Phil Rogers bash session

[Princess Dye]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-0...0,809746.column

 

insinuates that Peavy in this article has to go a ways to justify what he's paid. As if the whole Cy Young thing never happened. And honestly it's not out of this world $ compared to what staff aces get now.

 

Meanwhile he contrasts this with Buehrle and Konerko having paid their dues to earn what they make. And Peavy hasnt. What? Konerko especially is overpaid at this point in his career. A very generic level of production from the 1B spot.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Princess Dye

[Princess Dye]

Phil Rogers is only beaten out by Rick Morrissey in the stupidity race, based on RM's stated refusal to deal Deng for Kobe 2 yrs ago.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Princess Dye

[Real]

Rogers being known as a baseball moron isn't anything new

 

In fact, after listening to The Score on a daily basis, those sentiments are largely reflected throughout Chicago

[striker]

I interpreted that as proving their worth to the White Sox, not proving their salaries (which they already did prior to receiving their contracts). This is something I think every player needs to do every year.

[elrockinMT]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-0...0,809746.column

 

insinuates that Peavy in this article has to go a ways to justify what he's paid. As if the whole Cy Young thing never happened. And honestly it's not out of this world $ compared to what staff aces get now.

 

Meanwhile he contrasts this with Buehrle and Konerko having paid their dues to earn what they make. And Peavy hasnt. What? Konerko especially is overpaid at this point in his career. A very generic level of production from the 1B spot.

 

 

Why are folks so anti--Sox veterans? Generic production from Konerko? I have to disagree. And Peavy does have to show us what he has and do it for a full year. I think he can, but we need to see it

Edited January 2, 2010 by elrockinMT

[Milkman delivers]

Why are folks so anti--Sox veterans? Generic production from Konerko? I have to disagree. And Peavy does have to show us what he has and do it for a full year. I think he can, but we need to see it

 

I'm not sure what you don't understand. Look at Konerko's production in the last three years. In comparison to other first basemen in baseball, those numbers seem rather mediocre or maybe worse.

[nitetrain8601]

Why are folks so anti--Sox veterans? Generic production from Konerko? I have to disagree. And Peavy does have to show us what he has and do it for a full year. I think he can, but we need to see it

 

It was slightly above average production from the 1B spot at best. I agree on the Peavy thing a little bit.

[Princess Dye]

At first base, we need to be aiming a lot higher than .350 OBP with 28 HR. The Royals would be thrilled w/ that but we shouldnt be.

 

It was a bounceback year for PK, yes. But for a supposedly contending team it's still not enough. To support that again this year (and getting it again from him is no given), we will need a spike in production from several spots.

 

 

EDIT: Actually let me correct myself. The Royals having Butler shows how easily replaceable a .350OBP/28HR guy is at first base.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Princess Dye

[wilmot825]

I believe he was the same one who ranked the best pitching staffs in baseball and had the Cubs like 6 and the White Sox 12....WHAT!??? This guy is retarded I think.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Some of you guys are wound up wayyy too tight. I was expecting an abomination of an article. Peavy is a proven ace. But he's going from a pitchers paradise to a hitters haven (and a superior league).

[Dick Allen]

All the guy wrote was that one of his New Year's wishes was that Peavy and Rios justify the White Sox big investment in them. I think we all have that wish.

[chisoxt]

Some of you guys are wound up wayyy too tight. I was expecting an abomination of an article. Peavy is a proven ace. But he's going from a pitchers paradise to a hitters haven (and a superior league).

I agree. Do fans only want to read about how great their team and ownership is?

 

And I still think that the Rios pickup was a terrible move given the money that we will spend on him and his alarming decline in productivity.

[Knackattack]

I agree. Do fans only want to read about how great their team and ownership is?

 

And I still think that the Rios pickup was a terrible move given the money that we will spend on him and his alarming decline in productivity.

Right. One down year has turned his career into a bust. Why would you do that, Kenny?

[elrockinMT]

I'm not sure what you don't understand. Look at Konerko's production in the last three years. In comparison to other first basemen in baseball, those numbers seem rather mediocre or maybe worse.

 

 

You can bend stas anyway you want. What I see far to often is simply an attitude of bashing our own players, undervaluing them and some vague sense that the grass must be greener at someone else's ball field. Stats don't tell the whole story

Edited January 3, 2010 by elrockinMT

[Kyyle23]

You can bend stas anyway you want. What I see far to often is simply an attitude of bashing our own players, undervaluing them and some vague sense that the grass must be greener at someone else's ball field. Stats don't tell the whole story

 

Im sorry elrockinMT, what we see with you is that you far overvalue our own players to the point of ignoring diminishing results and injuries. This street goes both ways man

[elrockinMT]

All the guy wrote was that one of his New Year's wishes was that Peavy and Rios justify the White Sox big investment in them. I think we all have that wish.

 

 

My point too

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Im sorry elrockinMT, what we see with you is that you far overvalue our own players to the point of ignoring diminishing results and injuries. This street goes both ways man

Some see the glass half empty and some half full. Might as well enjoy your favorite team and not lose sleep over it. You'll live longer . Being overly critical is no way to go through life as you'll have few friends and make those around you miserable.

