Will KW make a move prior to Soxfest?

[dyuen]

I think Hudson, Viciedo, Torres and Mitchell will be traded for AGonz. The hold-up is likely that SD wants Flowers and Mitchell and we are offering Viciedo and Danks 2...KW will give in on Mitchell. PK is your DH as Kenny convinces JR to take on more payroll due to the sponsorship monies brought in by the Marketing dept (we keep hearing about "sponsorships" and "marketing dept" from KW so it must play a role in this plot). There is plenty of playing time for Guillen's boy Andruw Jones as he rotates around the OF giving guys days off. Kotsay will be the best PH in baseball and will spell AGonz/PK at 1B/DH.

 

Last I heard they wanted Flowers, Danks and Hudson.

[NorthSideSox72]

Last I heard they wanted Flowers, Danks and Hudson.

The only one in there I'd hesitate on, in this case, is Flowers. Hopefully they go back to SD with that package, but replace Flowers with, really, anything at all. Some combo of other players. Might not work, but its worth a shot.

 

[southsider2k5]

Last I heard they wanted Flowers, Danks and Hudson.

 

Which Danks? John or Jordan? If it is Jordan, the deal is done as far as I am concerned. If it is John, forget it.

[dyuen]

Which Danks? John or Jordan? If it is Jordan, the deal is done as far as I am concerned. If it is John, forget it.

jordan

[balfanman]

Which Danks? John or Jordan? If it is Jordan, the deal is done as far as I am concerned. If it is John, forget it.

 

I agree. If they want Flowers, Jordan Danks, and Hudson I do this deal in a heartbeat. Surely they must want more than that.

[southsider2k5]

jordan

 

It can't be that simple, unless the Sox really believe in Hudson.

[iamshack]

I wonder if that explains why they have yet to sign a DH...

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

LOL, I assume this was meant to be green?

 

One could argue that the moves he has made haven't been great. I personally think he's improved the team. But "damage"? You seriously think this is now a worse team than it was?

I think this offense on paper, at best, is a very slight improvement over last year's offense, and that's figuring in rebounds from Quentin and Rios against the losses of Dye's 1st half and Thome. The problem is, last year's offense was horrifically bad and Kenny needed to significantly upgrade that, not just marginally upgrade that. Because he didn't do that, and he chose to spend all his money on Mark Teahens and Juan Pierres and bench players instead of getting a real DH to bolster the middle of the order, he has done damage. Aside from the Putz signing, he has spent on luxuries rather than needs.

 

And good lord, I still can't believe we've got $15.25M committed in 2011 to Linebrink, Teahen, and Pierre. For a typically fiscally responsible team, that is absolutely pathetic in this climate, and Pierre and Teahen will combine to make up $9.75M of the $12M Paulie is going to free up after his contract expires. I see no reasonable evidence to assume Pierre is going to even be *as good* as his career numbers (which still aren't very good for a lead-off man) in a tougher league and in a smaller ballpark. I also see no reason to assume that putting Mark Teahen at 3B is going to suddenly turn him into an above-average player. I predict that 1 year from now we'll be sitting here wishing we could unload all 3 of these deals, but we won't be able to since comparable players will all be signing 1-year deals worth half of what these 3 guys are committed.

[NorthSideSox72]

I think this offense on paper, at best, is a very slight improvement over last year's offense, and that's figuring in rebounds from Quentin and Rios against the losses of Dye's 1st half and Thome. The problem is, last year's offense was horrifically bad and Kenny needed to significantly upgrade that, not just marginally upgrade that. Because he didn't do that, and he chose to spend all his money on Mark Teahens and Juan Pierres and bench players instead of getting a real DH to bolster the middle of the order, he has done damage. Aside from the Putz signing, he has spent on luxuries rather than needs.

 

And good lord, I still can't believe we've got $15.25M committed in 2011 to Linebrink, Teahen, and Pierre. For a typically fiscally responsible team, that is absolutely pathetic in this climate, and Pierre and Teahen will combine to make up $9.75M of the $12M Paulie is going to free up after his contract expires. I see no reasonable evidence to assume Pierre is going to even be *as good* as his career numbers (which still aren't very good for a lead-off man) in a tougher league and in a smaller ballpark. I also see no reason to assume that putting Mark Teahen at 3B is going to suddenly turn him into an above-average player. I predict that 1 year from now we'll be sitting here wishing we could unload all 3 of these deals, but we won't be able to since comparable players will all be signing 1-year deals worth half of what these 3 guys are committed.

Hm. I disagree with some of this, but I see where you are coming from on the committed money. However, I really don't think all three of those guys end up disappointing. Just seems unlikely to me. More likely, its a mixed bag.

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I wonder if that explains why they have yet to sign a DH...

