Revisiting the Quentin Deal

[witesoxfan]

- Okay. Please tell me his "one freak injury" has nothing to do with his history of injury with the D-Backs and since coming over from them.

 

Quentin does not have a history of injuries with the DBacks. He had a surgery to repair a partially torn labrum in his left shoulder (which does nothing to effect his throwing and only saps from his power when it's injured because he won't be able to follow through without being in pain) and that is it in regards to his injuries within the Diamondbacks system. He played 125 games in 2004, 136 games in 2005, 142 games in 2006, and 114 games in 2007 (the year of his surgery). That's 3 full seasons plus most of the 2007 season anyways. Since coming to Chicago, he's broken his wrist because he punched a bat or a locker or a wall or something (supposedly a bat, but who really knows?), and in 2009 he was injured because of plantar fasciitis. None of the injuries are related whatsoever.

 

- Carter is in the high Minors and could contribute in 2010.

COULD contribute does not mean WILL contribute. And CONTRIBUTE just means he plays in the majors and puts up numbers. He could contribute in the form of a .725 OPS. That doesn't mean he's GOOD.

[DaTank]

I'm confused here. You like Carter's A ball and AA ball power numbers better than you like Quentin who probably would have been MVP in 2008 with 40+ homers if he didn't suffer a fluke injury. Plus, filling needs, wouldn't a guy who has gotten it done in the major leagues fill them a lot better than a question mark? I could understand if you're basing a lot of this if it is your belief that Quentin won't be able to stay healthy, I think that is a legit concern. He hasn't been able to do it yet, but if he can put that behind him, I don't see how this trade will ever look like anything but a good one from a White Sox perspective.

 

I don't necessarily like Carter better as a player, I'm just concerned a ton with Quentin's injuries, as you've mentioned. And I agree, if Carlos can stay healthy and produce, that deal is an obvious win for the White Sox.

[lostfan]

I think the injury concerns with Carlos are legit but otherwise, there really is no comparison at all.

[DaTank]

Quentin does not have a history of injuries with the DBacks. He had a surgery to repair a partially torn labrum in his left shoulder (which does nothing to effect his throwing and only saps from his power when it's injured because he won't be able to follow through without being in pain) and that is it in regards to his injuries within the Diamondbacks system. He played 125 games in 2004, 136 games in 2005, 142 games in 2006, and 114 games in 2007 (the year of his surgery). That's 3 full seasons plus most of the 2007 season anyways. Since coming to Chicago, he's broken his wrist because he punched a bat or a locker or a wall or something (supposedly a bat, but who really knows?), and in 2009 he was injured because of plantar fasciitis. None of the injuries are related whatsoever.

 

 

COULD contribute does not mean WILL contribute. And CONTRIBUTE just means he plays in the majors and puts up numbers. He could contribute in the form of a .725 OPS. That doesn't mean he's GOOD.

 

He also had Tommy John on his right elbow after he was drafted. Sure, all of his injuries are unrelated, but that doesn't mean his body's not a magnet for injuries.

 

And I didn't say he'd contribute positively, so you're right on your points there. My post was meant to say that he'll see playing time in the Majors in 2010, that's it. Though he could contribute in a good way next year.

Edited December 29, 2009 by jenks45monster

[southsider2k5]

He also had Tommy John on his right elbow after he was drafted. Sure, all of his injuries are unrelated, but that doesn't mean his body's not a magnet for injuries.

 

And I didn't say he'd contribute positively, so you're right on your points there. My post was meant to say that he'll see playing time in the Majors in 2010, that's it. Though he could contribute in a good way next year.

 

These were also the biggest arguments that were made against signing and resigning Jermaine Dye. We got 164 homers over 5 years out of that one.

[Buehrlesque]

To me, this trade can be summed up like this... Chris Carter's ceiling is Carlos Quentin. Instead of waiting to see if he panned out, we have that here now, today. You make that trade every single time.

This is exactly how I see it too.

 

 

I don't like the line of thinking that a trade like this is always worth it because the prospect is still in the minors and the "Quentin" is in the majors. Here I agree with the conclusion, it's a "win", but that can be tricky logic. By this logic, wouldn't a Tyler Flowers for Nick Punto (or some utility bench player) trade be a "win" for the Sox because Punto's major league stats, (even though they're not great) are infinitely better than Flowers' zero major league line, and thus Punto contributed more to the big league club than some minor leaguer who was never on the team in the short run and may never pan out in the long run?

 

Obviously that is a ridiculous hyperbole, but the point is Carter's value was maximized by "cashing him in" for Quentin, so I would say the trade is a win for the Sox. But it doesn't always work out, look at the DLS, Gio and Sweeney for Swisher trade. Even if those three never played another inning in the majors, there's "opportunity cost" of trading them for Swisher when they could have been traded for a different player. So I wouldn't say its no big deal that Swisher sucked here. I'd say we wasted the value of those prospects at the time. A lot of people say that about Brandon Allen-for-Tony Pena too, right?

