The Jim Thome Saga Ends

[Dick Allen]

Thome as a full time DH isnt the answer for this team. He showed signs of breaking down last year and the organization knows that. For the first time in years he put up a sub .800 OPS in the second half of the season and is almsot 40 years old with a bad back and high maintenance swing.

I think they easily could have penciled Thome is for the DH ABs vs RHP. I just don't think there is any chance the White Sox don't have injury issues with Kotsay/Jones/Quentin, even Vizquel if he plays very often. After all, he's 43.

 

I think this was a cheap way to effectively improve the offense. They passed, but they will eventually have to do something about it. I just hope they do something about it before it costs them games.

[Kalapse]

Really? When and why did they do that?

Because it was a stupid rule. I think it was some time in the last year or so maybe 2 years, not sure

[iamshack]

The funny thing about all of this is that we supposedly continue to try and model our team after the Twins, while they continue to sign our castoffs.

[qwerty]

Because it was as stupid rule. I think it was some time in the last year or so maybe 2 years, not sure

 

It was in 2006 already now.

[whitem0nkey]

yep, first Joe Crede and now Thome. were doomed.

 

 

 

DOOMED!!

 

 

Meh, Thome, is not good enough to be on this team, rotating DH whatever.

 

And I love everything he did for the sox while he played with us, nothing but love for those year, and best of luck to him.

[elgonzo4sox]

I have to say, I am going to smile the first time when I see Alexei move over to the right of second and Beckham back up into short right field to play a Thome shift...

 

[ThunderBolt]

LOL, for them. Where is he going to get at bats? They already have a superior LH DH in Kubel and need to give Cudyer and Mauer at bats as DH to keep them healthy. Its such a non story its not even funny. I'll appreciate when Thornton blows him away with high heat however.

I'd be interesting in knowing what exactly Thome did to each of your family pets. You seem to have an undeserved amount of hatred for a guy who still has something left that he's going to offer to the Twins instead of the Sox. I think you're one of the best damn posters on this board, but i'm not reading you right on this one.

[caulfield12]

What I'm not understanding is why is Thome such a big risk now when he was a much bigger risk in 2006 coming off injury and with a significantly larger contract, despite the subsidy/offwrite from Pat Gillick?

 

He was in his mid 30's then, still well past the age that hitters start to decline significantly.

 

So now spending $1.5-2.0 million is suddenly a huge risk when they spent 5-6X that on Big Jim last year? I don't get it.

 

Once again, if they'd done ANYTHING to shore up the position, this wouldn't be an issue. And in fact, they have. Andruw Jones could take those at-bats against lefties.

 

It just doesn't have any logic when we play 81 games at USCF.

 

The Twins are a better team with Jim Thome and we are worse without him (and no suitable replacement), pure and simple.

 

 

[Princess Dye]

The Twins are a better team with Jim Thome and we are worse without him (and no suitable replacement), pure and simple.

 

So there's no chance he drops off at age 39? Heck, last year was a decline in OPS from anything he's ever had in a full year.

[caulfield12]

So there's no chance he drops off at age 39? Heck, last year was a decline in OPS from anything he's ever had in a full year.

 

 

Sure, there's a chance, but what's the risk?

 

How is it any riskier than gambling on at least five hitters (and Greg Walker, by extension) to elevate their games?

 

As has been noted ad infinitum, Kotsay/Jones/Pierre have also seemed to be on the downside from their peaks as well. I won't even go into Omar Vizquel at this point as an offensive "force."

 

I'm just hoping the "coaching/mentoring" value of Vizquel to Beckham/Ramirez/Teahen is worth the roster spot. Because we've seen the results of those "Camp Coras" and Ozzie's bunting/fundamentals clinics and how lasting the effects are on the team.

 

 

[dmbjeff]

What I'm not understanding is why is Thome such a big risk now when he was a much bigger risk in 2006 coming off injury and with a significantly larger contract, despite the subsidy/offwrite from Pat Gillick?

 

He was in his mid 30's then, still well past the age that hitters start to decline significantly.

 

So now spending $1.5-2.0 million is suddenly a huge risk when they spent 5-6X that on Big Jim last year? I don't get it.

 

Once again, if they'd done ANYTHING to shore up the position, this wouldn't be an issue. And in fact, they have. Andruw Jones could take those at-bats against lefties.