I imagine if Adrian was going to be traded this winter SD would have done so by now, but at least that's something to hope like hell for. I guess it might make some sense for Hoyer to get situated first, and get a handle on his minor league staff, before looking to make such a big trade. Adrian's name should at least be out there in June though.

[dyuen]

It can't be that simple, unless the Sox really believe in Hudson.

 

1) they believe big time in hudson. top of the rotation starter.

2) you, me and the rest of us who want this trade are not in charge.

3) i can see an argument for not doing this trade. we don't know the budget or the long time future plans. giving up 3 guys who you intend to be above average starters for many years at cheap salaries is a high price to pay.

[Rowand44]

3) i can see an argument for not doing this trade. we don't know the budget or the long time future plans. giving up 3 guys who you intend to be above average starters for many years at cheap salaries is a high price to pay.

Definitely a high price to pay but a risk Kenny usually isn't afraid to take. That being said, off the top of my head, I can't really think of Kenny ever trading away a big time pitching prospect unless we were getting some big time pitching back in return.

 

EDIT: And after thinking for a whole about 5 seconds, I realize that bold part is a bunch of bulls***. I guess Kenny must really be high on Huddy.

[Balta1701]

Definitely a high price to pay but a risk Kenny usually isn't afraid to take. That being said, off the top of my head, I can't really think of Kenny ever trading away a big time pitching prospect unless we were getting some big time pitching back in return.

Only because Soriano wouldn't sign an extension in 2006.

[knightni]

I'd deal both Danks', Morel and/or PTBNL (Mitchell) for AGon.

 

Let Flowers play '10 in AAA and have Hudson be the #5 SP.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Hm. I disagree with some of this, but I see where you are coming from on the committed money. However, I really don't think all three of those guys end up disappointing. Just seems unlikely to me. More likely, its a mixed bag.

The problem is that I don't think Kenny shopped for all these bargains like the fans are giving him credit for.

 

Pedro Feliz signed for 1 year, $4.5M. Teahen gets about $2.75M from us this year plus another $4.75M in 2011 and $5.5M in 2012. I'd rather have Feliz if we wanted to move Beckham to 2B. If we wanted to keep Beckham at 3B, Polanco signed for $17.5M through 2012 including his buyout, and that was also seen as a bad contract by some, but at least Polanco is seriously clutch. After the Royals' payments, we're paying Teahen $12M over the same span. And even better yet, Hudson is still out there and could sign for a whole lot less guaranteed than Polanco did on a 1-year deal.

 

Then as far as Pierre goes, Winn is going to sign for less. Pods signed for a lot less. Gardner and Melky Cabrera were both still on the market making little. We didn't HAVE to give Juan Pierre all that money, but we did. Makes no sense to me at all. The defensive value his brings is hurt by his arm, and I just can't see him drawing walks at the rate he did in the NL last year, or getting as many hits as his NL career would suggest in a smaller park. I think we basically could have gotten better players for less money without committing to them for 2011 at all, and we probably could have worked in a team option for a cheap price too.

 

Meanwhile Matsui signed a 1-year deal for $6.5M and the Yankees got Nick Johnson for 1 year, $5.75M, both lefty DH's that we could very much use. We apparently weren't players on either since we had spent 4 dimes of our 50 cents on a bunch of marginal role players plus JJ Putz.

 

Kenny wasted his money. I hope I'm wrong, though.

Edited January 11, 2010 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[southsider2k5]

Definitely a high price to pay but a risk Kenny usually isn't afraid to take. That being said, off the top of my head, I can't really think of Kenny ever trading away a big time pitching prospect unless we were getting some big time pitching back in return.

 

EDIT: And after thinking for a whole about 5 seconds, I realize that bold part is a bunch of bulls***. I guess Kenny must really be high on Huddy.

 

And if Kenny feels a pitcher is for real, you can hardly argue with his track record on kids. It is amazing how the one's he has kept, versus the ones he dumped, have performed.

[southsider2k5]

1) they believe big time in hudson. top of the rotation starter.

2) you, me and the rest of us who want this trade are not in charge.

3) i can see an argument for not doing this trade. we don't know the budget or the long time future plans. giving up 3 guys who you intend to be above average starters for many years at cheap salaries is a high price to pay.

 

Yeah, at the end of the day, it doesn't sound like Kenny at all. He wants to win now. Obviously none of us know the inner workings, so who knows what all is factoring into that.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

If all it took for Gonzalez was Hudson, Flowers, and D2 then that should have been done on Day 1 of the offseason. I don't buy that though, at all. That's paying dimes on the dollar and Hoyer is going to want a make a splash with an Adrian deal.

[NorthSideSox72]

And if Kenny feels a pitcher is for real, you can hardly argue with his track record on kids. It is amazing how the one's he has kept, versus the ones he dumped, have performed.

 

If all it took for Gonzalez was Hudson, Flowers, and D2 then that should have been done on Day 1 of the offseason. I don't buy that though, at all. That's paying dimes on the dollar and Hoyer is going to want a make a splash with an Adrian deal.

