The Alex Rios Mystery

[WCSox]

Partially yes because KW wanted Rios in a trade. But also because they wanted to block the Tigers. Of course, the second part of the explanation makes no sense since the Tigers have no money and couldn't have afforded him.

 

Everybody in the media knew that the Jays were desperate to dump salary and that Rios' contract was well above market value. I don't think that Kenny is dumb enough to have believed that Ricciardi would've had any incentive to work out a trade for Rios, as he has zero leverage once he claims a player off of waivers.

 

[macsandz]

Before last season every Sox fan on here would've have been thrilled at a Rios acquisition. He was considered a star already and likely to get better.

 

But, even with that his contract was large. So, he would never be a steal but if he continued at that level then this Sox would have a great player at market price.

 

However, he had a bad year last year. That's what all of this hand wringing is all about. If he plays next year like he always had prior to 2009 then all will be good. The Sox will have a great player that costs a lot of money. Oh, well.

 

They've been paying Dye, Konerko and Thome $ 10-13 mil. per season and he could be more valuable than any of them. We'll have to wait and see.

 

It could still turn out very well for the Sox.

 

You hear SO MUCH about Rios contract, but if he plays to his averages, it's pretty much market value. Certainly so for the time in which he received it.

[joeynach]

How about he made a waiver claim to block the twins or tigers, who we were fighting with at the time, from obtaining him.

[EvilJester99]

Also he made a claim to get his team a real CF

[scotty22hotty]

The Twins/Tigers were in no position to take on $60M.

 

If Rios was a FA in this market, I bet he'd get at least 60/5 simply because hes entering his prime.

 

The Mets offered Bay 65/4... I'd take Rios any day over Bay.

Edited December 21, 2009 by scotty22hotty

[SouthsideDon48]

I guess the main point I would like taken from my post is that Rios' strengths are:

 

#1 A good defensive CF with pop.

#2 A great defensive RF.

 

So either pair him with with two mashers in the corners, or a good defensive CF, not a speedy coner outfielder.

 

It seems like Kenny Williams in wasting Rios' strengths and that could not have been the plan.

 

3. can hit lots of doubles.

4. can steal bases.

5. not only can he steal bases, but he can also get about 20 home runs along with at least 20 stolen bases and be in the 20/20 club with guys like Granderson and Sizemore.

6. should be a solid batter in the #2, 6, or 7 spots in the order.

 

 

Also, now that we got Pierre, it's gonna be awesome watching Pierre steal bases, then have Rios on base a few batters later threatening to do the same. Having 2 guys like that is better than having just Pods.

[Ranger]

And I said then...if that was true, then KW ought to have lost his job, because everyone here knew that it was highly likely the Jays would just let him walk, and a message board shouldn't know more about MLB than a GM.

 

 

I don't believe the White Sox, based on Williams repeated comments regarding the budget, are the type of team that makes claims on struggling players with long-term deals. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Williams has reportedly liked Rios for awhile, and they had Dotel, Thome and Dye coming off the books after the season. They had the room to add payroll in light of who was coming off of it, and along with Peavy, Williams simply acuqired two players that he coveted during the season.

 

Preventing Rios from going to another team is a byproduct of this particular claim. They claimed him because they wanted him and they realized that if he does anything like what he's capable of doing, he'll be a nice addition.

 

 

I'm not ready to call it a failure either, but there is a strong chance that his contract hurts us over the next several years. It has obviously already hurt us for this year and getting a DH.

 

I understand he's a bit of a risk, but it's not as if he's making $130 million. The White Sox have a pretty good player for 5 years (6 if they like) and it's costing them $60 million. That's really not all that much for a CF and by 2014, it won't be all that much.

[bighurt574]

#3 (The terrible reason) When the news of Rios’ being claimed by the White Sox first leaked, Scott Podsednik was smack dab in the midst of picking up a clutch hit every time he walked into the batter’s box. I wondered if Kenny found himself in a situation where he felt he wouldn’t have any choice but to resign Pods this offseason, and realized that he would need to find a CF that had some pop to make up for starting a horrible defensive corner outfielder, that slapped at the ball like a grandma in a wiffle ball game.

