The Jim Thome Saga Ends

[chw42]

Someone at SoxFest rag on Guillen and KW to get Thome signed. What do you guys think about the platoon at DH? Looking at the Sox roster, does it make sense to re-sign Thome? It doesn't sound like KW is too enthused about the possibility of bringing Thome back...

 

Andruw Jones and Mark Kotsay or Jim Thome...

 

I think it's obvious who we'd all rather have.

[Ozzie Ball]

Andruw Jones and Mark Kotsay or Jim Thome...

 

I think it's obvious who we'd all rather have.

You say that but there are plenty of people who don't want to see Thome back. People don't like that he clogs the bases. Apparently having men on base is a problem.

 

Who knew.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Now Ozzie wants 13 pitchers on his staff???

[Eminor3rd]

This Jones/Kotsay thing is a bad joke. Why are you doing this Kenny?

[bmags]

since 2006 we've had a 100 mill payroll and since 2006 have been in one of the weaker divisions. And we have 1 division title to show for it. If we don't make it into the playoffs next year, JR should start looking at the idiotic holes KW places on this ball club for a manager who seems to think it makes his team better.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Now Ozzie wants 13 pitchers on his staff???

^And this is the dumbest thing Ozzie has said, and I mean ever, not just this offseason.

 

And Kenny Williams, please, grow some f***ing balls why don't you? This is YOUR team, not Ozzie's. Jerry hired YOU to put the best AMERICAN LEAGUE team on the field possible, not Ozzie. You've given Ozzie enough crappy ballplayers already. Bring back Thome before he pisses off every Sox fan on the planet by going to Minnesota, and do it because you need a f***ing DH, not because your crazyass manager gave you permission. My God.

[DaveBrown85]

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=4851862

White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen said he wants to make a decision on the possible future of Jim Thome with the club before he leaves Sunday for Miami.

 

ESPNChicago.com baseball blog

The latest news from baseball beat reporter Bruce Levine. Blog

 

Guillen said he doesn't feel pressured with the decision to re-sign the popular slugger, but clearly, the call will be a tough one.

 

"Sometimes, when you [decide] with your heart, you make the wrong decision," Guillen said. "Unfortunately in baseball, you have to [decide] with your brains, and I'm going to see what's best for the ballclub."

 

Thome, who was traded from the Sox to the Dodgers on Aug. 31 and is now a free agent, has been rumored to be going to Minnesota. Guillen dismissed the Twins report and said he will not wait for spring training because it would not be fair to Thome.

 

Guillen's plans to have a designated hitter by committee didn't seem to jibe with a place on the White Sox roster for Thome.

 

"The only reason I'm holding [back on] my decision on Jimmy," Guillen said, "is because I don't know how many at-bats I'm going to give him, and it's not fair to Jim Thome or the ballclub. I don't want to walk in the clubhouse and try to avoid Jimmy because he's not playing. That's why we have to make it clear about the situation to both sides.

 

"I wish I hated this guy. I wish I could say to Kenny [Williams, the White Sox general manager], 'I don't want to talk about him.' But this guy is so special to us, that's why we're talking about bringing him back."

 

Williams said he will defer to Guillen on a decision.

 

"I'm all for Jim to come back if it fits in Ozzie's plan," Williams said. "But, if it doesn't fit in Ozzie's plan and rotation, and Jim doesn't get enough at-bats to be Jim and be successful, then it's not a workable situation for the club, for Ozzie, or for Jim."

 

Guillen said he prefers to have 13 pitchers on his staff, which could affect the Thome decision.

 

Williams said he has told Thome that whenever he retires, regardless of where he plays in the interim, the White Sox want him to be a part of the organization.

 

Melissa Isaacson is a columnist and reporter for ESPNChicago.com.

[Balta1701]

Williams said he will defer to Guillen on a decision.

I just wanted to note that.

[JorgeFabregas]

I fear that they are far too dug in and committed to the "flexibility" of the rotating DH. I'm not sure why adding a good hitter would decrease flexibility, but that seems to be the prevailing idea.

