White Sox acquire Juan Pierre

[SoxAce]

A positive I can take from this is I only count 2 guys so far in our lineup who are slow, so we will be a much faster team this year, and less station to station which is what Ozzie wants. Damn near every guy can go from first to third, or second to home.

[Melissa1334]

He's in the bottom 9% of all qualified hitters in BB% over the past 3 seasons. Isn't that kind of a big deal for the guy who will get the most PA on your team and hit in front of RBI men? When you're looking for a leadoff hitter the first thing you look for is a high walk rate and to go along with that; a guy who can take some pitches and work the count, not only does Pierre not do either well, he's very bad at each.

im not trying to compare the 2, but ichiro walked only 32 times last yr. ur leadoff hitter doesnt have to walk. and he had a .386 obp without the walks. nice if he could but not necessary.

[YonderLaroche]

He's in the bottom 9% of all qualified hitters in BB% over the past 3 seasons. Isn't that kind of a big deal for the guy who will get the most PA on your team and hit in front of RBI men? When you're looking for a leadoff hitter the first thing you look for is a high walk rate and to go along with that; a guy who can take some pitches and work the count, not only does Pierre not do either well, he's very bad at each.

 

Juan Pierre VS Jose Reyes (MLBS best leadoff man)... I'm going to use Pierres stats in 07 where he had his last full year and Reyes stats from 08 on his last full season.

 

PIERRE REYES

AVG .293 .297

Runs 96 113

RBI 41 68

2B 24 37

3B 8 19

SB 64/15 56/15

BB 33 66

SO 37 82

OBP .331 .358

SAC B 20 5

FLD % .987 .974

 

 

Reyes is clearly the better, but not by much. I'm tired of people whining about this... the Sox are paying 3mil for a legit leadoff hitter who can hit .300 and swipe 60 bases.... he don't strike out, can steal a base, and throw the pitcher off when on base for the 2,3,4 hitters.. and he can bunt. he's consistant his whole career, rested the past 2 years, and never had a major injury. A stolen base is more valuable than a walk when your stealing over 60... there's a huge difference with a runner in scoring position and no one out and a slow guy on first with nobody out (last year ex thome, dye, pk, cq, pods getting picked off)

Edited December 16, 2009 by b-Rye

[BigSqwert]

If Pierre could consistently hit in the .350-.360 range then no one will complain about the lack of walks.

[Kalapse]

im not trying to compare the 2, but ichiro walked only 32 times last yr. ur leadoff hitter doesnt have to walk. and he had a .386 obp without the walks. nice if he could but not necessary.

You are absolutely right. If Juan Pierre hits .350 next year his lack of walks will not be an issue.

[monomach]

im not trying to compare the 2, but ichiro walked only 32 times last yr. ur leadoff hitter doesnt have to walk. and he had a .386 obp without the walks. nice if he could but not necessary.

It's impossible to defend Pierre's walk rate with Ichiro's. Juan Pierre is never going to hit .352!

[BigSqwert]

....and Doctor.

[Melissa1334]

You are absolutely right. If Juan Pierre hits .350 next year his lack of walks will not be an issue.

which is why i said im not comparing the two. i just said that its not necessary. u can still be good if u dont walk

[monomach]

Juan Pierre VS Jose Reyes (MLBS best leadoff man)... I'm going to use Pierres stats in 07 where he had his last full year and Reyes stats from 08 on his last full season.

 

PIERRE REYES

AVG .293 .297

Runs 96 113

RBI 41 68

2B 24 37

3B 8 19

SB 64/15 56/15

BB 33 66

SO 37 82

OBP .331 .358

SAC B 20 5

FLD % .987 .974

 

 

Reyes is clearly the better, but not by much. I'm tired of people whining about this... the Sox are paying 3mil for a legit leadoff hitter who can hit .300 and swipe 60 bases....

Those stats show that Reyes is miles beyond Pierre, actually. I'm not sure where you get "not by much." That's a .685 OPS vs a .833 OPS. That's like saying Pujols is better than Konerko, but not by much.

[SoxAce]

If Juan Pierre hits like he did last year overall a FULL course of a season (just give me an average .350 OBP) then I'll be more than happy with him, cause we all know he will hit for average. I guess we can say our overall team K rate will definitely be down this season.

[BigSqwert]

which is why i said im not comparing the two. i just said that its not necessary. u can still be good if u dont walk

So it's ok that he doesn't walk much because Ichiro doesn't walk much...plus he's a much worse hitter than Ichiro, but you're not comparing the two. Huh?

[Melissa1334]

So it's ok that he doesn't walk much because Ichiro doesn't walk much...plus he's a much worse hitter than Ichiro, but you're not comparing the two. Huh?

no,im saying that its not necessary for a leadoff guy to have a high walk total. ill take sizemore as my leadoff guy anyday and he walked 60 times only . even with his .248 avg

[SoxAce]

no,im saying that its not necessary for a leadoff guy to have a high walk total. ill take sizemore as my leadoff guy anyday and he walked 60 times only . even with his .248 avg

 

Sizemore also has a career .367 OBP, not to mention hasn't had been below a .340 OBP since his rookie year, and he (nor Granderson) are really "leadoff" type hitters, cause of their power (or power potential).

Edited December 16, 2009 by SoxAce

[monomach]

no,im saying that its not necessary for a leadoff guy to have a high walk total. ill take sizemore as my leadoff guy anyday and he walked 60 times only . even with his .248 avg

You're bringing up guys who are twice as good as Pierre. They have nothing to do with Pierre's s***ty walk rate because one of them can hit for a league-leader type of average and one of them can hit for power and actually does walk twice as much as Pierre (in other words, at an average rate). Neither of these players is similar to Pierre in any way.

