Balta1701 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Aug 2, 2012 -> 04:58 PM) What product, outside of the iPod Touch, has been completely new that we've never seen before? And just to be clear, I'm not talking about stuff from way back in the day when it was run with Woz at the helm. I mean in the new age of portable technology. The reason the iPod took off was the interface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 2, 2012 -> 03:56 PM) They are now, but iTunes purchases were DRM'd for iTunes and Apple devices for a LONG time. Oh I see. Well Playsforsure was compatible with...... AOL MusicNow Yahoo! Music Unlimited Spiralfrog MTV URGE MSN Music Musicmatch Jukebox Wal-Mart Music Downloads Ruckus Network PassAlong Networks Rhapsody iMesh BearShare So there were definitely alternatives for those who wanted to purchase music legally, although back then it was mostly just ripping CD's you had bought. Digital music wasn't that popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 2, 2012 -> 03:59 PM) The reason the iPod took off was the interface. An interface that Creative was already using, and sued Apple for infringement of, unless Apple decided to just pay them a large sum of money to just let forget about it. http://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2006/05/6838-2/ Edited August 2, 2012 by JoeCoolMan24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 2, 2012 Author Share Posted August 2, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Aug 2, 2012 -> 02:58 PM) What product, outside of the iPod Touch, has been completely new that we've never seen before? And just to be clear, I'm not talking about stuff from way back in the day when it was run with Woz at the helm. I mean in the new age of portable technology. Innovation isn't just a matter of "inventing" something never seen or heard of before. A lot of it involves taking a product that is good in concept, but poor in execution, and improving about that execution so that the product realizes the potential of the concept. The iPod was a prime example of that, as was the iPhone, the all-in-one iMac, the iPad, as well as many of their software applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 2, 2012 -> 04:07 PM) Innovation isn't just a matter of "inventing" something never seen or heard of before. A lot of it involves taking a product that is good in concept, but poor in execution, and improving about that execution so that the product realizes the potential of the concept. The iPod was a prime example of that, as was the iPhone, the all-in-one iMac, the iPad, as well as many of their software applications. How did the iPod improve upon what Creative was already doing? I mean, they stole their interface, and Creative products STILL had more features to it, plus it allowed for drag-and-drop, as well as providing it's own software similar to iTunes (minus the store). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 2, 2012 Author Share Posted August 2, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Aug 2, 2012 -> 04:10 PM) How did the iPod improve upon what Creative was already doing? I mean, they stole their interface, and Creative products STILL had more features to it, plus it allowed for drag-and-drop, as well as providing it's own software similar to iTunes (minus the store). The circular "wheel" was a HUGE improvement on all other mp3 players because it allowed you to scroll through massive quantities of music in relatively short order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 2, 2012 -> 04:12 PM) The circular "wheel" was a HUGE improvement on all other mp3 players because it allowed you to scroll through massive quantities of music in relatively short order. I preferred the Creative Touch's thumb pad to a giant scroll wheel. It also allowed for quick scrolling. But yeah, that's really the only difference I saw from their product versus others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 2, 2012 -> 03:30 PM) Part of making a product successful is getting people to buy it. It also helped that it was a very good mp3 player. Those mp3 cd players were garbage. There are a million products that may be good but don't take off, and those companies have no one to blame but themselves. Apple was not a major player in the early 00s. The imac was kinda getting more popular. Ipod took off because it was a really good product. If you would have made a bet it 00 on who would make the next big music device, i would have probably bet sony. Network effects have also been huge for Apple. Being able to plug your phone or mp3 player into numerous devices in the home and car and get direct control is something only available on an iPhone/Pod/Pad because it's the only thing worth dedicating the resources to develop for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Aug 2, 2012 -> 03:48 PM) The only product Apple ever made that stood out to me as being really cool and different from what I had seen elsewhere, was the iPod Touch. At the time, I wasn't aware of any other completely touch screen mp3 players that had a bunch of games and apps on them. THAT was cool. Everything else they have made I have said "ok, and why is that any different or better than anything else already out there?". I don't see them as an innovative company at all. They just take things that already exist, and slap their logo on them and people freak out, piss themselves, and wait in line for days to buy it for 2x the price of similar items that already exist. I'm not a fan of Apple. I despise their philosophies on the openness of software and I think their products are often overrated. But that doesn't mean they don't make good products or products that are innovative. iTunes and iPod gave a huge boost to digital music and its distribution. Sure, you can say the piracy