The Jim Thome Saga Ends

[Melissa1334]

Typing like that makes you sound like a 12 year old who just got on AOL for the first time, sorry.

 

Once I stopped typing like that, my wpm also increased dramatically. Its really pointless, but whatever floats your boat.

just dont think its a big deal. on a sports board, im not typing h.w. wow, 2 words. dont have other things to cry about i guess. whatever floats YOUR boat too.

[Thad Bosley]

its in one of the threads, that the yankees outbid them for johnson, couldnt compete with their offer.

Lol - well, if we can't outbid an offer of $5.5 million, then I am really concerned about the future of the franchise. No, while we would have liked him, we were apparently not willing to bid too much over his market value to get him. And that's fine from a business perspective, I guess, but the result is that the Yanks have him, we don't, and we're still stuck with Jones/Kotsay.

[iamshack]

no, i know were not getting him lol hes my fave. player(played for mexico in the wbc, awesome). i just dont think we should overreact. lets see how things unfold.

We may indeed get him still. But my point is it's highly doubtful that the decision to acquire a huge bat like Gonzalez would have anything to do with signing Thome for $2m, other than the fact that we may be forced to overpay for such a bat because we didn't sign Thome when we had the chance.

 

And see how things unfold? We've been watching nothing unfold in this regard for a month. Well, it just unfolded. And we're going to play Juan Pierre and Omar Vizquel at DH some games. Sorry, I am Ozzie and KW's biggest fan, but unless we are the Pittsburgh Pirates, that is unacceptable.

[iamshack]

Am I now allowed to say that this offseason has sucked, as I'm not impressed at all with the job KW and Ozzie have done? And I'm usually pretty optimistic in the offseason, but it's ridiculous how bad our lineup is on paper.

I didn't realize you were holding back before.

[fathom]

I didn't realize you were holding back before.

 

I've been saying all along I thought it was 50/50 that we'd bring in another hitter. I would still love to bring in Blalock, but it seems like it was Thome or nothing.

 

BTW, your post above this one is perfect!

Edited January 26, 2010 by fathom

[Melissa1334]

We may indeed get him still. But my point is it's highly doubtful that the decision to acquire a huge bat like Gonzalez would have anything to do with signing Thome for $2m, other than the fact that we may be forced to overpay for such a bat because we didn't sign Thome when we had the chance.

 

And see how things unfold? We've been watching nothing unfold in this regard for a month. Well, it just unfolded. And we're going to play Juan Pierre and Omar Vizquel at DH some games. Sorry, I am Ozzie and KW's biggest fan, but unless we are the Pittsburgh Pirates, that is unacceptable.

everyone is just a bit too pessemistic. you never know what can happen. it might work out , who knows. its just not going to help or do anything, complaining and getting upset about the whole thing. do we really want to talk about this the whole rest of the offseason?

[southsideirish71]

no, i want the sox to win. and ur talking about the same people that were crying all yr how they hated thome and pods. hey, atleast my opinions arent all over. make up ur mind. fine, the season is over bcuz thome isnt coming back. i dont want him bcuz i feel theres still a chance they can get someone better.

 

 

'Whoever wants to come to the White Sox as long as I'm here, he's not going to be a full-time DH,'' Guillen said. ''Nobody. I don't care who it is.''

 

Maybe we should petition to move to the NL, because this type of plan isn't going to work well for the long term in the AL.

 

[Melissa1334]

'Whoever wants to come to the White Sox as long as I'm here, he's not going to be a full-time DH,'' Guillen said. ''Nobody. I don't care who it is.''

 

Maybe we should petition to move to the NL, because this type of plan isn't going to work well for the long term in the AL.

lol. well, we'll see how smart ozzie is

[dmbjeff]

That's really not true.

 

 

 

Rongey, who would Jones or Kotsay seriously start for right now? They are bench players, 4th OF's. Jones hasn't been a good starter since 2006 and 2007 since being a starter at all. Kotsay hasn't been a starter since 2006 while putting up 4th OF type numbers.

 

Jones has at least been good in the past but it's been 4 years since he a was good. Are we counting on him to be good again just because he is supposed to be in good shape? If he was in such great shape and ready to be good again, wouldn't another team have been clamoring for him or Kotsay this offseason?

[iamshack]

'Whoever wants to come to the White Sox as long as I'm here, he's not going to be a full-time DH,'' Guillen said. ''Nobody. I don't care who it is.''

 

Maybe we should petition to move to the NL, because this type of plan isn't going to work well for the long term in the AL.

Kenny needs to muzzle his ass.

[fathom]

Kenny needs to muzzle his ass.