 

I'm not so sure. I mean, Hudson and Flowers alone are a rarity - very high end catching and pitching talent, that would be cheap and effective (probably) for many years. And Danks added to the mix. I could see that being a very high price to pay for any one player. Win Now doesn't mean win at all costs to the future, that's the extreme end of things.

 

[SoxAce]

If all it took for Gonzalez was Hudson, Flowers, and D2 then that should have been done on Day 1 of the offseason. I don't buy that though, at all. That's paying dimes on the dollar and Hoyer is going to want a make a splash with an Adrian deal.

 

I do actually. And KW and the front office probably sees Hudson alot differently (and alot higher) than some of us. Though of course it could also mean they are still trying to hype him up. I definitely trust the source (docsox) in those categories. I would think there might be another piece or two possibly, but it isn't that unrealistic. More than likely though.. they might look into it next year or possibly at this years trade deadline.

 

And yes.. I'm a big Tyler Flowers fan and I hope he steps in and gets a ton of at bats this season to replace A.J. next season.

Edited January 11, 2010 by SoxAce

[Balta1701]

I'm not so sure. I mean, Hudson and Flowers alone are a rarity - very high end catching and pitching talent, that would be cheap and effective (probably) for many years. And Danks added to the mix. I could see that being a very high price to pay for any one player. Win Now doesn't mean win at all costs to the future, that's the extreme end of things.

Just because its a fair deal doesn't mean it's a deal the Padres should take at this point. At least until middle-of-this-season, they have every right to wait until they're blown away.

[striker]

Just because its a fair deal doesn't mean it's a deal the Padres should take at this point. At least until middle-of-this-season, they have every right to wait until they're blown away.

I think of it two ways from SD's perspective.

 

1) By turning one good player (gonzalez) into multiple good players (prospects) you decrease your teams risk. Right now if they don't trade Gonzalez and something happens to him then they lose out on a bunch of prospects.

 

2) I'm sure SD has some sort of long term plan and if their plan says they should compete in say 2011 then they look at their depth chart and see if they can compete with the talent they have including Gonzalez. If they can't compete then they should trade him, but they don't have to trade him until prior to the 2011 season since that's when they are looking to compete. By waiting, the prospects you were going to get (say Danks, Hudson, Torres and Flowers) are 1 year farther along and it's easier to measure if they will be successful or not. But that also means the competing GM might be less likely to trade them.

 

Either way, if I were Hoyer I would trade him. Mark it as the beginning of my era.

 

Now let me ask you this. You have all said what you would give up if you were KW for Gonzalez. Well if you were Hoyer, what would you ask for? I'd ask for Huson, Flowers, Viciedo and Mitchell. I might not get it but I'm in less of a hurry that the White Sox are to make a move. I'm not looking to compete until 2011.

[jphat007]

The problem is that I don't think Kenny shopped for all these bargains like the fans are giving him credit for.

 

Pedro Feliz signed for 1 year, $4.5M. Teahen gets about $2.75M from us this year plus another $4.75M in 2011 and $5.5M in 2012. I'd rather have Feliz if we wanted to move Beckham to 2B. If we wanted to keep Beckham at 3B, Polanco signed for $17.5M through 2012 including his buyout, and that was also seen as a bad contract by some, but at least Polanco is seriously clutch. After the Royals' payments, we're paying Teahen $12M over the same span. And even better yet, Hudson is still out there and could sign for a whole lot less guaranteed than Polanco did on a 1-year deal.

 

Then as far as Pierre goes, Winn is going to sign for less. Pods signed for a lot less. Gardner and Melky Cabrera were both still on the market making little. We didn't HAVE to give Juan Pierre all that money, but we did. Makes no sense to me at all. The defensive value his brings is hurt by his arm, and I just can't see him drawing walks at the rate he did in the NL last year, or getting as many hits as his NL career would suggest in a smaller park. I think we basically could have gotten better players for less money without committing to them for 2011 at all, and we probably could have worked in a team option for a cheap price too.

 

Meanwhile Matsui signed a 1-year deal for $6.5M and the Yankees got Nick Johnson for 1 year, $5.75M, both lefty DH's that we could very much use. We apparently weren't players on either since we had spent 4 dimes of our 50 cents on a bunch of marginal role players plus JJ Putz.

 

Kenny wasted his money. I hope I'm wrong, though.

 

You say all that really well. I hope this isn't an offseason that haunts us.

[southsider2k5]

You say all that really well. I hope this isn't an offseason that haunts us.

 

Yeah, all of those one year deals this off season are really going to kill this franchise...

[Jordan4life_2007]

Yeah, all of those one year deals this off season are really going to kill this franchise...

 

What happened to jphat? He's turned into a combination of fathom/tito. He was so optimistic before that Hawk had to tell him to dial it down.