Sox payroll formula working

[southsider2k5]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,4410774.story

 

Chicago White Sox say player-payroll formula still working

The formula of projected revenues minus projected expenses equaling player payroll is apparently working well for the White Sox this off-season

 

The formula of projected revenues minus projected expenses equaling player payroll is apparently working well for the White Sox this offseason.

 

Despite a slight increase in prices, season-ticket renewals are "strong" and projections are ahead of what the Sox anticipated at this point, vice president/chief marketing officer Brooks Boyer said Wednesday.

 

The result is that the Sox have 22 players signed for about $104.025 million for 2010. Even with $5.25 million coming from the Los Angeles Dodgers and Kansas City Royals in trades, the Sox's cash obligations to players will exceed $100 million with the resources to add another seasoned player if needed.

 

"We're pleased with the way we're progressing, but we still have a tough road ahead," said Boyer, who elaborated on the following subjects:

 

Ticket sales

 

The only exception to the nominal price increase is the special pricing of tickets for the three Cubs games at U.S. Cellular Field. Tickets for seats in the premium lower box and premium LG skyline club box sections for the Cubs games will cost $100 apiece. Those seats are priced from $54-$68 for other games.

 

The Sox are banking that their hyped starting rotation will entice more consumers, particularly among those interested in purchasing partial season plans and group plans.

 

"Our philosophy has been to have small (price) increases, rather than monumental jumps," Boyer said. "It looks pretty similar to last year."

 

Boyer wouldn't reveal last year's ticket base, which based on full season-ticket equivalents was believed to be around 17,500.

 

Sponsorship

 

Several sponsorships expired after last season, and Boyer admitted "we're still struggling in the financial sector category."

 

A deal between the Sox and convenience store 7-Eleven that promoted the starting times of home night games has ended, Boyer confirmed. Sox home night games will now start a minute earlier, at 7:10 p.m.

 

But Chevrolet returned after an absence to give the Sox an automotive presence.

 

"We have some major irons in the fire," Boyer said.

 

Stadium upgrades

 

There's a bigger emphasis on improvements outside the stadium. The Sox are navigating through the necessary channels with the hope of constructing a 6,000-square-foot restaurant/retail facility near Gate 5.

 

"We're doing our due diligence," said Boyer,

 

With last year's addition of an updated out-of-town scoreboard and the installation of escalators and elevators from Gate 5, Boyer says he is pleased with the current state of U.S. Cellular Field.

 

Spring training

 

After working out the first-year kinks, the Sox have added the following features at Camelback Ranch:

 

The removal of temporary fences and installation of a sodded path will allow fans to walk between the two main practice fields to observe workouts and "B" games. There also will be new bathrooms between the other four practice fields.

 

Parking will be free, and fans will have more food and retail options on the concourse level, Boyer said.

 

And if fans' tastes aren't satisfied, an In-N-Out Burger franchise -- a West Coast cult delicacy -- recently opened 1 ½ miles east of Camelback Ranch.

 

[email protected]

[justBLAZE]

$100 a ticket for the games vs CUBS? OUCH!

[iamshack]

$100 a ticket for the games vs CUBS? OUCH!

Let's face it, these games, by far, offer the most desired ticket of any games on our schedule. If you've ever been to one, it's very clear that those sitting in the premium seats are the more wealthy and well-connected of Chicagoans. Raising the price to $100 should do very little to scare away these people.

 

May as well make the money where and when you can.

[witesoxfan]

The result is that the Sox have 22 players signed for about $104.025 million for 2010. Even with $5.25 million coming from the Los Angeles Dodgers and Kansas City Royals in trades, the Sox's cash obligations to players will exceed $100 million with the resources to add another seasoned player if needed.

 

ORLY?

[justBLAZE]

ORLY?

 

I got a little excited when I read it but I'm pretty sure they mean trade deadline.

[caulfield12]

A Dick Allen comment, lol?

 

Well, I guess that's good to hear...although it certainly be "spun" to mean they won't do anything now and will prefer to wait at least until the end of spring training and possibly well into the season to make a move at DH.