Edited January 3, 2010 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Princess Dye]

Some see the glass half empty and some half full. Might as well enjoy your favorite team and not lose sleep over it. You'll live longer . Being overly critical is no way to go through life as you'll have few friends and make those around you miserable.

 

In general I agree with this.....but when tons and tons of fans fail to keep a critical eye, you start getting what has happened to the Cubs. The diehards are still there but there's this mass culture of people who just like their lovable cubbies coming back year in year out. They kept Grace and Dunston way past their viability just b/c they were popular.

 

What the fans support does have an impact on what the team does. Though I think Sox fans in general are smarter than that. And it's not like elrockinMT is supporting a totally finished guy in Konerko. PK is average at his position right now, no more no less.

Edited January 3, 2010 by Princess Dye

[Kyyle23]

Some see the glass half empty and some half full. Might as well enjoy your favorite team and not lose sleep over it. You'll live longer . Being overly critical is no way to go through life as you'll have few friends and make those around you miserable.

 

Being realistic does not equal being overcritical. Konerko had a decent season last year, nothing earth shattering, and nothing to hang your head about. However, as has been stated multiple times, when you put Konerkos numbers up against every other 1B in the majors, he is at the bottom in most categories. After the season I thought "Konerko had a good season" as well, but when Kalapse showed me the numbers, it wasnt even close. And he is paid like an upper tier 1B, which is also a big problem.

 

And my comment towards Elrockin wasnt necessarily only regarding Konerko.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

In general I agree with this.....but when tons and tons of fans fail to keep a critical eye, you start getting what has happened to the Cubs. The diehards are still there but there's this mass culture of people who just like their lovable cubbies coming back year in year out. They kept Grace and Dunston way past their viability just b/c they were popular.

 

What the fans support does have an impact on what the team does. Though I think Sox fans in general are smarter than that. And it's not like elrockinMT is supporting a totally finished guy in Konerko. PK is average at his position right now, no more no less.

I was thinking about the Cubs too. It's hard to imagine any teams ownership and high ranking officials saying we make money who cares about the product. Of course it's best to be realisitic as far as GM's go but my imput has no direct influence on the franchise winning or losing. You're saying fan influence en masse wholeheartedly supporting a team win or lose makes for a losing franchise. I thank my lucky stars the Cubs have sucked for so many years . The Sox would have been in Florida years ago had they not. There's a lot to be said both negative and positive for going to a ball game just to have a good time as there is for being a knowledgeable fan. In the end I don't think it's a good thing to see yourself as a better fan because you know more about them. That could easily be construed as arrogance. The paying customer , bottom line , is what any franchise needs to survive and thrive.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Being realistic does not equal being overcritical. Konerko had a decent season last year, nothing earth shattering, and nothing to hang your head about. However, as has been stated multiple times, when you put Konerkos numbers up against every other 1B in the majors, he is at the bottom in most categories. After the season I thought "Konerko had a good season" as well, but when Kalapse showed me the numbers, it wasnt even close. And he is paid like an upper tier 1B, which is also a big problem.

 

And my comment towards Elrockin wasnt necessarily only regarding Konerko.

So a more knowledgeable fan ruined your enjoyment of Konerko's season . Ignorance is bliss I suppose. It would make for a good debate weather it's better for the human soul to be ignorantly blissful or knowledgeably miserable.

[Kyyle23]

So a more knowledgeable fan ruined your enjoyment of Konerko's season . Ignorance is bliss I suppose. It would make for a good debate weather it's better for the human soul to be ignorantly blissful or knowledgeably miserable.

 

No, it didnt ruin the season, it put it in perspective. I never thought Konerko had an all star season, and I still knew that he was being overpaid, but it was confirmed to me that when you put his season in context with the rest of the leagues first basemen as opposed to in the context of the team he was playing on, his season was subpar.

 

Plus, it is possible to be somewhere in between miserable and blissful. Just because I saw that Konerkos season was merely mediocre it didnt make me want to cry into my pillow and throw a fit.

[scenario]

I'm not sure what you don't understand. Look at Konerko's production in the last three years. In comparison to other first basemen in baseball, those numbers seem rather mediocre or maybe worse.

 

The problem is comparing him to other first basemen... because 1Bs tend to be the best hitters on most MLB teams.

 

Instead, compare him to all hitters / position players.

 

I took a look to see where he would fit on most MLB rosters.

 

Bottom line is he'd still be one of the top 3 hitters (OPS-wise) in almost any MLB lineup.

Edited January 3, 2010 by scenario

[MattZakrowski]

Instead, compare him to all hitters / position players.

 

Why would you do that? If Konerko (and most other 1st basemen for that matter) could play anywhere else on the field, they most likely would. A 1st baseman is held to a higher offensive standard than other positions because of the high amount of players who can play it adequately.

[Quin]

Regarding Paulie, I think that if we acquire a lefty first basemen next year, Paulie could very well be our DH, and I really wouldn't mind that, especially since not taking the field could reduce his thumb issues and he could still rotate in to spell a 1B. This is why I want Gonzalez so badly, as not only would he solve the lefty power hole, but you could shift Paulie to DH and keep him healthy.

 

Regarding Rogers, that article wasn't as horrendous as I thought. Though normally, he sucks.

 

("Steroid Scandal" is not an MLB team, so why is it Number 9 in power rankings???)