ChiSox_Sonix Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 11:56 AM) So, the Yankees get another great player for absolutely nothing again. Now, this is competitive balance. Javy is far from great and Melky is not a nothing player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 11:28 AM) Javy is far from great and Melky is not a nothing player. It was pretty much a contract swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 12:22 PM) His overall numbers in September/October on winning AL teams 2004 w/Yankees 6 GS, 1-2, 34.1 IP, 6.29 ERA, 37 H, 24 ER, 29 K, 16 BB 2006 w/White Sox 6 GS, 0-4, 40 IP, 4.28 ERA, 33 H, 19 ER, 57 K, 10 BB 2008 w/White Sox 6 GS, 2-4, 31.2 IP, 6.25 ERA, 31 H, 22 ER, 30 K, 13 BB Total: 18 GS, 3-10, 107 IP, 5.47 ERA, 101 H, 116 K, 39 BB, 1.31 WHIP You were saying? lol. I would have to say this wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 Maybe being the #4 starter behind three other guys making big money will help him out?? Then again, New York is much further away from Puerto Rico than Atlanta, and that seems to be the thing he cares about the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 11:53 AM) Maybe being the #4 starter behind three other guys making big money will help him out?? Then again, New York is much further away from Puerto Rico than Atlanta, and that seems to be the thing he cares about the most. lol He was the 5th starter here in 06 and the 4th starter in 08. I don't know man, it hasn't helped in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I wouldnt be surprised to see Javy do real good in New York this time around. He had a fantastic season last year, and perhaps that gave him a much need confidence boost. He's got something to prove, and we'll have to wait and see how that turns out. Overall, for what they gave up, this is a good deal for the Yankees. If they could get a .500 record and an ERA below 4.5, that aint terrible out of your no. 4 or 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunk23 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) Robbery. The Yankees gave up nothing but spare parts. The Braves already have McLouth, Schafer, Diaz, and Heyward (soon), who are all better than Melky, who is about as average as they come. Javy was one of the top pitchers in the NL last year. QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 06:22 PM) His overall numbers in September/October on winning AL teams 2004 w/Yankees 6 GS, 1-2, 34.1 IP, 6.29 ERA, 37 H, 24 ER, 29 K, 16 BB 2006 w/White Sox 6 GS, 0-4, 40 IP, 4.28 ERA, 33 H, 19 ER, 57 K, 10 BB 2008 w/White Sox 6 GS, 2-4, 31.2 IP, 6.25 ERA, 31 H, 22 ER, 30 K, 13 BB Total: 18 GS, 3-10, 107 IP, 5.47 ERA, 101 H, 116 K, 39 BB, 1.31 WHIP You were saying? It's almost as if one of the leaders in IP starts to tire out towards the end of the season. Plus, his career FIP of 3.93 vs career ERA indicates that he's been the victim of some bad defense. Especially true when he had players like cement shoes Dye behind him. Edited December 22, 2009 by chunk23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (chunk23 @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 12:36 PM) Robbery. The Yankees gave up nothing but spare parts. The Braves already have McLouth, Schafer, Diaz, and Heyward (soon), who are all better than Melky, who is about as average as they come. Javy was one of the top pitchers in the NL last year. It's almost as if one of the leaders in IP starts to tire out towards the end of the season. Plus, his career FIP of 3.93 vs career ERA indicates that he's been the victim of some bad defense. Especially true when he had players like cement shoes Dye behind him. The Dye part I will agree with, but you also have to keep in mind that he had Crede behind him for two seasons, as well as Uribe at SS. During his tenure here, the left side of the IF was pretty good. The right side wasn't below average either. He did have Mackowiak and Dye in the OF in 06, as well as Pods. Being the neutral pitcher that he is, I think the good balances out the bad for the defense. Javy's usually bad during two parts of a season. The middle and the end. If he's bad during the middle of it, does that also mean that he's getting tired? Plus, whenever he's not on a contending team, Javy does just fine in September and October. In fact, his overall ERA in that month is like 3.71 overall while his 3 seasons on AL contenders ended up with him having a 5.47 ERA. Edited December 22, 2009 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 09:16 AM) Look at his numbers. Javy V is a great pitcher. He was great for the Sox too. Just becasue he pisses himself in big moments, doesn't make him less great, it makes him a s***ty big-game pitcher. He's going to be incredible as a 3-4 option for the Yankees. If you're a s***ty big-game pitcher, the Yankees are not the team for you. He would probably be a good #5 for the Yankees, mostly because he wouldn't start in the playoffs. His history down the stretch with competitive teams (including NYY) in the AL is not good, to say the least... QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 09:22 AM) His overall numbers in September/October on winning AL teams 2004 w/Yankees 6 GS, 1-2, 34.1 IP, 6.29 ERA, 37 H, 24 ER, 29 K, 16 BB 2006 w/White Sox 6 GS, 0-4, 40 IP, 4.28 ERA, 33 H, 19 ER, 57 K, 10 BB 2008 w/White Sox 6 GS, 2-4, 31.2 IP, 6.25 ERA, 31 H, 22 ER, 30 K, 13 BB Total: 18 GS, 3-10, 107 IP, 5.47 ERA, 101 H, 116 K, 39 BB, 1.31 WHIP That's a really nice K/BB and a solid WHIP, but he's almost a lock to soil his pants in one bad inning. Javy wins a lot of low-pressure regular-season games and would certainly benefit the Yankees in that regard (eating innings would also save the bullpen and put less pressure on Sabathia). That said, I can't see Girardi using him as anything more than long relief in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChWRoCk2 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 f*** the Yankees. Just won the World Series and they continue to buy and trade for players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 10:41 AM) Have they not learned? He's still the same damn pitcher. If you told me we could have Javy back, I wouldn't want him back. Stupid move. As our 5th starter, hell yes I'd want him back, just not at 10 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 12:14 PM) I wouldnt be surprised to see Javy do real good in New York this time around. He had a fantastic season last year, and perhaps that gave him a much need confidence boost. He's got something to prove, and we'll have to wait and see how that turns out. Overall, for what they gave up, this is a good deal for the Yankees. If they could get a .500 record and an ERA below 4.5, that aint terrible