 

Of course, the White Sox are also putting themselves into something of a Catch-22, the same situation Congress and President face with health care...namely, if they pass watered down legislation or withdraw and do nothing at all, BOTH will be utilized as potent arguments in the fall, no matter what happens in the next 9 months.

 

So, in a similar vein, if the White Sox DON'T add an additional player, they've put it out there before the season that there wasn't a reason for them not to do this financially. Heck, you can even over-read into the comments that if they can bring back a banking sponsorship and some of the "ovens in the fire" come through, then we'll have significant breathing room with the payroll. So are they really being truthful about another player being added or just trying to PR spin the fanbase to get more season tickets sold?

 

That's why I am absolutely not buying the fact that Ozzie actually wants the Kotsay/Jones combo for DH, OR Kotsay/Jones in RF. If you said to Ozzie, you can have Vlad Guerrero, Damon, Matsui or Jones/Kotsay, does anyone really think he would prefer the final option over the first 3? Ozzie's stubborn, but he's not that stupid when it comes to talent.

 

 

 

 

[Dick Allen]

A Dick Allen comment, lol?

 

Well, I guess that's good to hear...although it certainly be "spun" to mean they won't do anything now and will prefer to wait at least until the end of spring training and possibly well into the season to make a move at DH.

 

Of course, the White Sox are also putting themselves into something of a Catch-22, the same situation Congress and President face with health care...namely, if they pass watered down legislation or withdraw and do nothing at all, BOTH will be utilized as potent arguments in the fall, no matter what happens in the next 9 months.

 

So, in a similar vein, if the White Sox DON'T add an additional player, they've put it out there before the season that there wasn't a reason for them not to do this financially. Heck, you can even over-read into the comments that if they can bring back a banking sponsorship and some of the "ovens in the fire" come through, then we'll have significant breathing room with the payroll. So are they really being truthful about another player being added or just trying to PR spin the fanbase to get more season tickets sold?

 

That's why I am absolutely not buying the fact that Ozzie actually wants the Kotsay/Jones combo for DH, OR Kotsay/Jones in RF. If you said to Ozzie, you can have Vlad Guerrero, Damon, Matsui or Jones/Kotsay, does anyone really think he would prefer the final option over the first 3? Ozzie's stubborn, but he's not that stupid when it comes to talent.

I don't know why I get the hell I get when I turned out to be correct all along. I called them cheap last year when KW went into his $.50 speech BEFORE he got Peavy and Rios. So they did have money to burn. It wasn't buried in JR's backyard. He didn't forget he stashed it above the drop ceiling in his office. They had the money. Now payroll is a little higher and they admit, first JR last week, now even Brooks, without 7-11's 500k, they have money for another "established" player. Its not like they have sold more tickets yet. Single games haven't gone on sale. Some season ticketholders that haven't been able to upgrade for years have moved to better locations, so its a good assumption season ticket sales have declined over last season, probably just not at the pace they were anticipating. They are even hawking sponsorships and ballpark ad placement on their website, something I have never seen before, so you would assume they have had more sponsors previously. JR has been quoted as saying he will not lose money to win games. These are all facts. I was correct all along. Bring on Johnny Damon.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Dick Allen

[LittleHurt05]

$100 a ticket for the games vs CUBS? OUCH!

 

If you try to buy those tickets second-hand, you'll be paying close to that just for upper deck tickets

[caulfield12]

I don't know why I get the hell I get when I turned out to be correct all along. I called them cheap last year when KW went into his $.50 speech BEFORE he got Peavy and Rios. So they did have money to burn. It wasn't buried in JR's backyard. He didn't forget he stashed it above the drop ceiling in his office. They had the money. Now payroll is a little higher and they admit, first JR last week, now even Brooks, without 7-11's 500k, they have money for another "established" player. Its not like they have sold more tickets yet. Single games haven't gone on sale. Some season ticketholders that haven't been able to upgrade for years have moved to better locations, so its a good assumption season ticket sales have declined over last season, probably just not at the pace they were anticipating. They are even hawking sponsorships and ballpark ad placement on their website, something I have never seen before, so you would assume they have had more sponsors previously. JR has been quoted as saying he will not lose money to win games. These are all facts. I was correct all along. Bring on Johnny Damon.

