Revisiting the Quentin Deal

[Rowand44]

I don't think it was a bad question to ponder, but in this message board you don't mess with TCQ. He has immunity for at least one more year.

We're not talking Carlos Quentin vs. Albert Pujols here, we're talking about the near 2008 MVP vs. a prospect who has proven absolutely nothing above AA so far. There's nothing to ponder about this one.

[League]

"This thread/poll is ridiculous." The way I see it, it means, this thread and poll are ridiculous, as is the poster who posted it.

 

My points as to why I'd prefer Carter:

 

- I'm not much of a Quentin believer. I wonder if he'll ever be fully healthy.

- K's aside, look at Carter's power numbers.

- Carter is cheaper and will be for a while.

- He fills some of our current needs.

- Not that it really matters much, but it'd definitely boost our system up right now.

Or maybe the notion of trading CQ for Chris Carter is ridiculous? That's what I would read that as, considering that's what it says.

 

-Okay. One freak injury from punching a bat and a foot problem makes a guy injury prone. Gosh darn CQ's rickety old bones.

-Once upon a time there was a boy named Carlos Quentin. He would grow up to hit 36 home runs, drive in 100 runs, post a .288/.394/.571/.965 line along with a .283 ISO along with a .414 wOBA in 130 games.

-Carter is in the minors and won't contribute to the line-up for awhile.

-What does this team need? Power? Let me tell you a story: "Once upon a time there was a boy named Carlos Quentin. He would grow up to hit 36 home runs, drive in 100 runs, post a .288/.394/.571/.965 line along with a .283 ISO along with a .414 wOBA in 130 games." Isn't that special?

-Did you know that there is also a major league system? It is generally considered more talented and exciting than the minor leagues, and Carlos Quentin is a MVP contender there.

[DaTank]

Or maybe the notion of trading CQ for Chris Carter is ridiculous? That's what I would read that as, considering that's what it says.

 

-Okay. One freak injury from punching a bat and a foot problem makes a guy injury prone. Gosh darn CQ's rickety old bones.

-Once upon a time there was a boy named Carlos Quentin. He would grow up to hit 36 home runs, drive in 100 runs, post a .288/.394/.571/.965 line along with a .283 ISO along with a .414 wOBA in 130 games.

-Carter is in the minors and won't contribute to the line-up for awhile.

-What does this team need? Power? Let me tell you a story: "Once upon a time there was a boy named Carlos Quentin. He would grow up to hit 36 home runs, drive in 100 runs, post a .288/.394/.571/.965 line along with a .283 ISO along with a .414 wOBA in 130 games." Isn't that special?

-Did you know that there is also a major league system? It is generally considered more talented and exciting than the minor leagues, and Carlos Quentin is a MVP contender there.

 

- Okay. Please tell me his "one freak injury" has nothing to do with his history of injury with the D-Backs and since coming over from them.

- Show me another good season from Quentin in the Majors then we'll talk. How many one year wonders have there been in baseball?

- Carter is in the high Minors and could contribute in 2010.

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'll stick with my original answer and say that it's because Carter was a year younger and two/possibly three levels lower.

 

Also, you think all of Quentin's injuries have been fluky and perhaps he's just not an injury prone guy?

 

Not sure yet. I think 2010 will definitely tell us if he's just been unlucky or is he legitimately injury prone. But CQ has raked at every level from college to the pros when healthy. I have no reason to believe he won't rake next year, outside of injury. Now if you're asking if I know for certain CQ is going to be injury prone from here on out, yeah, I'd definitely take Carter back. But that's the only way I take Carter back.

[elrockinMT]

People metion Quentin's injuries, but didn't complain when he was hitting 36 homers with 100 RBI's. He will be back to full strength in 2010 and folks will be happy again

Edited December 28, 2009 by elrockinMT

[DaTank]

People metion Quentin's injuries, but didn't complain when he was hitting 36 homers with 100 RBI's. He will be back to full strength in 2010 and folks will be happy again

 

So far it looks like I'm the only non-believer

[League]

- Okay. Please tell me his "one freak injury" has nothing to do with his history of injury with the D-Backs and since coming over from them.

- Show me another good season from Quentin in the Majors then we'll talk. How many one year wonders have there been in baseball

- Carter is in the high Minors and could contribute in 2010.

 

I can say very confidently that Carlos Quentin breaking his wrist by punching a bat has nothing to do with the shoulder problem he had in Arizona.

 

Show me one season from Carter in the majors. For a guy with one great season in the minors, I can show you a guy with an MVP season, an injury marred season in which he was still on pace for 30+ home runs, and three spectacular minor league seasons as well.

