McGwire Admits Steroid Use

[flavum]

If you don't want to recognize Gaylord Perry as a Hall of Famer, go right ahead. I'm almost in a agreement with you on that point. However, two wrongs don't make a right. And I don't look at the "Steroid Era" only in terms of the individuals that used them. It's a larger institutional problem. This is on MLB more than the users, but the users don't belong in the Hall, especially the ones that only made their mark by doing them.

[SoxAce]

It's an interesting debate on that. You have guys like Perry, Wilhelm, etc.. who have doctored up the ball, etc.. but put up the numbers, and guys like Rose, Shoeless Jackson who aren't in cause of gambling. The Hall of Fame does have it's flaws in those extents, not to mention the whole steriods era which of course really does help hitters performance. Even if Mark never took any substance to me, he is still not a hall of famer. His numbers besides his homeruns does not scream H.O.F. (then again.. alot of guys who I thought would never get in, have been getting in) whereas take away Bonds 2001-2007 numbers.. he is still a hall of famer and I would still vote for him.

[CrimsonWeltall]

If you don't want to recognize Gaylord Perry as a Hall of Famer, go right ahead. I'm almost in a agreement with you on that point. However, two wrongs don't make a right. And I don't look at the "Steroid Era" only in terms of the individuals that used them. It's a larger institutional problem. This is on MLB more than the users, but the users don't belong in the Hall, especially the ones that only made their mark by doing them.

 

Better get rid of all the amphetamine users in there too.

 

[tonyho7476]

How did cheaters of today make the HOF irrelevant when it has been accepting cheaters for years?

 

Who cheated first:

 

Gaylord Perry

 

Big Mac

 

Barry Bonds

 

Which of them is in the HOF?

 

The saddest chapter in baseball is the current chapter where people have evolved this "holier than thou" attitude, and forget that the Hall if filed with cheaters from all eras, and that baseball needed a few scapegoats to cover up the fact that everyone was cheating.

 

Either ban all cheaters, or ban no cheaters.

 

I never understand this comparison...Bonds and McGwire were committing crimes. Its different, no?

[Pants Rowland]

I think MM's admission of use over a decade is also him putting a nail in his own HOF chances. How can anyone look at his numbers, know that he was assisted for a good portion of his career, and still vote for him? I do not see it happening.

 

The witch hunt, scapegoating, etc. sucks, but what is a better alternative. There were games thrown all the time and rumors of other world series not on the level but it wasn't until they banned 8 players (including a couple that looked pretty innocent) that the problem diminished dramatically. Sometimes there needs to be a scapegoat to get everyone else in line. I hope they continue to improve testing and do their best to identify the hypocrites (Sosa, Palmiero, Clemens, Bonds, etc.).

[sircaffey]

I despise the HOF now, and really don't care much about it. Such a hypocritical association. Sadly, these players that are being scapegoated today are/were more talented than the vast majority of players in the HOF.

[Soxbadger]

However, two wrongs don't make a right.

 

Exactly.

 

It was wrong that MLB implicitly supported steroids.

 

It was wrong that MLB is not taking responsibility and instead blaming a few players making them scapegoats.

 

2 wrongs dont make a right, so we should absolve those players who only committed a wrong for "best of baseball". In my opinion that is the only just solution.

 

That or removing all cheaters from the Hall.

 

Since the latter will never happen, the former is the only fair and just answer.

[NorthSideSox72]

Using PED's - that is to say, breaking the law, and breaking the rules in a premeditated fashion, and putting their entire game at an improperly different level of competition...

 

...is not the same as things like spitballs and a little too much pine tar, that occurs on the field.

 

Making them the same is like making a $300M Ponzi scheme the same as a guy who stole a candy bar. They are clearly, obviously, not the same.

 

[Soxbadger]

I dont think breaking the law has anything to do with baseball, the HOF, or whether a player is HOF worthy.

 

breaking the rules in a premeditated fashion, and putting their entire game at an improperly different level of competition...

 

...is not the same as things like spitballs and a little too much pine tar, that occurs on the field.

 

How is a spitball not premeditated?

 

How does a spitball not put their "entire game at an improperly different level of competition"?

 

If anything a spitball is worse. You can scientifically see the difference between a doctored ball and a nondoctored ball.

 

Conversely there is no absolute correlation between steroids and being a better player. There could have been hundreds of players taking steroids who sucked for all we know.

[NorthSideSox72]

I dont think breaking the law has anything to do with baseball, the HOF, or whether a player is HOF worthy.

 

 

 

How is a spitball not premeditated?

 

How does a spitball not put their "entire game at an improperly different level of competition"?

 

If anything a spitball is worse. You can scientifically see the difference between a doctored ball and a nondoctored ball.

 

Conversely there is no absolute correlation between steroids and being a better player. There could have been hundreds of players taking steroids who sucked for all we know.

the baseball HOF is different than other sports in that it specifically has a character clause. And that is something I love about it. Clearly, people who break the law in order to achieve, are suspect in this area.

 

[GreatScott82]

I would have more respect for the guy if he came out like 3-5 years ago. It figures he would admit this now. Whatever, at least he FINALLY came clean and now he can focus on coaching hitters without dealing with the constant steriod questions. I wonder when Barry Bonds is going to come clean? Haha probably never.