[Quin]

I can live with this deal, because of Quentins MVP-esque 2008, Carter still in the minors, and the fact that Viciedo could still fill the need if need be, and he's younger and K's far less.

[Balta1701]

Someone show Carlos this poll. Make him angry.

[chetkincaid]

Someone show Carlos this poll. Make him angry.

 

 

NO!!! We don't want him to go and punch another bat...

 

Besides... Carlos ain't got time to be reading this trivial stuff... he's too busy working on his swing in the bathroom.

Edited December 29, 2009 by Chet Kincaid

[League]

By this logic, wouldn't a Tyler Flowers for Nick Punto (or some utility bench player) trade be a "win" for the Sox because Punto's major league stats, (even though they're not great) are infinitely better than Flowers' zero major league line, and thus Punto contributed more to the big league club than some minor leaguer who was never on the team in the short run and may never pan out in the long run?

Not necessarily, I understand what you're saying, but generalizing any situation like that is the problem with that. Carlos Quentin provided an MVP type season, Carter has put up good numbers in two seasons and one with enormous power; however, every scouting report you read about the guy is pegging him as a AAAA type player.

 

Generalizing any trade like that would be a mistake, but when you've got a player whose had a season the magnitude of Quentin's 2008 and showed that he still had his power last season despite his injury, you don't trade that for a single prospect with as many questions as Carter.

Edited December 29, 2009 by League

[bighurt574]

Carter vs. Quentin is a good argument, IMO.

 

It's a good argument in a year if Quentin struggles with injuries again and Carter has a solid major-league debut. Until then, it's a pretty silly question. And as far as whether it was a good trade, it's not just about "right now and in the future." Without that trade, we're almost certainly not 2008 AL Central champs.

Edited December 29, 2009 by bighurt574

[MexSoxFan#1]

Q

[greg775]

Good question. Carlos has to remain healthy. Maybe his career will be like Dye's. Injury prone then finally hits a stretch of healthy years.

[witesoxfan]

It's a good argument in a year if Quentin struggles with injuries again and Carter has a solid major-league debut. Until then, it's a pretty silly question. And as far as whether it was a good trade, it's not just about "right now and in the future." Without that trade, we're almost certainly not 2008 AL Central champs.

 

You can take the worst "almost" out of that final sentence.

[mmmmmbeeer]

Am I hearing this right, there are people on this board that would be happy if tomorrow KW traded TCQ to Oakland straight up for Chris Carter?

[SockMe]

haha TCQ with 69 of 72 votes

[witesoxfan]

haha TCQ with 69 of 72 votes

 

he should have 75 of 72 votes

[MERPER]

TCQ No doubt... even if Carter pans out and Q can't stay healthy, the only argument would be hindsight is 20/20...

 

KW made the trade for the last 2 seasons as well as the future... he could not have known last season would unravel as it did... if the Sox had won the division, Thome is still around..

 

then, as was the case 2 years ago, thome is DH and Konerko is at 1st base and the earliest Carter becomes a white sox rookie is 2011...

 

If Carter were an outfielder or third baseman, maybe it's something to consider but as a 1B/DH this was a no brainer for where our organization was...

 

Brandon Allen was also very highly thought of at the time, and I fear that trade for Tony Pena may come back to bite us even more...

[southsider2k5]

Am I hearing this right, there are people on this board that would be happy if tomorrow KW traded TCQ to Oakland straight up for Chris Carter?

 

 

haha TCQ with 69 of 72 votes

 

3 to be exact.

[Hawkfan]

We're not talking Carlos Quentin vs. Albert Pujols here, we're talking about the near 2008 MVP vs. a prospect who has proven absolutely nothing above AA so far. There's nothing to ponder about this one.

 

I was trying to come from a what have you done for me lately type thing. Obviously during 2008 it was the best trade in the world. during 2010 could possibly be a different story. It won't be IMO, just being devil's advocate, didn't want anybody burnt at the stake

[SockMe]

I was trying to come from a what have you done for me lately type thing. Obviously during 2008 it was the best trade in the world. during 2010 could possibly be a different story. It won't be IMO, just being devil's advocate, didn't want anybody burnt at the stake

 

 

can't really answer this til Carter does something in the Big leagues

[SouthsideDon48]

I forgot whether I mentioned it somewhere on this forum, or just had a conversation with a friend about it, but I think Quentin is going to rebound in 2010.

 

Remember how Derek Lee broke his wrist and how he played poorly the year afterwards, but finally starting being the same old Derek Lee last season? I think the same will be in store for Quentin, I'm optimistic.

[Jordan4life_2007]

can't really answer this til Carter does something in the Big leagues

 

It doesn't matter what Carter does. If CQ never reaches his 2008 level and CC becomes a stud then it's all hindsight after that. You can't say in 2008 it was a steal then say (if CQ struggles and Carter produces) it was a bad trade in 2010. Doesn't work that way. Or at least it shouldn't work that way.