Failed terrorist attack in Detroit

[Balta1701]

I'm also going to note that the TSA is currently leaderless, seemingly thanks in no small part to, guess what, the U.S. Senate. Both sides given here; the response of Sen. Demint's office in italics.

As Republicans seek to put the blame for the widespread perception of ineptness at the Transportation Security Administration on the Obama administration, Democrats are arguing that Republican legislators bear part of the blame and that they're politically vulnerable on the subject.

 

Perhaps the largest impediment to change at the agency: South Carolina Republican Sen. Jim DeMint has a hold on the appointment of a TSA chief, over his concern that the new administration could allow security screeners to unionize.

 

Republicans have cast votes against the key TSA funding measure that the 2010 appropriations bill for the Department of Homeland Security contained, which included funding for the TSA, including for explosives detection systems and other aviation security measures. In the June 24 vote in the House, leading Republicans including John Boehner, Pete Hoekstra, Mike Pence and Paul Ryan voted against the bill, amid a procedural dispute over the appropriations process, a Democrat points out. A full 108 Republicans voted against the conference version, including Boehner, Hoekstra, Pence, Michelle Bachmann, Marsha Blackburn, Darrell Issa and Joe Wilson.

 

The conference bill included more than $4 billion for "screening operations," including $1.1 billion in funding for explosives detection systems, with $778 million for buying and installing the systems.

 

UPDATE: DeMint spokesman Wesley Denton responds:

 

Democrats have only themselves to blame for not having a confirmed TSA administrator. President Obama waited 243 days in office before making a nomination and Harry Reid has been too busy trading earmarks for votes on health care to schedule debate on the nominee. This is an important debate because many Americans don't want someone running the TSA who stands ready to give union bosses the power to veto or delay future security measures at our airports.

The candidate to head the TSA was nominated in early Sept.

[Rex Kickass]

I'm going to say that by and large, I've been fairly impressed with the Obama administration's reaction to this event. It's been a low key, yet high visibility response.

[Rex Kickass]

Two of the four AQ members thought to be behind this attack were released from Guantanamo to Saudi Arabia in 2007 to participate in an "art therapy" program.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/men-believed...tory?id=9434065

 

[lostfan]

It depends on how you define Al Qaeda at this point. There are press reports that this guy claimed he was a member. There are press reports that the Ft. Hood shooter had email contact with a cleric in Yemen that you might have been able to call sort of linked to that. Neither one of them appear to have trained in camps, served in Afghanistan, or had any dealings/funding from any sort of central organization. If you define AQ as the remnants of the centralized organization that existed on 9/11, then no, these guys didn't have any dealings with it. If you define AQ as the looser network of anti-American groups that grew up after we failed to kill off AQ in Afghanistan and the remaining guys spread throughout the region, then we might be getting closer.

Dammit Balta I was basically going to type this, in response I'm going to go into the environmental thread and type an accurate paragraph on something having to do with volcanoes.

[lostfan]

LOL, that's as idiotic as blaming Obama for this. The guy was, from what I read, on the terrorist watch list, but somehow NOT on the no-fly list (f*** up), AND he got through screening with explosives (f*** up). The system worked... that's a laugh.

Those aren't necessarily the same thing. I know it looks bad to the public when it's worded/unfolds that way, but being watchlisted in and of itself doesn't automatically mean the government is doing a bunch of other things too and is restricting that person's access. Sometimes (a lot of times) they don't know they're watchlisted. There could be any number of reasons they're on the list and the information isn't always reliable. But there are times when it finds out Person X was doing Y and the cop ran his name in NCIC and guess what? He's on the terrorist watch list, oh no, how in the f*** did that happen? But we find out, there's no policies that say "this person can't come within 400 feet of any government facility because they're under investigation for that time they had a suspected terrorist's phone number in their records."

[lostfan]

I just don't understand why everyone has to suffer for DHS' mistake. And honestly, not getting up for the last hour is ridiculous. How about being "escorted?" Or even better, I'll give my toddler in diapers to you for the last hour and YOU can keep him in his seat. I feel horrible for all the Flight Attendants out there having to deal with angry passengers. I can't imagine they would want that job much longer.

Remember when they used to ask "Did you pack these bags yourself" and "have they been in your possession the whole time?" That was really f***ing silly considering if I wanted to, say, bring a bomb on the plane, and I was answering these questions honestly, I'd answer "Yes" just like everybody else who is not trying to bring a bomb on the plane. "Yes, I put this bomb in my luggage. Yes, I don't want to lose the bomb, so it's been in my possession the whole time."

[NorthSideSox72]

I've used the puffer machines in airports before - I don't see them as a problem, from a user point of view. I agree with Rex that its a much more practical tool at this point than the magnetometer.