 

It just doesn't have any logic when we play 81 games at USCF.

 

The Twins are a better team with Jim Thome and we are worse without him (and no suitable replacement), pure and simple.

 

You are exactly right caulfield. To suggest that Kotsay is a better hitter vs RHP than Thome is, it's just wrong. I can't believe KW is letting this happen. It's not just because it is the great Jim Thome. It could be anyone who would be a suitable replacement at DH. Unless we somehow come up with a better option, this will hang over this teams head the whole first half until they realize their faults and have to trade for someone else.

[The Ginger Kid]

Smart move by the twinkies - big name to boost the opening of a new stadium. Time to root against Thome again. Man...it's been awhile!

[dmbjeff]

they need to go get Branyan and have him hit the righties, he posted a .905 OPS vs righties last year, while playing half his games in a very spacious park. the guy needs a job. Kotsay can't be the starting DH vs RHP, he just can't.

[PeavyTime]

Smart move by the twinkies - big name to boost the opening of a new stadium. Time to root against Thome again. Man...it's been awhile!

 

Dude are you serious with this line?

[The Ginger Kid]

Dude are you serious with this line?

why indeed I am, sir. It only adds to the excitement of a new stadium, the team adding some serious pop to the lineup. Or did I miss the point and you're saying that Thome's not a big name?

[caulfield12]

Having Thome around definitely will never HURT a team.

 

As everyone knows, he's one of the most respected and liked players in all of baseball. Whether it will sell any more season tickets, probably not many.

 

Just like having Andruw Jones and Omar Vizquel around hasn't caused anyone to break out the checkbook for Sox tix. Vizquel will be in the HOF and Jones was clearly headed there until he fell off a cliff 3-4 seasons ago. When you start seeing Jones/Vizquel White Sox jerseys or Thome "Twins" jerseys, then you would have to acknowledge they're making an impact.

 

90% of opening any new stadium is the stadium itself, and even the weather won't deter fans this year. With Mauer and Morneau, they already have two big superstars to market. That's all they need, really.

 

Edited January 27, 2010 by caulfield12

[greg775]

Meh, Thome, is not good enough to be on this team, rotating DH whatever.

 

I just don't agree with this if you are saying Kotsay and Jones and Omar ARE good enough to be on this team.

WTF?

Jimmy I think can still hit righty pitching. I hope our righties own him. What's the over/under on how many dingers he hits against Cliff and Freddy.

Hopefully Peavy is nasty enough to retire him.

[greg775]

It's hard to believe that the Sox have absolutely no power whatsoever from the left hand side of the plate. None. Nobody in the pool of A.J., Teahen, Kotsay, Pierre, or Vizquel has ever reached the 20 homerun plateau, or even sniffed 90 RBIs. You combine that with the question marks still hanging over the heads of Messrs. Quentin and Rios in terms of what we can expect from the right side of the plate this year, and we could find ourselves squandering a lot of good pitching efforts this year. Kind of scary, if you think about it.

 

These well written glass half empty threads scare me.

I'm trying to remain optimistic.

I'm pretty convinced our offense will be average at best.

However our starting pitching is wonderful. My question to you all is ... objectively speaking, how will our defense be??? That is pivotal to go with our starting pitching and decent relief corps (decent if our starters can go 7 full innings much of the time.

[The Ginger Kid]

i think the D will benefit by a full season of strength up the middle. People will still run wild on Floyd and Garcia, though. Don't know much about Peavy's move to first.

[The Critic]

Smart move by the twinkies - big name to boost the opening of a new stadium. Time to root against Thome again. Man...it's been awhile!

I can't cheer against him anymore. He's probably my favorite Sox player ever.

I was hoping he wouldn't sign with a Central Division team. I just have to hope he's never in a position to hurt the Sox.

[Springfield Soxfan]

These well written glass half empty threads scare me.

I'm trying to remain optimistic.

I'm pretty convinced our offense will be average at best.

However our starting pitching is wonderful. My question to you all is ... objectively speaking, how will our defense be??? That is pivotal to go with our starting pitching and decent relief corps (decent if our starters can go 7 full innings much of the time.

Agreed, there is a lot to be optimistic about on this team even if we are having a debate about the DH. I think Tehean's left handed bat is a huge plus this year and the d is much better.

[iWiN4PreP]

No idea why the twins would want Thome, I just cant understand it..

