 

"Turn that damn hat straight".

 

And we have the best post of this thread!!

[thedoctor]

Brace yourself, there will be all kinds of old white men yelling at the TV this season:

 

"Turn that damn hat straight".

 

"back in my day we kept our hats straight and clean. we didn't let our skin get that color, either."

[Sox72]

"back in my day we kept our hats straight and clean. we didn't let our skin get that color, either."

 

That's racist. I'm blocking you.

[caulfield12]

Well, the White Sox clearly have a huge and clear advantage over the Twins in the pitching department for the first time since 2005.

 

I do worry about giving Tyler Flowers a lot of AB's at DH, because the reason the White Sox have had so much trouble breaking in young players (until Beckham performed) is that you can't play rookies like Borchard/Anderson/Fields, etc., when they're not producing. They rode it out with Anderson in 2006 for half the season, but it became a focus point of the media eventually, despite how well the team was playing overall.

 

It's kind of a double-edged sword. The White Sox are usually in the thick of the division race and can't afford to have many throw-away years like 2007 (look how well Owens/Fields/Wasserman produced, and what they've done since, or dare I mention Andy Gonzalez?)...so KW and Ozzie are more likely to trust veteran players than rookies. Look what happened with the likes of Erstad and Mackowiak playing over Anderson. Now, I think we can finally put to bed the Brian Anderson Conspiracy Theory at least 75%.

 

As for Flowers, he seems to be the type of player who would need to get regular and consistent at-bats, same with someone like Jordan Danks (just throwing out his name, because of his swing mechanics). I just don't see Flowers making the team as the back-up catcher and part-time DH. I think the only way KW will use him is either as a full-time starter at catcher after AJ leaves or as part of a trade, keeping his value as high as possible in AAA before the bloom comes off the rose, as it usually does with Sox prospects.

 

For another example, look how long it took for Rowand and Crede to win starting roles in Chicago...and KW kept trying to replace Rowand seemingly every season (especially after the motorbike accident) because he didn't fully trust him as a starter AND wanted to go cheap with Reed/A. Webster/Young/Anderson all in the pipeline behind Rowand.

Edited December 16, 2009 by caulfield12

[qwerty]

And a backup C, though I think we have options in house for that which I'd be fine with.

 

Let me guess... donny lucy? Lolz ∞.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

This will solve all problems. Quentin, Jenks, Linebrink, Konerko,Hudson and Clevelan Santeliz to the Rockies for Brad Hawpe, Todd Helton, Huston Street and Taylor Bucholz. Depending on what Q and Jenks get in arbitration its pretty close salary-wise and we get more left handed with Hawpe and Helton and get 2 decent bullpen arms I love blockbusters.

[DBAHO]

Well we finally have our leadoff hitter, albeit it is a player in Pierre who does have a lot of downside to his game and that noodle arm of his in CF.

 

To my annoyance, we're now paying Rios $12M a season to play in a corner OF spot when he'll probably put up a .750 OPS. Sure he'll give you great defense there, but that's vastly overpaying, and we're stuck with him for a few seasons at least.

 

If the Sox target a DH, maybe they'll go after someone who mashes lefties, and have Flowers take the vast majority of PA's against RHP's as the DH.

[Kalapse]

Well we finally have our leadoff hitter, albeit it is a player in Pierre who does have a lot of downside to his game and that noodle arm of his in CF.

 

To my annoyance, we're now paying Rios $12M a season to play in a corner OF spot when he'll probably put up a .750 OPS. Sure he'll give you great defense there, but that's vastly overpaying, and we're stuck with him for a few seasons at least.

 

If the Sox target a DH, maybe they'll go after someone who mashes lefties, and have Flowers take the vast majority of PA's against RHP's as the DH.

Pierre is going to play left, Rios will remain in center.

[Quin]

I'm late to thread, so I'm just gonna say I like the move, since we're getting a Pods at almost half the cost, younger, less injury prone, slightly better D, better on base paths, and generally a better average.

 

Also, the top levels of our system are unscathed so (to be a dead horse) Gonzalez isn't completely out of the question, and that would give us a good offense to go with the pitching.