 

That said, explain this to me - if this thing can sniff out explosives, why the hell do I still have to take off my shoes, belt, and everything else? I would volunteer for the puffer machine line every time, if they let me stay dressed.

 

And lf, you make a good point about the lists - however, I do think that anyone on the watch list, trying to come into the country, even if not on the no-fly-list, should at least be given a serious "random" search.

 

[RockRaines]

How would you have reacted if this guy sat down next to you on a plane? No matter how crazy you are, there is going to be some nervousness in your body language and actions, did the person sitting in the same row notice anything? Would you tell someone?

[mr_genius]

did the person sitting in the same row notice anything? Would you tell someone?

 

Of course not. Even if I noticed he was lighting some explosives. But i'm totally non-racist and would rather go down in a fiery plane crash then be seen as anything else.

 

 

 

 

 

[lostfan]

Of course not. Even if I noticed he was lighting some explosives. But i'm totally non-racist and would rather go down in a fiery plane crash then be seen as anything else.

I really wish you guys could read some of the ridiculously dumb things people report to the FBI as "suspicious activity" sometimes... the thing is you can't really get mad at them and tell them to not report anything, they think they're doing the right thing.

[mr_genius]

I really wish you guys could read some of the ridiculously dumb things people report to the FBI as "suspicious activity" sometimes...

 

well, open up the files! I wish to read these reports.

[lostfan]

well, open up the files! I wish to read these reports.

lol. And then I get fired, totally awesome.

 

Put it this way, I'll give an example of what one would look like. Say you have a guy coming to work and he sees an Arab dude walking back and forth at his train station that he hasn't seen before. The Arab guy stops to look down the tracks and periodically stops to look at the various signs on the platform. Eventually the train comes, he steps in the doorway, looks around at the passengers, and boards the train.

 

So Mr. I'm Being a Good American calls the FBI and says "I saw a Middle Eastern Male conducting what looked like pre-operational surveillance." Um, no guy, he was pretty much going to work or otherwise going from Point A to Point B, checking the schedule to see when his train would arrive, and looking down the tracks to see if the train was coming. You're supposed to report UNUSUAL activity, being a brown stranger doesn't count.

 

Also people will report things like a person taking pictures at tourist attractions where other people take pictures. Those make me laugh.

[mr_genius]

I'll give an example of what one would look like. Say you have a guy coming to work and he sees an Arab dude walking back and forth at his train station that he hasn't seen before. The Arab guy stops to look down the tracks and periodically stops to look at the various signs on the platform. Eventually the train comes, he steps in the doorway, looks around at the passengers, and boards the train.

 

So Mr. I'm Being a Good American calls the FBI and says "I saw a Middle Eastern Male conducting what looked like pre-operational surveillance." Um, no guy, he was pretty much going to work or otherwise going from Point A to Point B, checking the schedule to see when his train would arrive, and looking down the tracks to see if the train was coming. You're supposed to report UNUSUAL activity, being a brown stranger doesn't count.

 

Also people will report things like a person taking pictures at tourist attractions where other people take pictures. Those make me laugh.

 

not gonna lie, those stories were... a big let down. was hoping more for stuff like that lady who called 911 because her husband refused to eat dinner.

Edited December 29, 2009 by mr_genius

[lostfan]

not gonna lie, those stories were... a big let down. was hoping more for stuff like that lady who called 911 because her husband refused to eat dinner.

Yeah there are those too but it's harder to make them up with specific details (I wouldn't re-tell exact reports unless they were in the open media or something). There was one guy who reported his ex-boyfriend because they had a bad breakup after the boyfriend left him for another dude, but he swore the stuff he was saying was true. lol. And plenty of pissed-off girlfriends trying to dime their boyfriends out.

[mr_genius]

Yeah there are those too but it's harder to make them up with specific details (I wouldn't re-tell exact reports unless they were in the open media or something). There was one guy who reported his ex-boyfriend because they had a bad breakup after the boyfriend left him for another dude, but he swore the stuff he was saying was true. lol. And plenty of pissed-off girlfriends trying to dime their boyfriends out.

 

haha

[Balta1701]

How would you have reacted if this guy sat down next to you on a plane? No matter how crazy you are, there is going to be some nervousness in your body language and actions, did the person sitting in the same row notice anything? Would you tell someone?

How many people get nervous on a plane during takeoff/landing anyway? My wife always does. Imagine if she weren't white...God help us all, that plane isn't going anywhere.

[Balta1701]

lol. And then I get fired, totally awesome.

 

Put it this way, I'll give an example of what one would look like. Say you have a guy coming to work and he sees an Arab dude walking back and forth at his train station that he hasn't seen before. The Arab guy stops to look down the tracks and periodically stops to look at the various signs on the platform. Eventually the train comes, he steps in the doorway, looks around at the passengers, and boards the train.

