Major earthquake strikes Haiti

[Balta1701]

This quake was 35 miles NNW of PAP, and was 6.1. Since it was like 60 miles from where the previous quakes were, is that really an aftershock? Seems like a different event.

 

In any case, they are saying they can't tell how much new damage there is from this one. That might be because there was so little left to damage. But what it might do, is cause further damage in areas further north, that weren't as badly hit by the first quakes. Its like its spreading out. Ugh.

The official definition of an aftershock is that it is an event within 2 rupture lengths of the original event that occurs before seismicity returns to background levels. Seismicity will be above background levels for years, probably a decade or two after that first event. Without knowing 100% the original rupture length, a brief check shows that this event was still, IMO, somewhat close to the original event, and occurred either on a very close fault or perhaps on the same fault. It almost certainly meets all the criteria for an aftershock.

[NorthSideSox72]

The official definition of an aftershock is that it is an event within 2 rupture lengths of the original event that occurs before seismicity returns to background levels. Seismicity will be above background levels for years, probably a decade or two after that first event. Without knowing 100% the original rupture length, a brief check shows that this event was still, IMO, somewhat close to the original event, and occurred either on a very close fault or perhaps on the same fault. It almost certainly meets all the criteria for an aftershock.

Interesting.

 

So... do earthquakes along one fault, cause quakes on other ones? Like moving a pebble on a beach releases pressure on ones around it, sort of a chain reaction?

 

[southsider2k5]

This quake was 35 miles NNW of PAP, and was 6.1. Since it was like 60 miles from where the previous quakes were, is that really an aftershock? Seems like a different event.

 

In any case, they are saying they can't tell how much new damage there is from this one. That might be because there was so little left to damage. But what it might do, is cause further damage in areas further north, that weren't as badly hit by the first quakes. Its like its spreading out. Ugh.

 

It is all considered the same event.

[iWiN4PreP]

Man, this is a real whack situation. My love goes out to Haiti, Peace be with them.

[Balta1701]

Interesting.

 

So... do earthquakes along one fault, cause quakes on other ones? Like moving a pebble on a beach releases pressure on ones around it, sort of a chain reaction?

Absolutely does happen. I'll cite the most beautiful example in the world momentarily, but here's the science; when an earthquake happens, an enormous amount of stress is released on the area of the fault that slips. But, not all of the fault slips. Imagine you're grinding 2 bricks past each other...if you're pushing hard enough, eventually they'll slip along the plane between them. Now, imagine a long line of bricks doing the same thing, but only let 1 pair of bricks slip at a single time. Once one pair goes, it's going to push on the next set to either side. The complicated way to put this is, the earthquake changes the stress field. You release stress in one place, but you build it up in another place. Aftershocks, esp. large aftershocks, can often be related to this phenomenon; suddenly a fault that was near failure finds itself having more stress on it, and its rocks give quite quickly and you get another event. This is also how you can have a smaller earthquake trigger a larger event.

 

The world's most beautiful example of this phenomenon is the Anatolian Fault, in northern Turkey, which last broke in the Ismet earthquake in 1999. This fault appears to rupture in beautiful, nearly perfect chains. A quake happens at one end (typically the eastern end) of Magnitude 7+, then there's another next to it, and it marches along the fault. We've watched it happen on this fault since the 30's.

 

 

If you take something scary from this picture, you'll probably note that if the chain keeps going, the next one hits Istanbul directly.

[Texsox]

And cruise ships are still docking in Haiti. Tourists having fun while the ship offloads relief supplies. Seems wrong on the surface, but the island does need cold hard cash and the tourism industry is very necessary to their economy.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/1...aiti-earthquake

 

Luxury liners are still docking at private beaches near Haiti's devastated earthquake zone for holidaymakers to enjoy the water

Latest: Cruise company to donate sun loungers to Haiti makeshift hospital

[caulfield12]

Lisbon, Portugal, is another city that's directly in the danger zone for a possible earthquake and has many buildings that aren't reinforced, at least 40% of the city would collapse.

 

Lisbon last had a huge earthquake about 260 years ago, the same time frame as the last huge Haiti earthquake. At the time, it was the worst to ever hit Europe.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

And cruise ships are still docking in Haiti. Tourists having fun while the ship offloads relief supplies. Seems wrong on the surface, but the island does need cold hard cash and the tourism industry is very necessary to their economy.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/1...aiti-earthquake

 

Absolutely disagree whole heartedly.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this and I don't understand why there are people making such a huge stink over it (not saying you are). Royal Caribbean is delivering supplies while making these stops too. Also, Labadee, where they dock, is a privately leased "island" by the company from the Haitian government. Royal Caribbean employs Haitian citizens on the resort and also grants several hundred other Haitian citizens exclusive privilege to sell goods to the tourists who disembark.

