Princess Dye Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 A few times now we've lost out on a player to LAA. You can kind of see how this thing boiled down to the Sox probably offering Matsui 1 year 5M and probably just set the market for one of his two preferred teams to go higher. And then after that we just went and got Putz/Pierre. We have so many scrap heap guys and guys we traded for......it just makes me doubt that we can bring cream of the crop guys here ever via FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 Since we're looking at roughly 6M for either side of that..... would you have preferred going a route with Matsui (and I guess Beckham leading off....DJ staying...?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 16, 2009 -> 09:10 PM) Since we're looking at roughly 6M for either side of that..... would you have preferred going a route with Matsui (and I guess Beckham leading off....DJ staying...?) I was thinking about this yesterday, and I realized one thing. No way Matsui signs here for $6.5 million when the Angels are making the same offer. My guess is he would have required something closer to $8 million in order to pass the Angels and sign with us. So it's not really $6.5 million we're talking here. It's more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 16, 2009 -> 09:12 PM) I was thinking about this yesterday, and I realized one thing. No way Matsui signs here for $6.5 million when the Angels are making the same offer. My guess is he would have required something closer to $8 million in order to pass the Angels and sign with us. So it's not really $6.5 million we're talking here. It's more. Probably right. But I think it still stands since we've committed potentially more to Putz with incentives anyway. Kenny is given a worst case scenario dollar figure I guess, and thus far 3M (Pierre) plus whatever Putz can potentially make....is what kw was given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 16, 2009 -> 09:08 PM) We have so many scrap heap guys and guys we traded for......it just makes me doubt that we can bring cream of the crop guys here ever via FA. Joey Belle is insulted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YonderLaroche Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 (edited) I don't think so... when's the last time the sox went out and got a free agent to come here that wasn't looking to 'rebuild his image' because of injury or attitude/performance problem. (Putz, Jones, Vizquel, Pods, Garcia, Colon, Dye, AJP, (alexei, iguchi, viceiedo were from out of country) Also overpay: (Dotel, Linebrink)... I think this organization has a bad rep around the MLB because of Ozzie and KW. Ozzie because he's an ass and will slam his players publicly and bench them when they don't perform. (Swisher situation, Crede, Cabrera, Magglio) and KW because of the lack of commitment on long term deals (which is a good thing) and things like the Cabrerea situation where he offered arb but told him he would sit on the bench. Therefore Cabrera lost millions in free agency and a decent contract so KW could get a draft pick.. Edited December 17, 2009 by b-Rye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 If I remember right, Dye had a handshake agreement with KW before he initially signed with us but actually had offers from other teams that were more than what we were paying him. That either says something about him as a man or maybe some desire to play in Chicago? Most of the time its not about a player wanting to play somewhere as it is who is going to pay him the most, only teams that may get a small discount are the players current team or hometown team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 This team has a bad rap for being good business people. Like b-Rye said...pitchers don't usually get deals for more than 3 years, with a few exceptions. Position players the same thing although the Sox seem to add a year or two for positions. And that's a good thing. Make them earn it. The problem iwhen it comes to playeris...players, or more to the point, agents, don't look long term, they look at right now. That's what an agent should do. Give me the most you can right now. Also why Boras and the Sox don't get along. So, I don't think that the Sox have a bad rap when it comes to actually PLAYING here...it's the PAY here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Also, keep in mind the Sox don't get in bidding wars and the last time they almost landed a big FA (Hunter) the Angels swooped in at the last moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunk23 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 KW did say he wasn't interested in Matsui during the winter meetings, maybe he was actually telling the truth for once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 16, 2009 -> 07:12 PM) I was thinking about this yesterday, and I realized one thing. No way Matsui signs here for $6.5 million when the Angels are making the same offer. My guess is he would have required something closer to $8 million in order to pass the Angels and sign with us. If I were a foreign-born player and had no regional ties, there's pretty much no way that I'd take Chicago over SoCal without major financial incentive. If the Padres were as well-run and successful as the Angels, they'd be an even bigger draw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 From Merkin's twitter: Switch-hitting 1B/OF Jason Botts will get a Major League Spring Training invite from the White Sox. Last played for Texas and in Japan Pshh, free agents DO want to come here ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (Real @ Dec 16, 2009 -> 11:12 PM) From Merkin's twitter: Pshh, free agents DO want to come here ! At one point, Botts looked like a decent prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 12:05 AM) At one point, Botts looked like a decent prospect. Correct me if I'm wrong, but at one point, he was one hell of a prospect, wasn't he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 12:07 AM) Correct me if I'm wrong, but at one point, he was one hell of a prospect, wasn't he? Ranked #8 in the Rangers organization in 2006. #9 in 2007. He wasn't great, but he was at least decent. He was drafted in the 46th round, so he kind of came out of nowhere. Edited December 17, 2009 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Well there you go, Jason Botts, our everyday DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 12:08 AM) Ranked #8 in the Rangers organization in 2006. #9 in 2007. He wasn't great, but he was at least decent. He was drafted in the 46th round, so he kind of came out of nowhere. Oh, my bad. Crap. I am having a bad day around here today... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 The same people who are slamming the Sox for signing Scott Linebrink are complaining that no free agents want to come here. In order to get FA's to come here, the sox have to overpay, just like other teams do. That means offering more money and more years than the next team,despite what the players true "value" is. That usually doesn't turn out very well, as many teams are saddled with huge contracts that they cannot get rid of. The Cubs are the perfect case in point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 FA will come to the White Sox. Chicago is always ranked as the favorite visiting city in MLB. Players generally go to the place that offers them the most cash. The White Sox aren't known for that, and if it becomes a bidding war, they usually drop out. It has nothing to do with wanting to play for Ozzie or on the other side of town, wanting to play at Wrigley Field. Its all about the benjamins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 (edited) FAs who hit the market are often there because they are looking for the biggest contract and the Sox usually make a business decision to cut down the years, if they went the extra years I'm sure big FAs would come here. Didn't we go through this with Peavy the first time around? He used his NTC that he and his agent negotiated to explore his options, eventually he came decided to come here, to me that's like a major FA signing with the White Sox. If the Sox would have offered Matsui more money he would be here, if the LAA didn't give Hunter more money he would be here. It comes down to $$$ for 99% of the FAs. Did people start wondering if players wanted to go to Boston when Giles turned down a trade there? They got Cameron and Lackey because they offered the most money. Why wouldn't Halladay OK a trade to an NL team that made the WS the last 2 years and won one of them until he negotiated an extension??? Money!!! (which is A-OK by me, if you have a unique talent that people will pay for you have the option to maximize that earning potential or take a little less to stay where you're comfortable, both happen and I understand both) Edited December 17, 2009 by SoxFan562004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 16, 2009 -> 07:12 PM) I was thinking about this yesterday, and I realized one thing. No way Matsui signs here for $6.5 million when the Angels are making the same offer. My guess is he would have required something closer to $8 million in order to pass the Angels and sign with us. So it's not really $6.5 million we're talking here. It's more. The White Sox were one of very few teams Hideki looked at. And we don't even know if the Sox actually make an offer for Matsui. Clearly there was interest in both sides and Matsui had an interest in playing in Chicago. I think if the two clubs made similar offers, Matsui would be a White Sox and not an Angel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 11:24 AM) The White Sox were one of very few teams Hideki looked at. And we don't even know if the Sox actually make an offer for Matsui. Clearly there was interest in both sides and Matsui had an interest in playing in Chicago. I think if the two clubs made similar offers, Matsui would be a White Sox and not an Angel. Why would he want to come here as opposed to the Angels, who have won their division and made the playoffs for the last 5 years? Especially after seeing the success his former teammate Bobby Abreu had with the Angels? Is this inside info, Jason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 10:00 AM) Why would he want to come here as opposed to the Angels, who have won their division and made the playoffs for the last 5 years? Especially after seeing the success his former teammate Bobby Abreu had with the Angels? Is this inside info, Jason? Chicago is a large Japanese market that has had a few Japanese players who have came and said nothing but good things about the place. They are the 3rd largest market in the world as well. And the Sox have a tremendous pitching staff. The Angels have lost Lackey, Texeira, K-Rod, and Figgins in two years time and have had a horrendous off-season to date. Yes they play in a poor division, but I'd be hard pressed to see many experts that wouldn't say the Sox have as good of a shot as the Angels this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I think the Sox are just more financially responsible. If you think at all the money that is thrown around, what percentage of contracts actually end up favoring the team and not the player: Chan Ho Park Darren Dreifort Kevin Brown Mike Hampton Denny Neagle Barry Zito Javier Vazquez (when he signed with NYY) Carl Pavano Bobby Higginson Magglio Ordonez (he was good but isn't worth what he's making now) This is just to name a few. I'm glad we don't get into the bidding wars and end up with a contract that limits our flexibility long term. Also, spending money doesn't guarantee you to win anything. Just look at the Yankees. Top payroll in baseball for I don't know how long and they won their first world series in like 5 years. Our payroll in 2005 was in the $70's and we won it all. We have since spent more money and we've been under .500 twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 01:23 PM) Chicago is a large Japanese market that has had a few Japanese players who have came and said nothing but good things about the place. They are the 3rd largest market in the world as well. And the Sox have a tremendous pitching staff. The Angels have lost Lackey, Texeira, K-Rod, and Figgins in two years time and have had a horrendous off-season to date. Yes they play in a poor division, but I'd be hard pressed to see many experts that wouldn't say the Sox have as good of a shot as the Angels this year. Well, I'll agree to disagree. I think LA/Anaheim is a more attractive option for most free agents than the South Side, and in Matsui's case, there is a far bigger asian population in SoCal than in Chicago. I think all things being even, he would have chosen LA over here 10 times out of 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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