 

Also, the whole notion of "holding Ozzie accountable by giving him the team he wants" seems wrong-headed. Who cares about holding Ozzie accountable? Is the idea that ownership can feel better about themselves if and when they fire him?

Edited January 23, 2010 by JorgeFabregas

[Balta1701]

Also, the whole notion of "holding Ozzie accountable by giving him the team he wants" seems wrong-headed. Who cares about holding Ozzie accountable? Is the idea that ownership can feel better about themselves if and when they fire him?

Really, if they go with this and they wind up missing the playoffs with the #12 offense in the AL, they both ought to go. They're sticking their necks out on what looks like an obvious mistake, and if it winds up being a mistake, well, there's little excuse.

[YonderLaroche]

Now Ozzie wants 13 pitchers on his staff???

 

That dont make any sense. 13 pitchers + 9 starting hitters = 3 guys on bench... so Jones starts, Kotsay, Vizquel, Castro is your bench.

[SoxAce]

Really, if they go with this and they wind up missing the playoffs with the #12 offense in the AL, they both ought to go. They're sticking their necks out on what looks like an obvious mistake, and if it winds up being a mistake, well, there's little excuse.

 

Ozzie goes a hell of a lot faster than KW in my mind. Just feel that Ozzie was way more involved with personel decisions this year as usual. This is not KW's usual "creative" offseason other than the Teahan acquisition which IMO... saves him this year if we suck again. I hope our pitching all around pitches well (some guys hopefully have career years I.E. 2005) cause we might be in alot of 1-0, 2-1, 3-2 ball games.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

This is in another thread, but it deserves it's own thread anyway.

 

The 13 pitchers thing is beyond retarded. Why the f*** did we let Carrasco go then? I thought there wouldn't be enough innings to go around? Now there's even MORE innings to go around? And secondly, carrying 13 pitchers means 8 regulars + Jones + Kotsay + Castro + Omar. That means if we lose an IF for a few days we have to DL him automatically, because if someone else goes down we'd have an OF in the IF. Remember JD playing SS? We could have that again.

 

Ozzie has never been this dumb before, this is all new territory for him. There's another article out where he's talking about running all the time for no reason, just to be different. He even insinuates that he will do stupid things on the basepath regularly, and on purpose, and that the team may look really bad early on but get better. On top of that there's the ridiculous "DH by AAAA committee" as well as the notion that AL teams will be permanently moving away from the full-time DH in the very near future.

 

I've always said I loved Ozzie's passion for the organization and everything else, and he's one of my all-time favorite Sox players, but if he goes through with this s*** then he needs to be fired immediately. You just can't do that s***. This is seriously some Dusty Baker bulls***.

[knightni]

If the 5 starters are among the best in the majors, why do you need 8 bullpen guys?

[iWiN4PreP]

Johnny Damon told the Newark Star-Ledger's Marc Carig Saturday that he expects to sign with a team within the next week.

Damon, 36, batted .282/.365/.489 with 24 home runs, 82 RBI and 107 runs scored with the Yankees last season but he's had trouble finding a club that is willing to meet his lofty contract demands. He made $13 million in 2009 and was likely hoping for double-digit millions this winter. Of course, he won't find that kind of salary no matter where he lands

 

 

Please Please Please!

Edited January 23, 2010 by CryptviLL

[Balta1701]

That dont make any sense. 13 pitchers + 9 starting hitters = 3 guys on bench... so Jones starts, Kotsay, Vizquel, Castro is your bench.

It makes as much sense as anything else we've heard about this spot.

[RockRaines]

This is in another thread, but it deserves it's own thread anyway.

 

The 13 pitchers thing is beyond retarded. Why the f*** did we let Carrasco go then? I thought there wouldn't be enough innings to go around? Now there's even MORE innings to go around? And secondly, carrying 13 pitchers means 8 regulars + Jones + Kotsay + Castro + Omar. That means if we lose an IF for a few days we have to DL him automatically, because if someone else goes down we'd have an OF in the IF. Remember JD playing SS? We could have that again.

