Freddy Garcia vs. Daniel Hudson vs. other options

[Marky Mark]

Personally, I really don't feel comfortable with Garcia at all. He did far better than I expected him to last year, but should we really depend on him for much of anything? Typically teams don't have a 5th starter they're comfortable with, so if he comes out with a high fours ERA maybe it wouldn't be so bad considering he's our 5th. But do you think that Huddy would do better as a starter if he's still on the team in 2010? Personally I'd rather see Hudson than Garcia, if he's on the team I don't really want him to be a reliever. What do you guys think? We really don't have any other minor league options that are realistic as a MLB starter.

[Balta1701]

Unless he's injured, Garcia starts the season in the 5th slot and gets at least a month. He pitched well enough down the stretch to earn that, and he keeps going as long as he's not being regularly shelled.

 

Hudson might be better as a starter next year, but there's no reason to rush him into the role, esp. if it can buy us another year before he hits FA by keeping him in the minors for the first 2 months of the year and at the same time he benefits from pitching in AAA for a while.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I really think this isnt much of a discussion at all IMO, Freddy only had 2 games last year where he allowed more than 3 runs and one of em was his first game of the year, only allowed more than 1 walk in 2 games and allowed more than 7 hits only once. Ill take that as my fifth starter. Plus if memory serves me correct Freddy was supposed to come into next season even stronger and have more velocity next year (dont remember exactly what was said but i know something along those lines were said)

 

but of course if he doesnt do well its nice to have hudson step in

Edited December 18, 2009 by 2nd_city_saint787

[Steve9347]

Gimme Freddy till he shows he can't do it.

[maggsmaggs]

Gimme Freddy till he shows he can't do it.

Agreed. I am going to give Freddy the first chance, but I hope we don't reward him for being an Ozzie guy/WS hero. If he struggles, let Hudson get in there. But I am perfectly fine with two options we have right now. FG had a 4.34 ERA with a 1.21 WHIP last year. As a fifth starter that is fine as long as he gets you into the 6th. Hopefully, another season removed from his arm issues will make him even stronger. But if we get those numbers out of Freddy again, we are going to win a lot of games against other team's fifth starters. I just hope this off-season he stayed away from the grass.

Edited December 18, 2009 by maggsmaggs

[mmmmmbeeer]

I think much like '05, Freddy will feed upon the quality of this staff and excel. I'm not sure he has the health or durability these days to pitch 150-175 innings out of the 5th spot but you've got to let him start the year in that role. Hudson looks like he's going to stick in the big leagues but he's still going to have his struggles as the league scouts him and he is introduced to the wear and tear of a full ML season. I'd prefer he take his lumps out of the pen and gain experience in low leverage situations. I suppose you could take that to mean that not only do I not want him in the 5th rotation spot, but I also don't want to see him start the year in the minors. I'm no pro-athlete but I've got to imagine that, if Freddy were to go down, it's pretty nerve-wracking to fly in from Charlotte a few hours before a game and start in a pinch. I'd rather have him get accustomed to the big league atmosphere, get used to his teammates, and come out of the pen to start if necessary.

[flavum]

Freddy will be a solid 5th starter. If he gets 30 starts, I think the Sox can go 15-15, and that's all you really want from that spot. Hudson can probably start the year in Charlotte to get some innings, and then if the bullpen or rotation needs an arm, you can bring him up in May or June.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Agreed. I am going to give Freddy the first chance, but I hope we don't reward him for being an Ozzie guy/WS hero. If he struggles, let Hudson get in there. But I am perfectly fine with two options we have right now. FG had a 4.34 ERA with a 1.21 WHIP last year. As a fifth starter that is fine as long as he gets you into the 6th. Hopefully, another season removed from his arm issues will make him even stronger. But if we get those numbers out of Freddy again, we are going to win a lot of games against other team's fifth starters. I just hope this off-season he stayed away from the grass.

 

 

to further elaborate on my previous points if you take out the 2 games where freddy allowed more than 3 runs hed have a 2.63 era albeit in only 7 games but thats our 5th starter. plus like maggs said hes gonna come back stronger. I also think the fact that he didnt have over powering stuff last year he learned to be a better pitcher so take that knowledge and add some more strength and we could see HUGE year out of freddy if he stays healthy.

[hogan873]

I didn't have to think about this one, either. Give Freddy the chance first. Based on what we saw last year, I would think he will an adequate 5th starter...at least. He could be quite good, and that would be a huge bonus.