 

[qwerty]

I'm late to thread, so I'm just gonna say I like the move, since we're getting a Pods at almost half the cost, younger, less injury prone, slightly better D, better on base paths, and generally a better average.

 

Also, the top levels of our system are unscathed so (to be a dead horse) Gonzalez isn't completely out of the question, and that would give us a good offense to go with the pitching.

 

Podsednik is not gonna make 5, 6, 7, etc million a season... unless we are talking about yen.

[DBAHO]

Pierre is going to play left, Rios will remain in center.

Oh good, I only read the trade blurb on Yahoo and Rotoworld and they indicated that Pierre would play CF.

 

It'll be interesting to see who has the better numbers next season b/w Podsednik and Pierre also.

[ptatc]

Just wait until the stats guys hear this. The board will flame with how bad of a leadoff hitter he is and how bad of a move this is.

 

Personally, I think it's an ok move. Not great but should help.

 

I just wanted to end the day like it began and bump my earlier thought. It has been an immensely entertaining if not predictable discussion.

[Texsox]

I really don't know how you can say they are better now than they were on October 4. They might be, they might not be. The Sox were 7 games worse than MN. I know the popular position to take is Quentin will be healthy, Beckham will be around an entire year, Rios will be improved, Jenks will be better, the rotation is great and no one will get hurt, Teahan will shine away from KC, Putz will be the 2006-7 JJ Putz, etc. But can't Minnesota say the same thing? Mauer missed a month. Mourneau missed a month. JJ Hardy has just a good a chance to snap back as anyone the White Sox have acquired. People make a lot out of them moving out of the dome and losing their big advantage, but the dome had nothing to do with their kicking the White Sox around there in 2009, and their line-up has seemingly evolved to make them ready for the move outdoors. They have a pretty nice line-up. I would imagine the will have Slowey back as he missed half the season.

 

The Sox still need a lot more offense. As soon as they get at least another significant bat, I will be optimistic.

 

Nice analysis, well written. I disagree on a few points. Yes, both teams can make similar claims, that's why they play the games. By the time spring training comes around, the talking heads will pick the Sox anywhere from 1st to 3rd and someone will even predict 4th. We'll call them all idiots unless they have the Sox #1.

 

The point that NSS made, that I thought is valid, is each move for the past six months has improved the team. Even if they stopped here, the team is better. With the tone, it would seem like we took steps backwards. Perhaps the strides aren't bigger, but that level of improvement by trade is tough and almost never happens.

[Sox72]

I just wanted to end the day like it began and bump my earlier thought. It has been an immensely entertaining if not predictable discussion.

 

You completely ruin Soxtalk for me. As I'm scrolling through trying to read up on my favorite team, I sporadically come across a picture of a man with his elbow twisted backwards. I try not to look, but is that possible? Not a chance. I read these threads with one eye closed, hoping to avoid seeing your pic. I hope you're proud.

[monomach]

Agreed that OBP is most important, but LOL at speed being irrelevant. If that were the case, Dye would've been leading off for the past three years.

It's like you didn't read a thing I said. Dye's OBP is not good enough to lead off.

 

We already have a 2B. Lopez has had injury issues and sucks defensively.

Our 2B could easily be a 3B, a shortstop, or even a DH. As for Lopez, UZR/150 tells us that he's a better fielder at second than Alexei, Teahen, Beckham, or Konerko are at any position. That's right. He would be the best infielder of all of our starters and you just called him bad.

 

Another injury-prone dinosaur who isn't much of an outfielder.

He's no more injury prone than Quentin. That "dinosaur" has average speed and has always gotten on base at an above-average rate. I have no idea why you're talking about how he is as an outfielder. He's never been one. He's a plus-plus glove at first base, which is where he would play (pushing Konerko to DH).

 

Yeah, it would've been better if we had the Yankees lineup. You do realize that we have a massive hole in the middle of the lineup and that Beckham's going to probably have the second highest OPS on the team this year, right?

It doesn't matter how powerful your lineup is. It's been proven that you still get more runs that way. Rickey Henderson often led his teams in OPS and was still the greatest leadoff man in history...and no, it wasn't because he could steal bases. It was because he could get on base. He was still a good leadoff man when he was hitting .227 and barely stealing because he could draw walks.