 

Well if this was the plan, it sure seems to have backfired; because Williams is going to upset the average fan by not bringing back their favorite grinder; and in turn Kenny has replaced Podsednik with a faster, healthier, and slightly better anti-grinder in Juan Pierre.

 

Juan Pierre is definitely an upgrade both offensively and defensively in left field, but his acquisition certainly does not help shed any light on why Alex Rios and his sixty million came to US Cellular Field.

 

(1) Seems to be a bit of a stretch for the supposed "plan." Of course Kenny had a choice whether to resign Pods, and he elected not to.

 

(2) If you're right, and Pierre is "an upgrade both offensively and defensively in left field" over Pods, how is that a backfire?

[striker]

because Williams is going to upset the average fan by not bringing back their favorite grinder

 

I'm not sure if you have to worry about the average fans backlash if Pods doesn't come back. If this message board is the average fan than I think alot of people didn't want him back in the first place. The average fan was happy to see him go.

 

Those fans that are upset that Pods isn't returning, won't even remember Pods after the season actually starts.

[nickofypres]

I think he was just thinking on the upside. Everyone (non-Sox fans) seems to think Rios is over the hill because he had a bad 2009. I think Rios bounches back to career norms, plus USCF couldn't hurt.

[Rowand44]

I'm not sure if you have to worry about the average fans backlash if Pods doesn't come back. If this message board is the average fan than I think alot of people didn't want him back in the first place. The average fan was happy to see him go.

 

Those fans that are upset that Pods isn't returning, won't even remember Pods after the season actually starts.

The average poster around here though isn't the average fan.

[Seanh]

I'm thinking we added Rios because 1. He's an extra base machine. As bad as Rios was in 09', only Paulie had more extra base hits than him. 2. Plus defense in Center, or Exceptional defense in Right 3. Brings a speed element to the lineup.

 

[Thad Bosley]

Despite Rios' abysmal showing during his time with the Sox last season, I am still at least ten times more confident that he'll be an overall better-than-average performer at his position than, say, Mark Teahen will at his. He's the guy with the history of being a below-average performer in every aspect of the game, and the guy I feel we should be more concerned about. I know a good portion of this discussion revolves around the size of contracts and all, but from a purely performance standpoint. third base concerns me far more at this point in time than does center field.

[rowand's rowdies]

"If Rios was a FA in this market, I bet he'd get at least 60/5 simply because hes entering his prime.

 

The Mets offered Bay 65/4... I'd take Rios any day over Bay." -scotty 2 hotty

 

Great point about the FA market, although I would rather have Bay than Rios.

 

I don't think Rios gets 60/5 right now, no way, but he might get a 3/30, so really we are not overpaying by too much.

 

He will be fine, at one point San Fran was close to trading Linsecum for Rios straight up, so there is tremendous value when, not if, he rebounds. He's 29 and going into his prime, he will bounce back to be at least a top 10 CF in baseball immediately.

[elrockinMT]

And I said then...if that was true, then KW ought to have lost his job, because everyone here knew that it was highly likely the Jays would just let him walk, and a message board shouldn't know more about MLB than a GM.

 

 

I agree with this statement. I really don't think the trade is a mystery by any means. KW has long wanted Rios for some reason and we go through this same scenario on occassion. The mystery is why KW gets so stuck on someone and can't shake it until he finally acquires the player years later. Rios' contract is exorbitant, but w can always hope he gets it turned around here in Chitown and performs like they say he is capable

[greg775]

The bottom line is with that salary, Rios better hit and hit well next year or he'll be the whipping boy who is booed out of town.

He looked pathetic at the plate last year, simply horrendous in his stint with the Sox. He was here in plenty of time to provide a spark that might help us get into the playoffs but he was almost an automatic out.

That was last year.

It seems to me most fans are giving him a clean slate. But now it's up to him. He makes a ton of money and better figure it out. We could have kept BA if all we wanted was defense out there.

He hit a little better the last week or so so people are hoping he'll be better.

 

[Chi Town Sox]

I bet kenny looked at this WAR and couldn't resist

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...amp;position=OF

5.6 in '08, 4.8 in '07?