 

I can't believe no one else commented on Ozzie saying he wouldn't put Omar into a blowout game because that's not fair to a future HOF.

[witesoxfan]

I really think you guys are forgetting the competition this year. This is not a good division. This is not the East. If it were, the Sox might be in trouble.

 

The Twins are a good team. They have the best lineup in the Central and adding Thome would only strengthen that. They have a ton of capable starting pitchers, and I'm sure that 4 of Blackburn, Slowey, Baker, Duensing, Pavano, Perkins, Liriano, Swarzak, Manship, and any other young starters they have in the minors can put up good seasons (which would mean they just need one decent starter out of the others). Their bullpen is likely to be very good again as well, as they have Rauch returning to go along with Nathan, Guerrier, Mijares, and seeing Crain put up a good season wouldn't surprise me either, and the Sox got really lucky the Twins gave up on Breslow as quickly as they did last year.

 

It's not the East, you're correct there, but I think the Sox are only the 2nd most talented team in the division.

 

I'm not writing them off, but I'm not pleased with how this offseason went.

Edited January 26, 2010 by witesoxfan

[Ranger]

Rongey, who would Jones or Kotsay seriously start for right now? They are bench players, 4th OF's. Jones hasn't been a good starter since 2006 and 2007 since being a starter at all. Kotsay hasn't been a starter since 2006 while putting up 4th OF type numbers.

 

Jones has at least been good in the past but it's been 4 years since he a was good. Are we counting on him to be good again just because he is supposed to be in good shape? If he was in such great shape and ready to be good again, wouldn't another team have been clamoring for him or Kotsay this offseason?

 

Dave Matthews Band Jeff, you're making hyperbolic, blanket statements about those two players. You said neither of them could start on any other team in baseball, which implies that only the Sox would have given them starting jobs (which by the way, they don't have anyway). Kotsay could maybe start in teh outfield for a number of NL teams (ATL, Giants, Astros, COL maybe, Padres maybe). I just don't think you can say with absolute certainty that he could not start anywhere else. Same for Jones. But it doesn't matter anyway, because NEITHER OF THEM ARE STARTING HERE.

 

I can't stand hyperbole, negative or positive.

 

[Flash Tizzle]

You will get no argument from me that it is not ideal. I agree with that. I'm simply saying that the fate of this lineup does not necessarily hinge on the DH, especially if the big boys do their job. The Rays scored the 5th most runs in the league last year (7th overall) and Pat Burrell had an OPS of around .680 as their full-time DH. It's not ideal, but it doesn't mean it won't be good enough...especially in the Central.

So, ultimately, if the DH position turns out to be as embarrassing as many expect, it's very convenient to say, "yes, Jones and Kotsay are terrible; but if (insert player) was producing well it wouldn't matter!" There's always going to be someone struggling. Even if the entire lineup is tanking it doesn't change the opinion of myself, and apparently many others on this website, that entering the season with those two sharing ABs just doesn't make sense. How does anyone, especially you, justify it?

 

From your posts I gather that Kotsay and Jones aren't the ideal combination; but their presence won't make or break the team, so it shouldn't matter. We can always have more flexibility midseason. Am I wrong?

 

For the sake of Guillen (and I don't mean anything concerning job security, just public backlash) he better hope Thome doesn't outproduce Kotsay/Jones. It'll be delicious if, come midseason, we're left having to overpay for a DH in the trade market, meanwhile Thome is producing a .850 OPS with 15 HRs all for $2 million. And I'm sure he'll destroy us.

 

[iWiN4PreP]

I still say just let it be, give Ozzie his chance. Jones is not a bad hitter. I think he will surprise people this year - I could see him outproducing what Thome would have done. Kotsay is a good compliment to him at DH.

 

Letting hte DH give our hitters rest days as well as being in the lineup is awesome.

 

I am eager to see how it works.

[knightni]

I am eager to see if it works.

Fixed.

 

Jones better start turning water into wine and healing the lame if it's going to work.

[witesoxfan]

I still say just let it be, give Ozzie his chance. Jones is not a bad hitter. I think he will surprise people this year - I could see him outproducing what Thome would have done. Kotsay is a good compliment to him at DH.

 

Letting hte DH give our hitters rest days as well as being in the lineup is awesome.

 

I am eager to see how it works.

 

I still hate that line of thought.

[iWiN4PreP]

True - I mean, I'm not saying it will be perfect and dandy, but it gives us alot of options. We haven't even started spring training yet, we got alot of adequette ball players on the team, if things fail, we have enough prospects to make almost any trade we want!