 

Yeah, if we gave up Floyd, Hudson, and Flowers, I'm sure that the Rays would've been more than happy to give us Upton. And even if Kenny was dumb enough to make that trade, there is no "metric" that "agrees" that Upton's going to rebound. His power numbers feel off the table in 2008 and actually worsened AFTER the surgery.

So you're saying "Upton is a useless piece of crap, but it would cost us everyone to get him". That's a huge oxymoron. All of the Upton rumors have him going for much less than that. That package would probably bring us Adrian freaking Gonzalez....and yes, there are metrics that show he's due to rebound.

 

You're just drinking the Kenny Williams kool-aid and making some really strange excuses for his poor decision. If we get Hudson or Lopez, they HAVE to play 2B, but if we get Mientkiewicz he has to be an outfielder? lol? You claimed an above-average defender was bad to advance your point. You labelled a guy as injury-prone because over 11 years he's had a bad concussion and one shoulder surgery.

[kjshoe04]

Oh good, I only read the trade blurb on Yahoo and Rotoworld and they indicated that Pierre would play CF.

 

It'll be interesting to see who has the better numbers next season b/w Podsednik and Pierre also.

That could be hard as I could see either one being injured/benched for extended periods of time.

[SoxAce]

Oh, you mean like Alejandro De Aza

 

Which is a shame cause I was gonna pick him as my dark horse to win the LF job and bat leadoff in ST sadly... I think Ozzie would have really liked what he brings.

 

 

After all this, I'm gonna be glad (and it's gonna be interesting) to see how Quentin handles RF again. And I hope we see a big move (Adrian/Dunn/etc..) for DH instead of the rotating bulls*** Ozzie wants, to help stomach Pierre hitting leadoff. (I pray he hits like he did last year or the Marlin years)

[CanOfCorn]

Well, I don't feel like reading 28 pages soooo...

 

The Sox wanted Pierre for years. The Sox got Pierre. They got him for 2/8mil. Not bad at all. So, he doesn't walk a lot and he has a noodle for an arm. I'm sure there are numerous comparisons between Pierre and Pods. Here's the difference...Pierre knows how to run the bases correctly. He's not going to get picked off nearly as much. And he's better in the outfield, even if his arm is noodle-y. I think it's an above average deal. Not fantastic, but workable and great for the money.

[lostfan]

Well, I don't feel like reading 28 pages soooo...

 

The Sox wanted Pierre for years. The Sox got Pierre. They got him for 2/8mil. Not bad at all. So, he doesn't walk a lot and he has a noodle for an arm. I'm sure there are numerous comparisons between Pierre and Pods. Here's the difference...Pierre knows how to run the bases correctly. He's not going to get picked off nearly as much. And he's better in the outfield, even if his arm is noodle-y. I think it's an above average deal. Not fantastic, but workable and great for the money.

I don't know where this comes from, I mean I guess he isn't a complete bonehead out there like Pods, but his percentages aren't a whole lot better.

[CanOfCorn]

I don't know where this comes from, I mean I guess he isn't a complete bonehead out there like Pods, but his percentages aren't a whole lot better.

 

Unless Pierre has gotten dumber over the years, he's a pretty good baserunner. Pods is...well...not.

[Kalapse]

Well, I don't feel like reading 28 pages soooo...

 

The Sox wanted Pierre for years. The Sox got Pierre. They got him for 2/8mil. Not bad at all. So, he doesn't walk a lot and he has a noodle for an arm. I'm sure there are numerous comparisons between Pierre and Pods. Here's the difference...Pierre knows how to run the bases correctly. He's not going to get picked off nearly as much. And he's better in the outfield, even if his arm is noodle-y. I think it's an above average deal. Not fantastic, but workable and great for the money.

He's in the bottom 9% of all qualified hitters in BB% over the past 3 seasons. Isn't that kind of a big deal for the guy who will get the most PA on your team and hit in front of RBI men? When you're looking for a leadoff hitter the first thing you look for is a high walk rate and to go along with that; a guy who can take some pitches and work the count, not only does Pierre not do either well, he's very bad at each.