 

 

Maybe some of the TARP or stimulus package accidentally was diverted to 35th and Shields...

 

Let's say the season tickets went from 17,500 down to 15,000...you're a season ticket holder, right? So multiply 2500 times the average price of a season ticket and maybe 1000 X the price of a parking pass and then also remove 7-11's $500,000 and whatever we were getting from Bank of America/Fifth Third Bank.

 

That's a pretty significant amount of "missing" revenue at this point. So I wonder if their enthusiasm is simply based on the team as composed and "forecasting/projecting" that walk-up, Ozzie Plan/partial season ticket packages will be scooped up if the team plays as well as expected and June arrives with nice weather??? Is it based on the idea of a financial recovery starting to take hold as the year goes on in Chicago and sports marketing dollars again being freed up by the second half of the season?

 

One thing I found interesting was about Spring Training. Didn't they charge some crazy amount for parking last year? Maybe that's wrong, I know it wasn't the same as regular season games, but I don't remember parking being free either?

 

Or maybe it's simply because they feel they can make more from Spring Training with everything being more organized and the fact that Viciedo's contract/signing bonus doesn't affect the bottom line as much this year, I don't know.

[NorthSideSox72]

I don't know why I get the hell I get when I turned out to be correct all along. I called them cheap last year when KW went into his $.50 speech BEFORE he got Peavy and Rios. So they did have money to burn. It wasn't buried in JR's backyard. He didn't forget he stashed it above the drop ceiling in his office. They had the money. Now payroll is a little higher and they admit, first JR last week, now even Brooks, without 7-11's 500k, they have money for another "established" player. Its not like they have sold more tickets yet. Single games haven't gone on sale. Some season ticketholders that haven't been able to upgrade for years have moved to better locations, so its a good assumption season ticket sales have declined over last season, probably just not at the pace they were anticipating. They are even hawking sponsorships and ballpark ad placement on their website, something I have never seen before, so you would assume they have had more sponsors previously. JR has been quoted as saying he will not lose money to win games. These are all facts. I was correct all along. Bring on Johnny Damon.

Right all along? Hard not to be when you manage to argue both "The Sox are cheap and won't spend" and "The Sox have money for other players, see Rios, Peavy". Easy to be right when you are on both sides of the argument.

 

[southsider2k5]

Right all along? Hard not to be when you manage to argue both "The Sox are cheap and won't spend" and "The Sox have money for other players, see Rios, Peavy". Easy to be right when you are on both sides of the argument.

 

Not to mention the argument has been completely destroyed in detail.

[iamshack]

Not to mention the argument has been completely destroyed in detail.

I've written this before, and I am going to write it again, as I really think it's the best analogy one can make regarding this situation:

 

The White Sox have credit cards and use their income to pay those credit cards off, in full for the most part, from month to month. The White Sox say they have little or no more money, but could make an acquisition (and put that player on their "credit card") if an impact player was out there for the right price and he was the right fit for the Club.

 

What DA is asking them to do is max out their credit cards every month/season. Spend EVERY AVAILABLE dollar.

 

It's just ridiculous.

[Ranger]

I've written this before, and I am going to write it again, as I really think it's the best analogy one can make regarding this situation:

 

The White Sox have credit cards and use their income to pay those credit cards off, in full for the most part, from month to month. The White Sox say they have little or no more money, but could make an acquisition (and put that player on their "credit card") if an impact player was out there for the right price and he was the right fit for the Club.

 

What DA is asking them to do is max out their credit cards every month/season. Spend EVERY AVAILABLE dollar.

 

It's just ridiculous.

 

Touch 'em all. You can only max out those cards if you are absolutely positive that money is going to come back to you during the year. Like in '06, they knew they would make that money back because of the World Series excitement. That's as close to a guarantee of revenue as they will ever get.