[Soxbadger]

the baseball HOF is different than other sports in that it specifically has a character clause. And that is something I love about it. Clearly, people who break the law in order to achieve, are suspect in this area.

 

And what part of Big Mac's character is bad?

 

Was it that he helped baseball come back from the dead?

 

Was it that he took steroids with baseballs implicit okay?

 

Was it all the money he gave to charity?

 

Was it that he was the face of baseball in one of its darkest times?

 

Outside of the smear campaign after he left baseball, what character issues did Big Mac have?

 

Conversely, if "character" matters, then why is Ty Cobb in baseball?

 

He attacked a fan in the stands.

 

I guess "character" only matters when we are blackballing people.

 

[MHizzle85]

When I read this I didn't really care. In my eyes he already admitted guilt when he wouldn't talk about it to the grand jury. Will I be angered if he makes the HOF? Not really. Will I care if he doesn't? Nope.

[Leonard Zelig]

I dont think breaking the law has anything to do with baseball, the HOF, or whether a player is HOF worthy.

 

 

 

How is a spitball not premeditated?

 

How does a spitball not put their "entire game at an improperly different level of competition"?

 

If anything a spitball is worse. You can scientifically see the difference between a doctored ball and a nondoctored ball.

 

Conversely there is no absolute correlation between steroids and being a better player. There could have been hundreds of players taking steroids who sucked for all we know.

 

A difference is that an umpire could catch somebody doctoring a ball and warn or eject the player, you cannot catch somebody using PEDs during a game.

Edited January 11, 2010 by Leonard Zelig

[Leonard Zelig]

I also would think its only fair to remove all pitchers who admittedly used illegal pitches, any player who corked their bat or was caught cheating, etc.

 

If you want to remove cheaters, remove cheaters.

 

If you want to create scapegoats, well the HOF is doing a great job.

 

What bout a SS who doesn't really tag second base when he turns a double play? Or an OF who knows he trapped a fly ball but tries to play it off like he caught it? Or a batter who acts like he got hit by a close pitch? Are they cheaters?

[Soxbadger]

A difference is that an umpire could catch somebody doctoring a ball and warn or eject the player, you cannot catch somebody using PEDs during a game.

 

You mean MLB created rules to stop cheating?

 

MLB at any point during Big Macs career could have had Olympic style drug testing. They purposefully did not, because they at best were ambivalent to steroid use, at worst they were supportive.

 

Baseball didnt want to hurt Big Mac when he was making them millions, they just need to destroy him now so that A-Rod and other current players who cheated arent destroyed and unmarketable.

 

This is about money, not about cheating or the game.

[Soxbadger]

What bout a SS who doesn't really tag second base when he turns a double play? Or an OF who knows he trapped a fly ball but tries to play it off like he caught it? Or a batter who acts like he got hit by a close pitch? Are they cheaters?

 

Depends on how you define cheating.

 

To me, they are all bending the rules. Just like a spitball, just like steroids, just like HGH, just like stealing signs, just like using to much pine tar, just like wearing red contacts, etc etc.

 

Im consistent, I think that all of them should be in the HOF. I dont care if they cheated (unless it was cheating to lose, then that can not be tolerated.)

 

Cheating to win, while not encouraged, is allowable in my universe.

Edited January 11, 2010 by Soxbadger

[Steve9347]

80% of the league was on the juice... Big Mac just happened to be the best at the time in terms of power.

[Chisoxfn]

That's a pretty good apology, about what I'd hope for. Still no ticket to the Hall though, not in my eyes. Sorry Mark. I'm glad you are coming clean and moving on with your life, but your reward should not include enshrinement.

I'd let him in and I think it was a real good apology. One of the most honest we've seen, imo.

[whitesoxfan99]

LOL at Larussa "I didn't know anything". Yeah ok. You only coached McGwire and Canseco in Oakland when steroids became big in baseball and then coached McGwire again when he became a dominant force after several mediocre at best seasons.

[BigEdWalsh]

I'd let him in and I think it was a real good apology. One of the most honest we've seen, imo.

I absolutely would NOT let him in but I agree with you 100% otherwise. Now that I actually read what he said, I feel for the guy. He was honest (at last) and I feel for his pain. I genuinely feel sorry for him. But, I would never go so far as to say all is forgiven, now we can let you into the Hall.

[lostfan]

This is what somebody wrote on Facebook

 

Mark McGuire admitted taking steroids.... NEWSFLASH! WE KNEW THAT ALREADY MARK. You should've made something up like... "I was drinking breast milk from a rare and mystical 3 breasted Koala Bear named Roovio and I drank 6 cups per inning!" NOW THAT'S A GOOD STORY instead of coming out with some shid we already knew.

 

[Vote4Pedro]

he just admitted to using HGH as well on MLB Network's interview

[flavum]

I just watched the interview with Costas. He came off terrible.

 

He said he used it to stay on the field.

 

Doesn't think they helped him hit more homeruns. Blah blah blah.

 

He called Pat Maris today and she was not happy, and he doesn't blame her for being upset. But yet he didn't think steroids helped him. Why do you feel bad, Mark?

[greasywheels121]

I like you Brian Williams.

 

http://tv.gawker.com/5445825/brian-william...eroid-admission