 

Ozzie has never been this dumb before, this is all new territory for him. There's another article out where he's talking about running all the time for no reason, just to be different. He even insinuates that he will do stupid things on the basepath regularly, and on purpose, and that the team may look really bad early on but get better. On top of that there's the ridiculous "DH by AAAA committee" as well as the notion that AL teams will be permanently moving away from the full-time DH in the very near future.

 

I've always said I loved Ozzie's passion for the organization and everything else, and he's one of my all-time favorite Sox players, but if he goes through with this s*** then he needs to be fired immediately. You just can't do that s***. This is seriously some Dusty Baker bulls***.

Nice rant, I hope it felt good.

 

 

We didnt bring back Carrasco because he wanted to start and the Sox couldnt give him that opportunity. And that article about running early is about spring training and getting the team right by the first pitch.

[Balta1701]

Ozzie goes a hell of a lot faster than KW in my mind. Just feel that Ozzie was way more involved with personel decisions this year as usual. This is not KW's usual "creative" offseason other than the Teahan acquisition which IMO... saves him this year if we suck again. I hope our pitching all around pitches well (some guys hopefully have career years I.E. 2005) cause we might be in alot of 1-0, 2-1, 3-2 ball games.

Kenny's job is to make decisions he thinks are best roster-wise. If he decides its best to listen to Ozzie, and Ozzie is blatantly wrong, then it's KW who takes the blame there.

 

He better be expecting 30+ HR from Jones if this is gonna work.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Nice rant, I hope it felt good.

 

 

We didnt bring back Carrasco because he wanted to start and the Sox couldnt give him that opportunity. And that article about running early is about spring training and getting the team right by the first pitch.

BS. He wanted to start ever since he got here and we kept him in the bullpen because that's where he was effective. Carrasco wasn't exactly demanding to be traded or asking for outrageous money in arb either. This wasn't anything like a GMJ/Bradley situation at all where he was running to the media and b****ing about his situation. The Sox let him go because they didn't think they needed that many innings with 5 starters and Hudson in the wings, which actually makes sense. Carrying 13 pitchers however does not make any sense.

 

And Spring Training or not, there's never any reason to get in the habit of playing retarded baseball. Guys who shouldn't be running shouldn't be running. Situations where players shouldn't be running they shouldn't run in. And from reading that my immediate impression was we'll be seeing guys like Teahen, Kotsay, and Jones looking to steal all the time. Why? That makes zero sense.

 

Edit: BTW, here's that article:

CHICAGO -- Ozzie Guillen already has a promise for the 2010 season, his seventh as manager of the Chicago White Sox: Fans can expect to see unconventional baseball early on from his revamped team.

The talkative and sometimes controversial manager made his comments Friday during the team's annual winter convention at a downtown hotel.

"We're going to find out and see if I can manage here or not. Early you might see stupid things on the field and I will be second guessed. But I will take my chances," Guillen said.

"We are going to play aggressive and that will start in spring training. We are going to do some crazy stuff. ... I'm going to try to put everything in motion. Get used to it. Sometimes it's going to work, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes we are going to run with no outs -- triple play. I will be criticized."

The new-look White Sox were formed by a busy offseason.

Slugger Jermaine Dye was not re-signed. The White Sox added a third baseman in Mark Teahen and a new left fielder and leadoff hitter in Juan Pierre. They signed veterans Andruw Jones and Omar Vizquel, while bringing back another veteran, Mark Kotsay, to strengthen their bench. They added J.J. Putz to the bullpen.

They're counting on an injury-free season from Carlos Quentin and a better performance from Alex Rios, who struggled greatly after being signed off the waiver wire from Toronto in August.

And Gordon Beckham, who had a strong rookie season after being called up in June, has been moved to second base from third.

Guillen says the White Sox will run the bases more aggressively and create more scoring opportunities. And they should play better defense after making 113 errors last season. Jones in center and Viquel in the infield should help.

"We just got to get used to playing a different ballgame and that's what we're going to do," Guillen said.