 

You cannot expect a team to ever take an operating loss just to go balls out in the hopes the money they spend will win them a title. It's simply too big of a gamble and it's a lot of money to be playing around with. It's just not smart.

 

 

[maki]

Touch 'em all. You can only max out those cards if you are absolutely positive that money is going to come back to you during the year. Like in '06, they knew they would make that money back because of the World Series excitement. That's as close to a guarantee of revenue as they will ever get.

 

You cannot expect a team to ever take an operating loss just to go balls out in the hopes the money they spend will win them a title. It's simply too big of a gamble and it's a lot of money to be playing around with. It's just not smart.

 

Tis is certainly optimal for most major league teams where your only expectation can be a fickle, casual fanbase. If there's a way to convince the brass that short-term ooperating losses will lead to continued revenue growth its something you can explore. However, there's no way a city like Chicago is going to be able to support 2 teams with consistent support from a non-casual or continuously supportive fan. I'd argue that consistent winners, even absent a WS or AL title for extended periods will experience greater growth than your average MLB team, but spending certainly doesn't equal success in baseball like it may elsewhere. I think there's probably one too many variables for the south siders to behave in a less rigid fashion than they are currently and for good reason.

 

With spending guidelines we need to investigate other avenues at creating a successful team, where we're starting to show success, or at least a healthy interest, in international scouting. The next step is more successful scouting across the board in the system.

[joeynach]

Brooks told me personally about a month ago that the sox were in negotiations with PNC to become the new banking sponser. Something the team missed pretty badly last year with the whole financial industry debacle. PNC is one of the healthy banks and had recently acquired National City in order to make a prescence in the Midwest, namely the Chicago market. I had brought up this fact to Brooks stating they might be a willing banking partner for the sox since they are looking to make a splash in Chicago and he replied stating they were already in negotiations. Cant comment on if a deal is going to result or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if its just a matter of time.

[iamshack]

Brooks told me personally about a month ago that the sox were in negotiations with PNC to become the new banking sponser. Something the team missed pretty badly last year with the whole financial industry debacle. PNC is one of the healthy banks and had recently acquired National City in order to make a prescence in the Midwest, namely the Chicago market. I had brought up this fact to Brooks stating they might be a willing banking partner for the sox since they are looking to make a splash in Chicago and he replied stating they were already in negotiations. Cant comment on if a deal is going to result or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if its just a matter of time.

Interesting. I am surprised they would be allowed to become a sponsor of another MLB team considering their ownership of the naming right's to Pittsburgh's facility.

[Leonard Zelig]

Interesting. I am surprised they would be allowed to become a sponsor of another MLB team considering their ownership of the naming right's to Pittsburgh's facility.

 

Not sure if its the same, but US Cellular gives out stuff at Cardinals games all the time.

[iamshack]

Not sure if its the same, but US Cellular gives out stuff at Cardinals games all the time.

Ahh, well, probably is then.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

I've written this before, and I am going to write it again, as I really think it's the best analogy one can make regarding this situation:

 

The White Sox have credit cards and use their income to pay those credit cards off, in full for the most part, from month to month. The White Sox say they have little or no more money, but could make an acquisition (and put that player on their "credit card") if an impact player was out there for the right price and he was the right fit for the Club.

 

What DA is asking them to do is max out their credit cards every month/season. Spend EVERY AVAILABLE dollar.

 

It's just ridiculous.