 

So Mr. I'm Being a Good American calls the FBI and says "I saw a Middle Eastern Male conducting what looked like pre-operational surveillance." Um, no guy, he was pretty much going to work or otherwise going from Point A to Point B, checking the schedule to see when his train would arrive, and looking down the tracks to see if the train was coming. You're supposed to report UNUSUAL activity, being a brown stranger doesn't count.

 

Also people will report things like a person taking pictures at tourist attractions where other people take pictures. Those make me laugh.

It sure seems like the right lesson to take from this is Obama hates America and personally strapped the bomb to the guy's balls that the hodgepodge of watch lists, no-fly lists that catch more Ted Kennedy's than terrorists, and random nuggets of information that the government has spent the last 8 years building up with no obvious plan for how to use it is officially now a weakness that can be exploited. Information overload.

[RockRaines]

How many people get nervous on a plane during takeoff/landing anyway? My wife always does. Imagine if she weren't white...God help us all, that plane isn't going anywhere.

I do, I sweat and fidget.

[Balta1701]

According to ABC, if the bomb had been prepared properly it would have been more than enough material to blow a hole in the side of the plane.

[Jenksismyhero]

lol. And then I get fired, totally awesome.

 

Put it this way, I'll give an example of what one would look like. Say you have a guy coming to work and he sees an Arab dude walking back and forth at his train station that he hasn't seen before. The Arab guy stops to look down the tracks and periodically stops to look at the various signs on the platform. Eventually the train comes, he steps in the doorway, looks around at the passengers, and boards the train.

 

So Mr. I'm Being a Good American calls the FBI and says "I saw a Middle Eastern Male conducting what looked like pre-operational surveillance." Um, no guy, he was pretty much going to work or otherwise going from Point A to Point B, checking the schedule to see when his train would arrive, and looking down the tracks to see if the train was coming. You're supposed to report UNUSUAL activity, being a brown stranger doesn't count.

 

Also people will report things like a person taking pictures at tourist attractions where other people take pictures. Those make me laugh.

 

I'd much rather have that than nothing at all. The fact is the terrorists don't do anything abnormal. You're never going to get a tip that says "there's a group of middle eastern men hiding bombs in their shirts heading towards an airport." Also, more than anything, those tips help put together what happened/how it happened after the fact.

 

 

[Cknolls]

Thank God this "alleged " bomber was only an "isolated incident" caught by a "system that worked." Just like the Ft. Hood terrorist. Another isolated incident. Pretty soon we have a pattern develop and the incidents are not so isolated.

[kapkomet]

Here's the bottom line, IMO.

 

To say that Obama is personally responsible makes about as much sense as saying Bush was personally responsible for 9/11. Obama is not responsible for this.

 

With that said, to want to make nice and want to "reach out" and be "friends" with these assholes is a mistake in policy. An appeasement policy doesn't, hasn't, and will never work, and Obama's policies are more closely to that side then where we were. While his administration's policies don't DIRECTLY correlate to these sorts of attacks, indirectly they do because you can't handle this as a "police matter" or "as it happens", you have to screw over these assholes and put them in their graves before they do any of us, no matter how ugly this may seem to the bleeding hearts.

[Rex Kickass]

Here's the bottom line, IMO.

 

To say that Obama is personally responsible makes about as much sense as saying Bush was personally responsible for 9/11. Obama is not responsible for this.

 

With that said, to want to make nice and want to "reach out" and be "friends" with these assholes is a mistake in policy. An appeasement policy doesn't, hasn't, and will never work, and Obama's policies are more closely to that side then where we were. While his administration's policies don't DIRECTLY correlate to these sorts of attacks, indirectly they do because you can't handle this as a "police matter" or "as it happens", you have to screw over these assholes and put them in their graves before they do any of us, no matter how ugly this may seem to the bleeding hearts.

 

Working with governments is not an appeasement policy when your enemy is a trans global non-government.

[kapkomet]

Working with governments is not an appeasement policy when your enemy is a trans global non-government.

 

 

Unless said governments align themselves with these nuts, and some do.

[Rex Kickass]

Unless said governments align themselves with these nuts, and some do.

But most don't. In Yemen, they don't. In Afghanistan, they don't. In Pakistan, they don't anymore. Nor in Saudi Arabia. I'm pretty sure there's no Al Qaida - North Korea connection.

 

You can make an argument that there may be some tie in between the current Iranian regime and Al-Qaeda, but that's even somewhat dubious. In fact, although our actions appear to be much more amenable towards Iran in the past year, our policy and actions have been anything but - but maybe the past eight years have made diplomatic pressure somewhat foreign to most Americans. Given we aren't going to be exercising a military option anytime soon... and nobody believed we were going to under the Bush administration either, using real diplomatic tactics, our only realistic option, may seem foreign to you after the last eight years.