 

We have the options, let's see how it works with a more... abstract approach.

[Melissa1334]

So, ultimately, if the DH position turns out to be as embarrassing as many expect, it's very convenient to say, "yes, Jones and Kotsay are terrible; but if (insert player) was producing well it wouldn't matter!" There's always going to be someone struggling. Even if the entire lineup is tanking it doesn't change the opinion of myself, and apparently many others on this website, that entering the season with those two sharing ABs just doesn't make sense. How does anyone, especially you, justify it?

 

From your posts I gather that Kotsay and Jones aren't the ideal combination; but their presence won't make or break the team, so it shouldn't matter. We can always have more flexibility midseason. Am I wrong?

 

For the sake of Guillen (and I don't mean anything concerning job security, just public backlash) he better hope Thome doesn't outproduce Kotsay/Jones. It'll be delicious if, come midseason, we're left having to overpay for a DH in the trade market, meanwhile Thome is producing a .850 OPS with 15 HRs all for $2 million. And I'm sure he'll destroy us.

well its going to be kind of hard if thome (according to some) is going to be a primary pinch hitter, a role in which he isnt that good at in the first place.

[fathom]

True - I mean, I'm not saying it will be perfect and dandy, but it gives us alot of options. We haven't even started spring training yet, we got alot of adequette ball players on the team, if things fail, we have enough prospects to make almost any trade we want!

 

We have the options, let's see how it works with a more... abstract approach.

 

Options for what? Mark Kotsay is very injury prone, so what's going to happen when he pulls a muscle? I'm sure we'll see Lillibridge back up and leading off. And we don't have many prospects at all. Compared to the big market teams that have the resources (Boston and Yankees especially), our farm system is pathetic compared to theirs.

[knightni]

the best case scenario would be if Flowers lights it up in the Spring and forces KW's hand.

[iWiN4PreP]

And we don't have many prospects at all. Compared to the big market teams that have the resources (Boston and Yankees especially), our farm system is pathetic compared to theirs.

 

We have enough to make a trade happen if we are desperate....

 

I am just not one to say "Lets sign thome" just to be better then the other problems.

 

I don't like the take your pick of problem situation 1, or problem situation 2. Let's let the season work and see how this team goes with the rotating DH, if its an obvious problem, and our teams in decent contention (which it should be, we have room to find out), then we will most likely see a trade happen.

[MattZakrowski]

Fire Ozzie Guillen! I get it, he had a tremendous team handed to him in 2005, and good teams handed to him in 2006 and 2008, but he's a terrible manager. In his time with the White Sox, he has started and led off Dwayne Wise, benched Nick Swisher for old Ken Griffey Jr. and placed Scott Linebrink and Mike MacDougal in too many high leverage situations to count. Now he has decided that old Andruw Jones and MARK EFFING KOTSAY would make a better DH than Jim 'led the White Sox in OPS/EQA/wOBA' Thome. I have to partially blame KW for that last one, but KW has been a good, sometimes great GM, who is for whatever reason listening to his stupid ass, giving him the inferior team he claims to want. You want an NL style team? Go to the effing National League! You know what team is a national league style team? The Pirates. Go manage them. We play in US Cellular Field! You have to hit home runs to win at US Cellular Field! I mean seriously, give me something real and quantifiable that Guillen does well, because I'm tired of this bs off-season.

[iWiN4PreP]

Fire Ozzie Guillen! I get it, he had a tremendous team handed to him in 2005, and good teams handed to him in 2006 and 2008, but he's a terrible manager. In his time with the White Sox, he has started and led off Dwayne Wise, benched Nick Swisher for old Ken Griffey Jr. and placed Scott Linebrink and Mike MacDougal in too many high leverage situations to count. Now he has decided that old Andruw Jones and MARK EFFING KOTSAY would make a better DH than Jim 'led the White Sox in OPS/EQA/wOBA' Thome. I have to partially blame KW for that last one, but KW has been a good, sometimes great GM, who is for whatever reason listening to his stupid ass, giving him the inferior team he claims to want. You want an NL style team? Go to the effing National League! You know what team is a national league style team? The Pirates. Go manage them. We play in US Cellular Field! You have to hit home runs to win at US Cellular Field! I mean seriously, give me something real and quantifiable that Guillen does well, because I'm tired of this bs off-season.

 

I will say - if this DH thing fails this year, he should certainly be on the red hot seat. But, currently, he is the manager, I want to see what he knows more then apparently us...

[Melissa1334]

Guillen said the Sox haven't ruled out bringing back Thome if they have a need for a left-hander power hitter later this season if he's available.