Panic! At the Soxtalk

[WCSox]

just like Panic! at the disco you guys need to stop being emo, ya i went there

 

"Hang the DJ, hang the DJ!"

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

People tend to put over-value the contribution of a manager to a team's success. This isn't the NFL, where offensive and defensive schemes make all of the difference. Baseball mangers don't coach, they manage... pitch counts, egos, etc. They fill out the lineup card, sit in the dugout, eat sunflower seeds, pull the starter when he's out of gas, and talk to the media afterwards. If it's a really important game, they might talk to Joe Buck in the 5th inning. Managers are primarily leaders and motivators. A good pitching coach (Don Cooper, Dave Duncan, Mel Stottlemyre, Leo Mazzone) will help a team win a lot more games than a good manager.

 

If you want to point fingers, point them at the declining, injury-prone veterans who didn't get it done in 2007 and 2009.

 

You know, I agree with most of this. But I'm not giving Ozzie, or even KW, a free lifetime pass for 2005 (not that it matters what the hell I think). With this rotation in place, there's no excuses. I figure 90 games will be what it takes to win this division. If we can't do that, somebody has or should take the fall.

Edited December 18, 2009 by Jordan4life

[Melissa1334]

People tend to over-value the contribution of a manager to a team's success. This isn't the NFL, where offensive and defensive schemes make all of the difference. Baseball mangers don't coach, they manage... pitch counts, egos, etc. They fill out the lineup card, sit in the dugout, eat sunflower seeds, pull the starter when he's out of gas, and talk to the media afterwards. If it's a really important game, they might talk to Joe Buck in the 5th inning. Managers are primarily leaders and motivators. A good pitching coach (Don Cooper, Dave Duncan, Mel Stottlemyre, Leo Mazzone) will help a team win a lot more games than a good manager.

 

If you want to point fingers, point them at the declining, injury-prone veterans who didn't get it done in 2007 and 2009.

couldnt agree more.thats why i defend ozzie so much.

[WCSox]

You know, I agree with most of this. But I'm not giving Ozzie, or even KW, a free lifetime pass for 2005 (not that it matters what the hell I think). With this rotation in place, there's no excuses. I figure 90 games will be what it takes to win this division. If we can't do that, somebody has or should take the fall.

 

Of course nobody gets a lifetime pass, or anything close to it. That said, I don't see why Ozzie or Kenny should be pushed out the door just yet (especially the latter, who is definitely in the top third of GMs in the league). While Greg Walker might be a different story, Ozzie and Kenny aren't the reasons why the Sox missed the playoffs in '07 and '09.

 

One of the problems with setting a bar of "90 wins or else" in December is that we all have a rather crude idea of how things will shake out in the Central this year. Could anybody have predicted that the Wild Card would come out of the Central in '06, but that the defending champs would win 90 games and still miss the playoffs? What if the Central is mediocre, but Mark tears his labrum, Peavy takes a line drive to the face, and CQ separates his shoulder? A lot can happen in the next 9 1/2 months.

 

Edited December 18, 2009 by WCSox

[iamshack]

Of course nobody gets a lifetime pass, or anything close to it. That said, I don't see why Ozzie or Kenny should be pushed out the door just yet (especially the latter, who is definitely in the top third of GMs in the league). While Greg Walker might be a different story, Ozzie and Kenny aren't the reasons why the Sox missed the playoffs in '07 and '09.

 

One of the problems with setting a bar of "90 wins or else" in December is that we all have a rather crude idea of how things will shake out in the Central this year. Could anybody have predicted that the Wild Card would come out of the Central in '06, but that the defending champs would win 90 games and still miss the playoffs? What if the Central is mediocre, but Mark tears his labrum, Peavy takes a line drive to the face, and CQ separates his shoulder? A lot can happen in the next 9 1/2 months.

I'm tempted to delete this post!

 

I'll knock on wood instead...

[Jordan4life_2007]

Of course nobody gets a lifetime pass, or anything close to it. That said, I don't see why Ozzie or Kenny should be pushed out the door just yet (especially the latter, who is definitely in the top third of GMs in the league). While Greg Walker might be a different story, Ozzie and Kenny aren't the reasons why the Sox missed the playoffs in '07 and '09.