 

Quentin is in the major leagues and will contribute as the opening day right fielder in 2010.

Edited December 28, 2009 by League

[DaTank]

Show me one season from Carter in the majors. For a guy with one great season in the minors, I can show you a guy with an MVP season, an injury marred season in which he was still on pace for 30+ home runs, and three spectacular minor league seasons as well.

 

Quentin is in the major leagues and will contribute as the opening day right fielder in 2010.

 

Is your best argument that Carter's not in the Majors yet? Come on now...Carter may very well turn out to be more talented than Quentin in the long run. You use Quentin's numbers in the Minors as a key point. Look at Carter's numbers in the Minors and tell me you're not impressed.

[League]

Is your best argument that Carter's not in the Majors yet? Come on now...Carter may very well turn out to be more talented than Quentin in the long run. You use Quentin's numbers in the Minors as a key point. Look at Carter's numbers in the Minors and tell me you're not impressed.

My best argument is that Carlos Quentin is, in fact, Carlos Quentin. The things he have accomplished in the major leagues are incredible.

 

Yep. Carter has impressive numbers; however, outside of slugging, Quentin was better at everything in his minor league career and has replicated them in the major leagues.

[SoxAce]

As League pointed out, Quentin was better in the minors .314/.429/.527/956 than Carter was .290/.383/.542/925 but they both hit much differently. (Q obviously more of an OBP guy.. Carter will probably have the higher slugging %) Q's value as an OF outweighs Carter's value as a 1B as well.

Edited December 28, 2009 by SoxAce

[DaTank]

My best argument is that Carlos Quentin is, in fact, Carlos Quentin. The things he have accomplished in the major leagues are incredible.

 

Yep. Carter has impressive numbers; however, outside of slugging, Quentin was better at everything in his minor league career and has replicated them in the major leagues.

 

Which Carter may do as well...We're not talking about a guy who just put up 5 above-average season for us. That would be a different argument altogether. Quentin has put up just one good year so far and Carter has immense potential with his bat (as does Quentin).

[League]

Which Carter may do as well...We're not talking about a guy who just put up 5 above-average season for us. That would be a different argument altogether. Quentin has put up just one good year so far and Carter has immense potential with his bat (as does Quentin).

I just don't understand at all why you would want to replace a guy who has proven his minor league numbers were a true indication of his major league talent and replicated them at the ML level, while playing acceptable defense in RF for a guy who has yet to hit in the majors or prove that he can play any defensive position adequately.

[DaTank]

I just don't understand at all why you would want to replace a guy who has proven his minor league numbers were a true indication of his major league talent and replicated them at the ML level, while playing acceptable defense in RF for a guy who has yet to hit in the majors or prove that he can play any defensive position adequately.

 

Because I fear injuries will eat up his career. I have yet to see anything that tells me Carter can't play 1st or a corner OF spot adequately yet.

[Sox72]

Because I fear injuries will eat up his career. I have yet to see anything that tells me Carter can't play 1st or a corner OF spot adequately yet.

 

I'll take Carter! Just because I don't want you to feel alone.

[League]

Because I fear injuries will eat up his career. I have yet to see anything that tells me Carter can't play 1st or a corner OF spot adequately yet.

The very article that you quoted said that he had defensive deficiencies.

[caulfield12]

I think KW and 95% of MLB GM's would get a kick out of this thread.

 

This isn't Doyle Alexander for Smoltz or Bagwell for Larry Andersen, Carter had legit power potential, so did Brandon Allen, but that didn't stop KW from parting with them. Heck, Chris Young had power AND speed potential at a premium position on the diamond.

 

As history has shown, 1B/DH types are a dime a dozen, I just started a thread about DH possibilities and there are roughly 25-30 names alreadly mentioned that, once again 95% of GM's would take as their DH option over Cris Carter heading into 2010 if they were trying to compete for a division title.

 

Once again, there's no patience in this market for development, you either swim (Beckham, eventually Crede and Rowan) or you sink (see Borchard, Joe and Fields, Josh and pretty much every pitching prospect over the last decade since Buehrle, unless you want to count Brandon McCarthy in 2005).

 

The odds of Carter being a Howard/Pujols type of player are 1-2% While the odds of CQ repeating as a Top 5 MVP candidate aren't looking great right now, they're still significantly higher than Carter being a once in a generation hitter, like Frank Thomas, Baines, Ventura or Beckham. Heck, I would take Ordonez/Lee numbers out of Quentin, I think everyone would "settle" for that after the highs and lows of the last two years.