 

Furthermore, for the passengers of the ship, they often book these cruises years in advance and it is not fair to them to alter their trip that they are paying a thousand plus dollars for. This place is 60 miles from Port au Prince so it's not as if people would be getting off and gauking or getting in the way. hell, they passengers cant even leave the grounds of the private resort. Nothing but positives come from Royal Caribbean continuing to dock at Labadee.

 

I don't understand how anyone can think otherwise. Royal Caribbean altering their ports of call because of this does nothing but further hurt the country right now.

[Milkman delivers]

Absolutely disagree whole heartedly.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this and I don't understand why there are people making such a huge stink over it (not saying you are). Royal Caribbean is delivering supplies while making these stops too. Also, Labadee, where they dock, is a privately leased "island" by the company from the Haitian government. Royal Caribbean employs Haitian citizens on the resort and also grants several hundred other Haitian citizens exclusive privilege to sell goods to the tourists who disembark.

 

Furthermore, for the passengers of the ship, they often book these cruises years in advance and it is not fair to them to alter their trip that they are paying a thousand plus dollars for. This place is 60 miles from Port au Prince so it's not as if people would be getting off and gauking or getting in the way. hell, they passengers cant even leave the grounds of the private resort. Nothing but positives come from Royal Caribbean continuing to dock at Labadee.

 

I don't understand how anyone can think otherwise. Royal Caribbean altering their ports of call because of this does nothing but further hurt the country right now.

 

Somebody works for Royal Caribbean

 

Seriously though, I agree with you.

[lostfan]

I wrote that in my status the other day, a lot more abrasively of course as that's my MO on my Facebook statuses if you're my friend. lol. Anyway it's not like the tourists are stopping in Port-au-Prince and chillin in hotels that could be used for relief efforts and what not... Labadee is nowhere near where the quake struck, it's on a completely different part of the island. It's basically just a beach with a zipline, some roller-coaster thingy, and some souvenir shops where Haitians work. Bypassing that stop wouldn't really make any sense at all... as was mentioned before the passengers have probably had their trip planned for years, and the ships are still on a schedule, there's really nowhere else for them to go. Not stopping can only hurt, not help.

[caulfield12]

Well, then imagine the same ship was parking at a private coast off the coast of Louisiana/New Orleans in the weeks after Hurricane Katrina...

 

Would you still feel the same way? Let's say some of the passengers on board actually knew of relatives who were killed and/or homeless there (imagining it's an around-the-world trip and they had started on it weeks or days before Katrina hit)...that wouldn't change things either?

 

The economic argument is one part of it, sure. However, the impact is little more than a very, very tiny drop in the bucket in the overall scheme of things. Reading the statement from the cruise lines, it seemed very much like a rationalization for doing something that was already being construed by many onboard to be in poor or bad taste.

 

If you say it doesn't matter what country it happened in, are you really being honest? Would you really consider it to be okay to dock offshore of any American state and consider the "boost to the local economy" good enough reason not to be upset while there were fellow American people dying in the hundreds of thousands less than 60 miles away?

[Texsox]

It was not as clear cut to me. I was thinking about a tourist ship docking in Florida or LA after a devastating hurricane and it did seem a little distasteful. I know after Hurricane Dolly that one of the reasons I shut down the Scout Camp was it seemed wrong to have people having a good time while others are devastated. But as others have noted, the island does need currency and we couldn't expect the cruise line to just make a donation. They should receive something in return, especially if that is how their relationship has been constructed. They built a private resort for their guests because they wanted to make an economic impact on this island. It works for both parties, why should the other, untouched, areas suffer?

[southsider2k5]

Well, then imagine the same ship was parking at a private coast off the coast of Louisiana/New Orleans in the weeks after Hurricane Katrina...

 

Would you still feel the same way? Let's say some of the passengers on board actually knew of relatives who were killed and/or homeless there (imagining it's an around-the-world trip and they had started on it weeks or days before Katrina hit)...that wouldn't change things either?

 

The economic argument is one part of it, sure. However, the impact is little more than a very, very tiny drop in the bucket in the overall scheme of things. Reading the statement from the cruise lines, it seemed very much like a rationalization for doing something that was already being construed by many onboard to be in poor or bad taste.

 

If you say it doesn't matter what country it happened in, are you really being honest? Would you really consider it to be okay to dock offshore of any American state and consider the "boost to the local economy" good enough reason not to be upset while there were fellow American people dying in the hundreds of thousands less than 60 miles away?

 

The first big difference would be that the US actually can, and did, respond to that crisis.

[caulfield12]

 

 

You're joking, right?

 

Yeah, Brownie did a great job with that one...MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

[bmags]

Why can't we airdrop MREs and water like we did so many times? Would it cause riots? Are we doing this? I don't understand why the bottlenecking has to destroy all of this.