 

One of the problems with setting a bar of "90 wins or else" in December is that we all have a rather crude idea of how things will shake out in the Central this year. Could anybody have predicted that the Wild Card would come out of the Central in '06, but that the defending champs would win 90 games and still miss the playoffs? What if the Central is mediocre, but Mark tears his labrum, Peavy takes a line drive to the face, and CQ separates his shoulder? A lot can happen in the next 9 1/2 months.

 

I did say in an earlier post that 'outside of crippling injuries,' there's no way we shouldn't take this division.

[Balta1701]

Even in the most cartoonish portrayals I have seen of Ozzie in here, that would be utterly pointless, since Vizquel's value is in his defense. That is so not going to happen.

I'm going to bookmark this post.

[SI1020]

Even in the most cartoonish portrayals I have seen of Ozzie in here, that would be utterly pointless, since Vizquel's value is in his defense. That is so not going to happen.

I hope you're right, but I'm not sure you are.

 

[ThunderBolt]

Even in the most cartoonish portrayals I have seen of Ozzie in here, that would be utterly pointless, since Vizquel's value is in his defense. That is so not going to happen.

I have a similiar problem (but to a lesser extent) with the notion of Nix DH'ing. I doubt he makes the 25-man, but if does get the last spot on the bench, he has no reason to start at DH over anyone on the team.

Edited December 18, 2009 by Thunderbolt

[Chicago White Sox]

I'm going to bookmark this post.

I can almost guarantee that Guillen will sit Pierre one day and DH Vizquel so he has a leadoff hitter.

[WCSox]

I have a similiar problem (but to a lesser extent) with the notion of Nix DH'ing. I doubt he makes the 25-man, but if does get the last spot on the bench, he has no reason to start at DH over anyone on the team.

 

Nix should have Vizquel's role. I'm beginning to think that Vizquel was a complete waste of money and will be a waste of roster space. If you want somebody to coach Alexei, bring him to Spring Training as an instructor.

 

[Balta1701]

Nix should have Vizquel's role. I'm beginning to think that Vizquel was a complete waste of money and will be a waste of roster space. If you want somebody to coach Alexei, bring him to Spring Training as an instructor.

My problem with that idea is...Nix appeared to be awful at defense from the left side of the diamond when he was used there.

[Chicago White Sox]

Nix should have Vizquel's role. I'm beginning to think that Vizquel was a complete waste of money and will be a waste of roster space. If you want somebody to coach Alexei, bring him to Spring Training as an instructor.

I like the addition of Vizquel, but I just feel like Ozzie will overuse him. He always plays his bench too much IMO, especially the speedy and/or defense-oriented guys. He'll probably start him way too much and bat him at the top of the lineup. Nix can't play solid defense at SS and 3B right now and is too much of an all-or-nothing hitter. In a backup role, I'd easily take Vizquel if there's one spot open.

[NorthSideSox72]

I can almost guarantee that Guillen will sit Pierre one day and DH Vizquel so he has a leadoff hitter.

I'm usually an Ozzie defender, but that would be idiotic. And I highly doubt it happens (barring some weird injuries or a Dye at Shortstop type scenario, for a few innings).

 

[WCSox]

My problem with that idea is...Nix appeared to be awful at defense from the left side of the diamond when he was used there.

 

He committed a number of errors for sure. I think that he'll be able to work that out eventually and don't have a problem with him in a utility role, but that's JMO.

 

[ptatc]

Nix should have Vizquel's role. I'm beginning to think that Vizquel was a complete waste of money and will be a waste of roster space. If you want somebody to coach Alexei, bring him to Spring Training as an instructor.

 

With this pitching staff, it's more important to have defense in your backups. This team will ive and die by defense and pitching.

[Ranger]

Yeah, now that I think about it KW does not really need to tell Ozzie to STFU. He brought up Bacon against Ozzie's wishes and bingo look what happened. But for Ozzie to publicly say he like our offense is not good.