"I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production," Guillen said. "Last year we were making errors in the wrong place, we were throwing the ball to the wrong base, a lot of mistakes on the bases and a lot of hits where we don't score."

The result was a 79-83 finish.

With a healthy Jake Peavy, who missed three months last season while recovering from an ankle injury, Chicago's starting rotation should be strong. Peavy, who won all three of his starts for the White Sox after being acquired from the Padres, is the expected ace.

Williams joked Friday that Peavy could draw the first fine of 2010 for wearing jeans with holes in them to the festival.

But if Peavy pitches like the former Cy Young Award winner he is, his attire won't matter much.

Joining Peavy is lefty Mark Buehrle, who pitched a perfect game against Tampa Bay on July 23 and then went 2-7 over his final 13 starts, lefty John Danks, Gavin Floyd and Freddy Garcia.

"It's taken a long time for us to get to the point where 1 through 5 we feel we can match up on any given day with anyone in the league," Williams said.

Peavy and Buehrle were already trading compliments.

Although logic says Peavy will be the opening day starter, the right-hander was deferring to Buehrle. Buehrle has already started seven season openers for the White Sox, tying Billy Pierce for most in team history.

"I believe this is Mark Buehrle's staff and I said that from Day One," Peavy said, adding it would be fine with him if Buehrle starts the opener April 5 against Cleveland. "He's been the face of this franchise."

Buehrle, who has pitched 200 innings or more in nine straight seasons, has been doing arm-strenghtening work during the offseason to give him more durability in the second half.

His pick would be Peavy.

"If I get it and break the record it would be good, but if I retire tied with the record I'm not going to be upset. ... I think he is better than me, so I'd put him out there. If I were the manager, he'd be starting opening day for me."

 

Ozzie says he'll *start* his bulls*** during Spring Training but will carry it on throughout the season. And also, even if Ozzie were only referring to these "stupid" baserunning gaffes as happening in ST and not during the regular season, does any Sox fan with a brain actually think that players who aren't designed to play the Angels' type of speed game are going to magically become capable of playing that kind of game after about a month of practice in meaningless games against mostly minor league players? Give me a break. Ozzie has lost it.

Edited January 23, 2010 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[bmags]

These two men are NOT stupid, I know this. However, this is the STUPIDEST DAMN THING I'VE EVER COME ACROSS AS A SPORTS FAN! This isn't poor judgment in the "we don't know how to scout" category, or the "we sign the wrong guys" category, that just means you aren't cut out...this is willfully declining to sign a player you KNOW will make you better,a nd he's coming in at a paupers salary. KW is acting like his 8 year old son is in control of the team and he doesn't want to hurt his feelings. DIE EVERYONE WORLD IS OVER

[knightni]

Thome would help if he's used correctly.

 

Ozzie, you can still have flexibility and use Thome!

[NorthSideSox72]

Tempting to email Ozzie about this, but frankly, he'd probably be LESS likely to ask for Thome if all the emails wanted him.

 

Dear Ozzie-

 

You got your speedy leadoff guy, you got guys who can bunt and steal bases, and your defense is better. Now, please, do the right thing, and give the team the one more LH bat it needs. Platoon Thome with Jones - there's your flexibility.

 

Sincerely,

NSS

 

[SoxFan562004]

Please Please Please!

on one of the local radio shows Scott Merkin was on, said somebody asked about Damon in the townhall meeting thing today and it was shot down.

[iWiN4PreP]

Thome is not the naswer! Damon is!

 

I can't wait to see what Ozzie has instore for this season by the looks of it! I personally hope he lives by his word and does crazy stuff.

 

This is coming from a guy who hasn't liked Ozzie since 2006! haha

[SoxAce]

If he decides its best to listen to Ozzie, and Ozzie is blatantly wrong, then it's KW who takes the blame there.

 

That's where you and I really disagree at. Instead of writing a 3 paragraph essay on it, I'll just leave it at that.

 

This makes me laugh..

 

"I'd rather have Rios steal 50 bases than hit 50 home runs. I want production," Guillen said.