Hes comparable to Ichiro

 

What is it good for

[southsider2k5]

Everybody in the media knew that the Jays were desperate to dump salary and that Rios' contract was well above market value. I don't think that Kenny is dumb enough to have believed that Ricciardi would've had any incentive to work out a trade for Rios, as he has zero leverage once he claims a player off of waivers.

 

Thank you. It was obvious outside of any GMs office what was happening to the Jays, and it was obvious to Kenny and Rick as well.

[dmbjeff]

2009 was by far and away Rios' worst season of his career. He reminds me of PK, who one of out of every 5 years, has a real bad season. Look for Rios to get back to a .825-.850 OPS. He is still very young and has a boatload of talent.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

I expect Rios to hit around .275 with an OBP around .330 along with about 15 HRs and 20 SBs. Add that to his above average defense in CF and he'll give the Sox the best performance from CF that they've had in quite a while.

[WCSox]

3. can hit lots of doubles.

4. can steal bases.

5. not only can he steal bases, but he can also get about 20 home runs along with at least 20 stolen bases and be in the 20/20 club with guys like Granderson and Sizemore.

6. should be a solid batter in the #2, 6, or 7 spots in the order.

 

Rios' '06-'08 seasons resemble a late '80s Barry Bonds with better defense. That's a really solid player.

 

[GREEDY]

I didn't want to bring in other names to clutter up my original post, but since most of you didn't get it anyways I will try it this way.

 

I like Alex Rios, I would have claimed Alex Rios.

 

I would not have paired him with Juan Pierre.

 

To get the most value out of Rios he needs to play CF, and you need power hitters in both LF and RF.

 

For far less risk, and far less money KW could have Crisp in CF and Matsui in LF, and get rougnly the same offensive production (and most likely better defense, with little to no committment).

 

This sums up my "first reason" for signing Alex Rios.

[southsider2k5]

2009 was by far and away Rios' worst season of his career. He reminds me of PK, who one of out of every 5 years, has a real bad season. Look for Rios to get back to a .825-.850 OPS. He is still very young and has a boatload of talent.

 

Interesting comparison.

[bmags]

I didn't want to bring in other names to clutter up my original post, but since most of you didn't get it anyways I will try it this way.

 

I like Alex Rios, I would have claimed Alex Rios.

 

I would not have paired him with Juan Pierre.

 

To get the most value out of Rios he needs to play CF, and you need power hitters in both LF and RF.

 

For far less risk, and far less money KW could have Crisp in CF and Matsui in LF, and get rougnly the same offensive production (and most likely better defense, with little to no committment).

 

This sums up my "first reason" for signing Alex Rios.

 

I understand you, greed, what you are saying is the benefit of a player like rios (and now beckham) is they give you power production out of a position that is usually void (CF, 2B), but by putting players like pierre in a traditional power position, or high offensive, position like LF, you negate the positives of having found above average production in CF.

 

I understand that, on the other hand, the argument could be made that because you are getting above average production in CF and 2b, you can put less offensively-talented players - which means cheaper - in those positions.

 

I don't like Pierre, and yeah, i agree that we are wasting an opportunity to have a great outfield since, really, the hardest piece was found, on the other hand I'm not sure I totally agree that you wash out the reason for getting an offensive CF if you don't find a powerhouse LF and RF. That seems unreasonable unless you are NY/BOS.

 

That said, I really wish we would've taken a flyer on Kearns.

[Ranger]

Despite Rios' abysmal showing during his time with the Sox last season, I am still at least ten times more confident that he'll be an overall better-than-average performer at his position than, say, Mark Teahen will at his. He's the guy with the history of being a below-average performer in every aspect of the game, and the guy I feel we should be more concerned about. I know a good portion of this discussion revolves around the size of contracts and all, but from a purely performance standpoint. third base concerns me far more at this point in time than does center field.

 

 

I think people are for more concerned with Teahen than they should be. I'll be surprised if he doesn't have a decent season. I'll wear it if he doesn't, but I think him having the knowledge that he is the guy at third base and the position is his, will benefit him. And I think his tools are better than people realize. You have to forget that he played in Kansas City, which for a lot of people, means a player isn't, or can't be, very good.