[southsider2k5]

You're joking, right?

 

Yeah, Brownie did a great job with that one...MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

 

And what exactly has the Haitian government been able to do when compared to what the US government did?

[Balta1701]

And what exactly has the Haitian government been able to do when compared to what the US government did?

I'd like to make a joke but I still don't think it's appropriate.

[NorthSideSox72]

Why can't we airdrop MREs and water like we did so many times? Would it cause riots? Are we doing this? I don't understand why the bottlenecking has to destroy all of this.

Air dropping in an urban area doesn't work well. They'd have to find clear area somewhere outside town, off some lousy road, and you're in the same place again.

 

Also, MRE's actually require that people in PAP know how to use them - its not obvious, believe it or not, and the instructions may not be in Creole.

 

Then there's the problem where, if you don't control the supply of that food, then the gangs will.

 

[caulfield12]

And what exactly has the Haitian government been able to do when compared to what the US government did?

 

Either of the Long skeletons unearthed from their graves or even David Duke could have done a much better job.

 

When you combine the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere with a totally incapacitated/decapitated UN mission...the Louis Armstrong Airport with what the Haitians have to work with, the sunken port/cranes and an obliterated National Palace with many government officers/police/firefighters/doctors dead or missing, there's really no basis possible to make any "governmental" comparisons between the US and Haiti.

 

Not to mention 150-250,000 corpses that have to be buried quickly...the final totals will be greater than the Tsunami.

 

The poorest 10% of Americans have a comparable life of luxury when juxtaposed with the poorest 90% of Haitians.

[NorthSideSox72]

Either of the Long skeletons unearthed from their graves or even David Duke could have done a much better job.

 

When you combine the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere with a totally incapacitated/decapitated UN mission...the Louis Armstrong Airport with what the Haitians have to work with, the sunken port/cranes and an obliterated National Palace with many government officers/police/firefighters/doctors dead or missing, there's really no basis possible to make any "governmental" comparisons between the US and Haiti.

 

Not to mention 150-250,000 corpses that have to be buried quickly...the final totals will be greater than the Tsunami.

 

The poorest 10% of Americans have a comparable life of luxury when juxtaposed with the poorest 90% of Haitians.

LOL, you were the one who started that!

 

[caulfield12]

LOL, you were the one who started that!

 

And what exactly has the Haitian government been able to do when compared to what the US government did?

 

 

 

I WROTE THAT? ARE YOU SURE?

 

Either the grammar's incorrect and it should read "what the US government is doing" (present continuous) or it's a comparison of Katrina and Haiti, isn't it?

[NorthSideSox72]

And what exactly has the Haitian government been able to do when compared to what the US government did?

 

 

 

I WROTE THAT? ARE YOU SURE?

 

Either the grammar's incorrect and it should read "what the US government is doing" (present continuous) or it's a comparison of Katrina and Haiti, isn't it?

Go back and read through the thread. You were the one who, repeatedly, kept bringing up comparisons with Katrina, until finally someone took the bait. You were the one who started with that stuff. You are talking in circles.

 

[bmags]

Air dropping in an urban area doesn't work well. They'd have to find clear area somewhere outside town, off some lousy road, and you're in the same place again.

 

Also, MRE's actually require that people in PAP know how to use them - its not obvious, believe it or not, and the instructions may not be in Creole.

 

Then there's the problem where, if you don't control the supply of that food, then the gangs will.

 

Makes sense, but doesn't seem like it'd be that much of a waste to try.

[southsider2k5]

Either of the Long skeletons unearthed from their graves or even David Duke could have done a much better job.

 

When you combine the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere with a totally incapacitated/decapitated UN mission...the Louis Armstrong Airport with what the Haitians have to work with, the sunken port/cranes and an obliterated National Palace with many government officers/police/firefighters/doctors dead or missing, there's really no basis possible to make any "governmental" comparisons between the US and Haiti.

 

Not to mention 150-250,000 corpses that have to be buried quickly...the final totals will be greater than the Tsunami.

 

The poorest 10% of Americans have a comparable life of luxury when juxtaposed with the poorest 90% of Haitians.

 

By this point, US government had long ago established a supply line and presence in NO. Haiti government is completely nuetered. If it was left up to them millions would be dead. I don't see how you can make any serious intelligent comparison between the two responses. Was Katrina ideal? No. But it was a damn lot more impressive than this.

[southsider2k5]

Go back and read through the thread. You were the one who, repeatedly, kept bringing up comparisons with Katrina, until finally someone took the bait. You were the one who started with that stuff. You are talking in circles.

 

That too. I was just responding to the stupid thought that some how the US government shouldn't be involved in Haiti.