 

"It's ok for Joe Crede to strike out a lot because Adam Dunn strikes out a lot, too."

 

See?

Edited December 16, 2009 by monomach

[Melissa1334]

Sizemore also has a career .367 OBP, not to mention hasn't had been below a .340 OBP since his rookie year, and he (nor Granderson) are really "leadoff" type hitters, cause of their power (or power potential).

ill be very happy if pierre hits .315, .345obp, and walked..24-30 times, fine by me. whatever,just glad pods isnt on this team anymore lol

[Kalapse]

Juan Pierre VS Jose Reyes (MLBS best leadoff man)... I'm going to use Pierres stats in 07 where he had his last full year and Reyes stats from 08 on his last full season.

 

PIERRE REYES

AVG .293 .297

Runs 96 113

RBI 41 68

2B 24 37

3B 8 19

SB 64/15 56/15

BB 33 66

SO 37 82

OBP .331 .358

SAC B 20 5

FLD % .987 .974

 

 

Reyes is clearly the better, but not by much. I'm tired of people whining about this... the Sox are paying 3mil for a legit leadoff hitter who can hit .300 and swipe 60 bases....

Wow, just wow.

 

So the 25 points of OBP, .100 points of ISO, Reyes' 2 seasons with an OPS in the mid .800's (how many players have his speed and XBH combo?) and the fact that he's only 27 and still played to his full potential means next to nothing? The FLD% was a cute touch, Pierre's a good LF with the worst arm in the game and Reyes is an above average defensive SS, another huge plus in Reyes' corner.

 

So in your world .283/.331/.353/.685 and a .317 wOBA is roughly the same as a .279/.358/.475/.833, .366 wOBA season? Holy crap.

 

In 2008 Reyes was worth 26.1 runs above average.

 

Pierre in 2007? -6.7

[Melissa1334]

You're bringing up guys who are twice as good as Pierre. They have nothing to do with Pierre's s***ty walk rate because one of them can hit for a league-leader type of average and one of them can hit for power and walk twice as much as Pierre. Neither of these players is similar to Pierre in any way.

 

"It's ok for Joe Crede to strike out a lot because Adam Dunn strikes out a lot, too."

 

See?

no, because i wasnt comparing , i was saying about leadoff men in general, they dont have to walk because if they dont thats awful.

[YonderLaroche]

Those stats show that Reyes is miles beyond Pierre, actually. I'm not sure where you get "not by much." That's a .685 OPS vs a .833 OPS. That's like saying Pujols is better than Konerko, but not by much.

 

I'm just saying he's a good leadoff man that will make things happen. He's outperformed the '05 Pods his whole career and we won a world series with pods that year. He will make things happen and that will help the 2,3,4,5 hitters...

[monomach]

Wow, just wow.

 

So the 25 points of OBP, .100 points of ISO, Reyes' 2 seasons with an OPS in the mid .800's (how many players have his speed and XBH combo?) and the fact that he's only 27 and still played to his full potential means next to nothing? The FLD% was a cute touch, Pierre's a good LF with the worst arm in the game and Reyes is an above average defensive SS, another huge plus in Reyes' corner.

 

So in your world .283/.331/.353/.685 and a .317 wOBA is roughly the same as a .279/.358/.475/.833, .366 wOBA season? Holy crap.

 

In 2008 Reyes was worth 26.1 runs above average.

 

Pierre in 2007? -6.7

Bingo. Like I told him...it's like saying that Pujols is only a little better than Konerko.

[monomach]

no, because i wasnt comparing , i was saying about leadoff men in general, they dont have to walk because if they dont thats awful.

One of the leadoff guys you named DOES walk, though.

 

The other one is obviously a statistical outlier. People don't just hit for Ichiro's average every year...except for Ichiro himself.

Edited December 16, 2009 by monomach

[SoxAce]

I would say a better comparison to Pierre in regards to a leadoff hitter was his old teammate and pretty much a leadoff hitter his whole career.. Luis Castillo and Castillo still walks a bit more but also K's a bit more. I would take Castillo over Pierre anyday.

Edited December 16, 2009 by SoxAce

[sircaffey]

Sizemore walked 60 times in 106 games. That's around 90 walks over a full season, a lot.

[monomach]

I'm just saying he's a good leadoff man that will make things happen. He's outperformed the '05 Pods his whole career and we won a world series with pods that year. He will make things happen and that will help the 2,3,4,5 hitters...

But he's not a good leadoff man. Neither was 05 Pods. We didn't win in 05 because of Pods. We won because we pitched well and hit a lot of home runs.

[Kalapse]

no,im saying that its not necessary for a leadoff guy to have a high walk total. ill take sizemore as my leadoff guy anyday and he walked 60 times only . even with his .248 avg

60 times in 436 AB, that's a 12.1% walk rate. League average is 9.1%. Grady Sizemore draws an incredible number of walks.

[YonderLaroche]

Wow, just wow.

 

So the 25 points of OBP, .100 points of ISO, Reyes' 2 seasons with an OPS in the mid .800's (how many players have his speed and XBH combo?) and the fact that he's only 27 and still played to his full potential means next to nothing? The FLD% was a cute touch, Pierre's a good LF with the worst arm in the game and Reyes is an above average defensive SS, another huge plus in Reyes' corner.

 

So in your world .283/.331/.353/.685 and a .317 wOBA is roughly the same as a .279/.358/.475/.833, .366 wOBA season? Holy crap.

 

In 2008 Reyes was worth 26.1 runs above average.

 

Pierre in 2007? -6.7

 

I said Reyes is claimed to be the best leadoff guy in the game.. His numbers are clearly better, and he's the better player.. Pierre can and will be a good enough leadoff guy for a near .300avg, 100runs scored, 60+ rbi, and will help the 2,3,4 hitters... something we haven't had all season since 05.