out of your no. 4 or 5. If he is trying to prove something, he will have an awful year. Putting pressure on himself is a horrible idea for Javy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (G&T @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 12:20 PM) I think your definition of "great" needs some tweaking. Javy has a career k rate of 8.1. Which seems to improve or stay stable as he gets older. His other peripherals are stable except for being slightly homer-prone. Which i'd take if a guy is going to strike me out 200 per year. Not to mention the guy averages 219 innings per year, which is good for about 34 starts. That's a damn good pitcher. I'd rather have Tyler Flowers, he had no place on the Sox, but he's a dominate K pitcher. You cannot overlook that .http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/vazquja01.shtml Edited December 22, 2009 by Thunderbolt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 02:53 PM) Javy has a career k rate of 8.1. Which seems to improve or stay stable as he gets older. His other peripherals are stable except for being slightly homer-prone. Which i'd take if a guy is going to strike me out 200 per year. Not to mention the guy averages 219 innings per year, which is good for about 34 starts. That's a damn good pitcher. I'd rather have Tyler Flowers, he had no place on the Sox, but he's a dominate K pitcher. You cannot overlook that .http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/vazquja01.shtml You called him a "great pitcher" but you also admit that he can't pitch in big situations. He's an innings eating enigma that fills out a rotation and has great peripherals. That doesn't make him great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Javy's going to love that short right field porch in NY. I could see him leading AL pitchers in giving up homeruns next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Javy has been worth 5 WAR for 2 of the last 3 years. He was pitching in a hitters park for two of those years. Hell, his entire career has consisted of 6 seasons of either 5 WAR or damn close to it (4.5), and he's only been pitching for 8 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 QUOTE (ChWRoCk2 @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 01:30 PM) f*** the Yankees. Just won the World Series and they continue to buy and trade for players. how dare they. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 One thing worth noting...right now, this leaves the Yankees OF looking dangerously thin. Swisher, Granderson, Gardner. There's an opening there if they wanted to re-up with Damon or to make a major move on Holliday/Bay. I'll bet the latter is quite likely; they're going to swoop in and grab one of those LF's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 12:04 PM) Javy has been worth 5 WAR for 2 of the last 3 years. He was pitching in a hitters park for two of those years. Hell, his entire career has consisted of 6 seasons of either 5 WAR or damn close to it (4.5), and he's only been pitching for 8 years. Yep, Javy wins a ton of games on Tuesday evenings in Oakland or Wednesday afternoons in Kansas City in May. And those games are worth as much as those on Fox/ESPN on Saturday afternoons in Boston and Sunday evenings in Yankee Stadium in September. But if you're in a tight division race or in the playoffs, Javy's value drops significantly. That's why it's strange that a team like the Yankees, who have about a 90% chance of making the playoffs, would sign somebody with a storied history of poor pitching in pressure situations. Edited December 22, 2009 by WCSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 its probably an entirely different debate for a different thread, but i think the key aspect of this entire discussion is actually whether or not you tend to believe the statistician viewpoint that timely, or "clutch" performers, if given enough opportunities, will end up with stats in those situations very near their career averages. It is something I tend to believe, and i tend to believe that javys bad outings have occured at inopportune times, and I don't tend to think that it has something to do with "confidence" or "lack of kahunas" or something of that sort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 05:16 PM) Look at his numbers. Javy V is a great pitcher. He was great for the Sox too. Just becasue he pisses himself in big moments, doesn't make him less great, it makes him a s***ty big-game pitcher. He's going to be incredible as a 3-4 option for the Yankees. I wouldn't call him "great" but he is avery good pitcher and a great pick up for the yankees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHizzle85 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 01:53 PM) Javy has a career k rate of 8.1. Which seems to improve or stay stable as he gets older. His other peripherals are stable except for being slightly homer-prone. Which i'd take if a guy is going to strike me out 200 per year. Not to mention the guy averages 219 innings per year, which is good for about 34 starts. That's a damn good pitcher. I'd rather have Tyler Flowers, he had no place on the Sox, but he's a dominate K pitcher. You cannot overlook that .http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/vazquja01.shtml So he gets a ton of k's. I'd also like my pitcher to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Meh, he'll be beneficial to them getting the best record by August, then the Yankees can either just sit him down in Sept and bullpen him in October, or pitch him till the end of the season as there is less pressure for them to win if they clinch the division that early. See it makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 01:39 PM) As our 5th starter, hell yes I'd want him back, just not at 10 million. Exactly, I wouldn't pay my 4th or 5th starters $11.5 million combined, let alone for one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (BearSox @ Dec 22, 2009 -> 12:14 PM) I wouldnt be surprised to see Javy do real good in New York this time around. He had a fantastic season last year, and perhaps that gave him a much need confidence boost. He's got something to prove, and we'll have to wait and see how that turns out. Overall, for what they gave up, this is a good deal for the Yankees. If they could get a .500 record and an ERA below 4.5, that aint terrible out of your no. 4 or 5. I think he just pitched a season in the NL, and thats that. He has been traded 5 times in 12 seasons, why is that? And good luck being a flyball pitcher in probably the biggest launching pad in baseball. Edited December 22, 2009 by RockRaines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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