 

Why? Why is it a bad thing for him to publicly say he likes the players he has? What possible harm can that cause? I can't think of one real, good reason he shouldn't say that.

 

Once again, I think this is a case of people unnecessarily freaking out over something Ozzie says. I'm certain they both would like to have another hitter at this point, but it doesn't mean they'll find one. And I think the last thing you should want is for them to go into the season and say publicly, "this team we have is ok, but we wish we could've gotten another hitter." Not exactly the best way to set the tone of confidence in your club to start the year.

 

It looks to me like they're just setting this up in case it doesn't happen. And I think they should at least say they believe in their team.

[southsider2k5]

Why? Why is it a bad thing for him to publicly say he likes the players he has? What possible harm can that cause? I can't think of one real, good reason he shouldn't say that.

 

Once again, I think this is a case of people unnecessarily freaking out over something Ozzie says. I'm certain they both would like to have another hitter at this point, but it doesn't mean they'll find one. And I think the last thing you should want is for them to go into the season and say publicly, "this team we have is ok, but we wish we could've gotten another hitter." Not exactly the best way to set the tone of confidence in your club to start the year.

 

It looks to me like they're just setting this up in case it doesn't happen. And I think they should at least say they believe in their team.

 

So true. And exactly the way that they operate.

[Harry Chappas]

I would love to have a Soxtalk poker tournament as you could bluff your way through the game.

[Eminor3rd]

Ozzie just wants a team of guys that were just like him when he played. Good defense, decent speed, mediocre bat with no power.

 

There... I said it.

[simba43]

Ozzie just wants a team of guys that were just like him when he played. Good defense, decent speed, mediocre bat with no power.

 

There... I said it.

well were getting there .

[chisoxfan09]

Why? Why is it a bad thing for him to publicly say he likes the players he has? What possible harm can that cause? I can't think of one real, good reason he shouldn't say that.

 

Once again, I think this is a case of people unnecessarily freaking out over something Ozzie says. I'm certain they both would like to have another hitter at this point, but it doesn't mean they'll find one. And I think the last thing you should want is for them to go into the season and say publicly, "this team we have is ok, but we wish we could've gotten another hitter." Not exactly the best way to set the tone of confidence in your club to start the year.

 

It looks to me like they're just setting this up in case it doesn't happen. And I think they should at least say they believe in their team.

 

Well, with a glaring power bat missing I would think Ozzie has learned for one that a line up is a balance of strengths and weaknesses. I was not advocating we dithc the swing for the fences lineup but a good left handed bat is a perfect balance to everything else we have.

[Ranger]

Ozzie just wants a team of guys that were just like him when he played. Good defense, decent speed, mediocre bat with no power.

 

There... I said it.

 

And you would be wrong.

 

 

Well, with a glaring power bat missing I would think Ozzie has learned for one that a line up is a balance of strengths and weaknesses. I was not advocating we dithc the swing for the fences lineup but a good left handed bat is a perfect balance to everything else we have.

 

 

But what you said was that he shouldn't "publicly" say that. My question to you is why not? What does it matter what he says? What he says and what they want can be two different things. I'm sure he'd much rather have another hitter in that lineup, but he's not going to go into the season saying, "well this isn't quite what we wanted but we'll see what happens." He's going to say publicly that he believes in what he has.

[kev211]

Why? Why is it a bad thing for him to publicly say he likes the players he has? What possible harm can that cause? I can't think of one real, good reason he shouldn't say that.

 

Once again, I think this is a case of people unnecessarily freaking out over something Ozzie says. I'm certain they both would like to have another hitter at this point, but it doesn't mean they'll find one. And I think the last thing you should want is for them to go into the season and say publicly, "this team we have is ok, but we wish we could've gotten another hitter." Not exactly the best way to set the tone of confidence in your club to start the year.

 

It looks to me like they're just setting this up in case it doesn't happen. And I think they should at least say they believe in their team.

Thank you for putting what I was thinking into words.

[Brian]

I think it is possible that by years end, Konerko could be the primary DH. Kotsay has shown he can play 1B just as well as Paulie.