Can you find a quote where I say what you said I said? I never have. In fact, I'm the guy stating SS2k5's claim that the White Sox are a "zero sum" team,(his term) that every dollar that comes in goes out is a falsehood. I don't begrudge the White Sox for making a profit. I just hate all the talk that they don't ever have money to spend, when every indication, no matter what SS2k5 wants to ignore, says they have plenty to spend if they choose. Face it, his "proof" is Forbes, which calls the White Sox one of the most profitable teams in baseball and has their pre-tax profit at over $80 million from 2005-8 and a poster who says his parents know an investor and he says they make no money they spend it on midseason acquitions and ballpark improvements. Please check the White Sox lease. They don't pay for renovations, so you would have to question the source. I have a source. Mine has always told me the Sox make a decent amount of money. I never complained until they jacked up my bill and trotted out DWise as the leadoff man in 2009. Mine even told me about blueprints JR was sitting on in 2005 for bars in the parking lot. I did post that on here 4 years ago. As someone who spends about $7500 a year on tickets, I was extremely pissed off last year when they cut payroll more than every team except SD and raised ticket prices. Then I had to hear the "we have to let our young players know they will get a shot here" crap. Has that gone by the boards? Its pretty apparent if you are trying to win DWise as your leadoff man playing CF wasn't going to work. Brent Lillibridge who hit .220 in AAA in 2008 wasn't going to work in the AL. They obviously needed more and there were plenty of bargains last offseason. I laugh at being told I had both sides of the cheap argument. I absolutely did not. I called them cheap for the very first time at the beginning of the season when they said they had no money then added a lot of money, and it would have been more had Peavy said yes the first time. In fact I called KW's trade for Peavy his best trade ever. Rios I question, and there is no way anyone will ever convince me KW was truly prepared to eat that entire contract. If he was and he really wanted him, he could have gotten him before he was put on waivers thus eliminating any possiblity of another team claiming him and missing out.

 

All that matters is there is money available for another player. I hope they use it. Even if Kotsay and Jones are able to turn back the clock which I am very skeptical, the chances of those 2 and Quentin all making it through the season without at least one of them and probably at least 2 missing significant time have to be close to zero. They need another bat. I want Damon, although Boras being his agent and Jones' agent seems like it could be a roadblock. Taking possible playing time from Andruw might keep Boras from considering a White Sox offer. I think though if the reports about Atlanta and NY are true and they have a maximum of $2 million available each, $4-5 million with some incentives could get Scott to ignore his quandry.

Edited January 22, 2010 by Dick Allen

[iamshack]

Seriously DA, you have stepped all over yourself trying to hold up your argument. If the White Sox did things your way, they would stuck with a bunch of s***brick longterm contracts that would drive them into 4th and 5th place every few years.

 

This argument will never be won by either side.

 

I suggest you cancel your season tickets so we don't have to hear you cry at EVERY SINGLE MENTION OF MONEY.

[Dick Allen]

Seriously DA, you have stepped all over yourself trying to hold up your argument. If the White Sox did things your way, they would stuck with a bunch of s***brick longterm contracts that would drive them into 4th and 5th place every few years.

 

This argument will never be won by either side.

 

I suggest you cancel your season tickets so we don't have to hear you cry at EVERY SINGLE MENTION OF MONEY.

This will be my 21st season with season tickets. I haven't cried about the White Sox being cheap except for the beginning of last year. Funny how the season ticketbase is a little smaller than last year, the ticket prices the same and the attendance took another 200k dip for the 3rd consecutive year, but the payroll is higher now and according to JR there is still money to spend. If that and the Peavy and Rios additions, don't make it appear they sat on cash during the beginning of last year I guess no one will win this argument. If you go back over the time I have owned tickets, I have complained less about White Sox spending a lot less than the normal fan. Once again, I have never suggested the White Sox spend all their money. I have never suggested they sign guys to the contracts you suggest. I was against them trading for Vazquez. In fact, I was dumbfounded by the Rios pick up. Last offseason, there were tons of bargains for one and two year contracts. The Sox needed help. They decided Wise, Lillibridge et al. were the answer. Just once I'd like you to give me an example of what you claim I post using one of my posts. Just once.

 

Fourth or fifth place every few years seems to be what the White Sox do now. Anyway, you say I'm tripping over myself. Just show me one example of me posting the White Sox need to sign all kinds of guys to huge longterm contracts and you will win the argument and I will never post here again. I don't know how you can make something up about what I supposedly post and say I'm tripping over myself. Look in the mirror.

Edited January 22, 2010 by Dick Allen