Edited December 29, 2009 by caulfield12

[JPN366]

Like I said, it will take a few years to really evaluate the trade to see if Quentin will consistently produce year to year or not and if Carter will be productive in the majors or not. There's no need to be black an white about it.

[DaTank]

The very article that you quoted said that he had defensive deficiencies.

 

The very article I quoted also listed him as a 1B-OF type, not a 1B-DH type. Defensive questions doesn't mean he'll only be a DH for the most part of his career.

Edited December 29, 2009 by jenks45monster

[JPN366]

Oakland is a good place and a good team to give a guy like Carter a chance anyway. I think they're looking at him to replace Cust as their DH. If he provides big power for Oakland and Quentin provides big power and high OBP, then it's a wash because it's what each organization wants from the player they have.

Edited December 29, 2009 by JPN366

[League]

The very article I quoted also listed him as a 1B-OF type, not a 1B-DH type. Defensive questions doesn't mean he'll only be a DH for the most part of his career.

Veteran Scout's Take on Carter

 

He had a low (below 50) OFP (overall future potential) coming out of HS. A 50 OFP would predict an average everyday player in the ML's. He signed out of HS for $105,000 and was labeled by most scouts as lazy and more of a draft-n-follow type player. A 3b in HS, he signed because he got 6 figures and because his academic situation wasn't going to work with a D1 scholarship. That's why he went in 15th round.

 

Obviously he profiles as a 1b with the huge power potential but he may set new records for strikeouts that even Adam Dunn can't live up to. He is a dead red bat. He can handle the fastball and even some mistakes with other offerings but they have to be up. Sure he has a good hand pivot and a soft subtle approach but he shifts and lunges to the front side creating issue's with pitchers who know how to change speeds and locate.

 

He would be much more inviting as a player if he were a left handed bat so he didn't have to deal with all the RH sliders. He will have to show that he can hit the long ball consistently at the ML level and should be given an opportunity to do that. But if he doesn't put up the long ball then he will be trade bait and a journeyman until he either figures it out or runs out of chances with the remaining clubs who he hasn't played for yet.

 

A lot of people and scouts would label him as streaky...I'm not in that category as much as most. The reason being is that when he runs in to a few days of sub-par minor league pitching he does well and when he runs into potential major league pitching he doesn't. So sure he is streaky but its all based on who he is facing on the mound. That tells me he that he'd be better off if he were a left handed hitter.

[DaTank]

I know he'll be a first basemen. What I'm trying to articulate is that a 1B-OF type sounds more like someone who can actually stick somewhere defensively compared to someone described as a 1B-DH type. I wasn't trying to convey the point that I think he'll end up in the OF. 1B or DH is his future.

Edited December 29, 2009 by jenks45monster

[JPN366]

I never got a chance to watch him in person because he was traded before he got to B'ham, so unfortunately, I can't provide any first hand observations. I'd be curious what his gap hitting potential is, because that would make him less one dimensional and he would do well in a big park like in Oakland. But, I think Oakland would just be happy if he ended up being a cheaper, younger Jack Cust, which isn't all that far fetched.

Edited December 29, 2009 by JPN366

[lostfan]

- Show me another good season from Quentin in the Majors then we'll talk. How many one year wonders have there been in baseball?

No man, it just doesn't work that way. I love prospects as much as the next guy, but onegood season from Quentin in the majors, for the time being at least, is infinitely better than anything Carter has done, basically by default. UNTIL and UNLESS Carter does that, this will not and should not change.

[southsider2k5]

To me, this trade can be summed up like this... Chris Carter's ceiling is Carlos Quentin. Instead of waiting to see if he panned out, we have that here now, today. You make that trade every single time.

[Dick Allen]

"This thread/poll is ridiculous." The way I see it, it means, this thread and poll are ridiculous, as is the poster who posted it.

 

My points as to why I'd prefer Carter:

 

- I'm not much of a Quentin believer. I wonder if he'll ever be fully healthy.

- K's aside, look at Carter's power numbers.

- Carter is cheaper and will be for a while.

- He fills some of our current needs.

- Not that it really matters much, but it'd definitely boost our system up right now.

I'm confused here. You like Carter's A ball and AA ball power numbers better than you like Quentin who probably would have been MVP in 2008 with 40+ homers if he didn't suffer a fluke injury. Plus, filling needs, wouldn't a guy who has gotten it done in the major leagues fill them a lot better than a question mark? I could understand if you're basing a lot of this if it is your belief that Quentin won't be able to stay healthy, I think that is a legit concern. He hasn't been able to do it yet, but if he can put that behind him, I don't see how this trade will ever look like anything but a good one from a White Sox perspective.

Edited December 29, 2009 by Dick Allen