 

 

[Balta1701]

they need to go get Branyan and have him hit the righties, he posted a .905 OPS vs righties last year, while playing half his games in a very spacious park. the guy needs a job. Kotsay can't be the starting DH vs RHP, he just can't.

The question with Branyan is his back. If anyone thought he was healthy I'm 95% sure he'd have been signed by now.

[Balta1701]

Because I saw him hit in the first half? Also, maybe playing less in the field and spending more time at DH would be good for his legs...which means better strength at the plate? What's the rules though on signing someone you didn't offer arbitration to? Also, how do we know this doesn't mean Carl or Robbie aren't coming back?

Dye is simply a terrible fit for what our lineup could use right now. We have a ton of OF depth and a ton of guys who can hit with power from the RH side. We're limited on IF depth, guys who can hit LH, and guys who take a lot of BB's. JD just doesn't fit.

[caulfield12]

No, Jim Thome isn't the answer at second base or third base -- and, in fact, he isn't likely to see the field at all with the Twins.

 

But when you can add a scary good Hall of Fame bat that gives Gardy a Plan B lineup or game-changing option on the bench, it's a deal too good to be passed up. Having Thome sitting on the bench will change the way an opposing manager views his bullpen when it comes to facing Mauer, Morneau and Kubel. Bring in your lefty to face pinch-hitting Thome in the seventh and you don't have him available in the ninth when the big guys come to bat.

 

Give Delmon Young a day (or week) off in the outfield and you can have a lineup that goes: Span, cf; Mauer, c; Morneau, 1b; Thome, dh; Cuddyer, rf; Kubel, lf; Hardy, ss; Harris, 3b; Punto, 2b.

 

I'll start that one against Zack Greinke or Justin Verlander five times a year.

 

You knew that Thome had a higher on-base percentage against right-handers last season than Morneau, right? So even if the 39-year-old Thome slips a bit in 2010, he has a long way to slide before he becomes Ruben Sierra or Bret BOOne.

 

On XM's baseball channel, in the hours after the trade, one of the chatterers was saying that he thought Thome was a wretched fit for the Twins because of the players they already have. I guess sending Matt Tolbert or Jason Pridie up to pinch hit late in the game seems acceptable to someone who doesn't have to watch it happen in real time. Jim Bowden, the former Cincinnati and Washington general manager, smoked that argument by pointing out that Thome provides depth in case anything happens to Cuddyer, Morneau, Young or even (for a short period of time) Span.

 

Injuries happen. Slumps happen.

 

I can see Thome getting 300 at-bats even if everyone stays healthy and someone (Delmon) doesn't play himself into a reserve role. If injuries happen -- see Morneau and Span, 2009; Cuddyer, 2008 -- Thome could get a regular's haul of plate appearances.

 

Last year, even though Gardy basically had four outfielders for three spots, he was hard pressed for much of the season to have three highly functioning ones because Carlos Gomez regressed and Delmon didn't get it together until near season's end. The DH options weren't the greatest when Kubel played in the field.

 

In 2010, Gardy won't be shy about going Kubel-Span-Cuddyer if Delmon struggles.

 

If anyone wants to wager, I'll bet Thome gets more starts against right-handers in 2010 than Delmon. You can book the bet with me from noon to 1 p.m. Saturday during TwinsFest, when I'll be at the Star Tribune booth, talking baseball and (I'm told) giving away root beer-flavored lip balm.

 

I like root beer and I'm OK with lip balm. But I think getting Thome is a better deal.

 

Minneapolis Star-Tribune Sports

 

 

"I think the Twins showed the most interest; that's what really caught my eye," Thome said. "They were really excited about me coming there, so to me, it was a no-brainer. I've always enjoyed the way they played, the way they go about their business, so to be a part of that will be a lot of fun."

 

Thome's incentives kick in with 250 plate appearances, and he will collect all $750,000 if he reaches 500.

 

The signing could reduce left fielder Delmon Young's playing time. Kubel, who wants to play the outfield more, could move to left field, with Thome moving into the DH spot, especially against righthanders.

 

"A guy like Jim, he's not going to just come off the bench," Gardenhire said. "We'll get plenty of at-bats for him. Kubel's my DH, and Delmon's my left fielder, and we all know that going into it, and Jim's going to play a role off the bench and spot play at DH."

Edited January 27, 2010 by caulfield12