[elrockinMT]

Personally, I really don't feel comfortable with Garcia at all. He did far better than I expected him to last year, but should we really depend on him for much of anything? Typically teams don't have a 5th starter they're comfortable with, so if he comes out with a high fours ERA maybe it wouldn't be so bad considering he's our 5th. But do you think that Huddy would do better as a starter if he's still on the team in 2010? Personally I'd rather see Hudson than Garcia, if he's on the team I don't really want him to be a reliever. What do you guys think? We really don't have any other minor league options that are realistic as a MLB starter.

 

 

Mark I really thjink you are worrying to much. It's expereince versus youth. Hudson can learn this year and unless he gets traded as so many of our prospects do than he will most likely be starting in 2011. I really believe Garcia is good for 12-15 wins as the #5 starter

[flavum]

Mark I really thjink you are worrying to much. It's expereince versus youth. Hudson can learn this year and unless he gets traded as so many of our prospects do than he will most likely be starting in 2011. I really believe Garcia is good for 12-15 wins as the #5 starter

 

 

12 would be a stretch. 15 would mean the Sox ran away with the division.

[elrockinMT]

12 would be a stretch. 15 would mean the Sox ran away with the division.

 

 

Your point being

[flavum]

Your point being

 

I hope the Big 4 get 32-33 starts each, and Garcia gets 30 starts at the most. If he gets 15 wins, it probably means the Sox go 19-11 in his starts. 8 over .500 for the 5th starter? Yes, please.

[kwolf68]

 

Ya! Freddy...dude showed something last year...he gets the shot and I think he'll be a credible 5th.

[WCSox]

Hudson's arm is also nowhere near conditioned to throw a full 190+ inning season.

 

[ThunderBolt]

Hudson's arm is also nowhere near conditioned to throw a full 190+ inning season.

Nowhere near? Hudson threw 165.3 innings last year. It's not out of the question.

[SoxAce]

The spect lover in me wants Hudson to somehow get it, or handle the rest of the reins with it (ala McCarthy) later on in the season. But it makes the most sense to start Freddy until as some said.. he doesn't pitch as good as he did last season. I'm just glad we have the depth.

[RockRaines]

Ben Sheets would be a nice 5th starter.

[mmmmmbeeer]

Ben Sheets would be a nice 5th starter.

 

 

Where's the little drooling emoticon when you need it? It'd be overkill, especially if he cost more than a 3 or 4 million, but man that would be madness if he was actually healthy for the season. That's a 5 man rotation full of 1's and 2's.

[RockRaines]

Where's the little drooling emoticon when you need it? It'd be overkill, especially if he cost more than a 3 or 4 million, but man that would be madness if he was actually healthy for the season. That's a 5 man rotation full of 1's and 2's.

I drooled on my keyboard as I typed it.

[Marky Mark]

Hudson's arm is also nowhere near conditioned to throw a full 190+ inning season.

 

 

I didn't necessarily say he could, but I have a lot more confidence in his conditioning over Freddy's.

 

Hudson 2009 : 166 IP

Garcia 2007-2009 : 173.1 IP

 

 

[Quin]

Ben Sheets would be a nice 5th starter.

 

If we deal Hudson, I'd love to get Sheets if he were cheap.

[WCSox]

Nowhere near? Hudson threw 165.3 innings last year. It's not out of the question.

 

Hudson is also only 22 years old. Danks was of similar age in 2007 and, despite throwing 156 and 140 innings in the minors over the previous two years, he went through a dead arm period in late 2007 and was so ineffective that they shut him down.

 

I imagine that Hudson would experience similar fatigue issues if he were asked to throw 190+ innings next year.

 

[lostfan]

Hudson is also only 22 years old. Danks was of similar age in 2007 and, despite throwing 156 and 140 innings in the minors over the previous two years, he went through a dead arm period in late 2007 and was so ineffective that they shut him down.

 

I imagine that Hudson would experience similar fatigue issues if he were asked to throw 190+ innings next year.

That wasn't really a dead arm period so much as it was scouting reports catching up to him and his pitches being underdeveloped/ineffective.

[SoxAce]

Hudson is also only 22 years old. Danks was of similar age in 2007 and, despite throwing 156 and 140 innings in the minors over the previous two years, he went through a dead arm period in late 2007 and was so ineffective that they shut him down.

 

I imagine that Hudson would experience similar fatigue issues if he were asked to throw 190+ innings next year.

 

Agreed. Hudson was also pitching in A, AA and AAA with basically no pressure, and getting hitters out consistently with a low pitch count (I remember seeing his pitch count average was 91.3 but I gotta double check) You don't have that wear and tear in a full MLB season where players are alot more patient and selective at the plate. He also pitched mostly out of the bullpen here.. a much different than starting.. seeing those same hitters more than once. Huddy is gonna be a good one.. but I wouldn't rush the reins with him just yet unless he really shows something in ST and/or Freddy pitches really terrible/gets injured.