of music was prominent far before iPods even existed, but let's face it, without a popular device and software that was easy enough for the average person to use, digital music would not have spread as fast as it did. The iPhone is arguably one of the greatest electronic devices in the past decade. It was the first of its kind to the market. The first to truly open up the mobile ecosystem. It was innovative, to say the least. However, Apple's software policies and its limitations on what people can do with their hardware and software has, in my opinion, hindered their ability to innovate in the past few years. iOS isn't that much different than what we saw 5 years ago, when it was first released. The UI doesn't give enough flexibility to users to make it seem fresh or different either. The only solution to this is jailbreaking and even then, it's hard to make iOS look exactly how you want it to look (no, Dreamboard themes are not good enough). You can say that Apple lacks morals and overcharges for their products. But you really cannot say that the products they've made have never been innovative. Because the truth is, they have been. Apple wasn't always popular. In fact, they were close to going into the red in the late 90s. They needed to make products that were innovative and good in order to get back to profitability. It isn't all marketing or brainwashing. A lot of it had to do with the fact that the products they made were good and innovative. That brings us to your other point. Are Apple devices just a symbol for people to flaunt? I think the answer is yes. They're so popular now and they're not cheap. A lot of people like to show off that they have Apple products and that's just the way it is. So in that respect, you have a point. Slap an Apple logo on something and people will like it and buy it. But it wasn't always that way and that's not the only reason people buy Apple products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 2, 2012 -> 04:20 PM) Network effects have also been huge for Apple. Being able to plug your phone or mp3 player into numerous devices in the home and car and get direct control is something only available on an iPhone/Pod/Pad because it's the only thing worth dedicating the resources to develop for. Yeah, that's the only thing I missed about my past devices, the lack of tons of accessories for it. I mean, they have them, but they are all made by the company, and are expensive, whereas tons of 3rd party companies make Apple devices, and the prices go down. It's the only thing I miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) Just to reiterate as I did months ago when we had a similar conversation, I have NEVER said Apple products weren't good. My point has been I don't see why they are BETTER than alternatives at cheaper prices. Outside of the iTouch, I've never seen a product of theirs that I haven't been able to find an alternative to that was just as good, and cheaper. Apple makes very solid products. I would never expect them to make a bad one. However, I DO NOT think any of them justify their price, or are good enough to ignore anything else that's out there. EDIT: Actually, I DO think that the Shuffle is absolutely laughable. I'm sure it works perfectly, but the idea of it is so silly that I find it asinine. So I guess you could argue I don't think it's very good, because of it's design. Edited August 2, 2012 by JoeCoolMan24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Aug 2, 2012 -> 09:30 PM) Apple makes very solid products. I would never expect them to make a bad one. That creates brand loyalty. Most people don't understand specs. They just want the product to work and work well, and if they've had good experiences with apple, it's snowballed. But it's really hard to innovate. I have a hard time believing this next decade will be anywhere close to the previous. It's very possible by the end of this decade, apple will have as bad a reputation as microsoft does now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Now being cool next year will only cost you $800-$900! http://www.digitalspy.com/tech/news/a39694...itter-fury.html And then add on the price to re-purchase all those accessories that will no longer be compatible with the new connection size. Let's see if this is all just a rumor or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 we have no previous examples of fake rumors about upcoming apple products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 2, 2012 Author Share Posted August 2, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Aug 2, 2012 -> 04:54 PM) Now being cool next year will only cost you $800-$900! http://www.digitalspy.com/tech/news/a39694...itter-fury.html And then add on the price to re-purchase all those accessories that will no longer be compatible with the new connection size. Let's see if this is all just a rumor or not. Honestly, how is it being cool when so many people have them now? When I think of someone as being cool, it's because they make their own choices for their own reasons, have their own sense of style, etc. Your cell phone is one of the most practical devices one can own, and thus, I choose the device that happens to be the easiest for me to understand and use. That is why I choose it. It isn't a suit or a sports car. It is something that I am using in one way or the other all day, every day, and it is usually kept in my pocket (where no one can see it). You are a college student, so I understand what your perspective is and what your life is like. But keep in mind, that is not everyone else's perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 2, 2012 -> 05:15 PM) Honestly, how is it being cool when so many people have them now? When I think of someone as being cool, it's because they make their own choices for their own reasons, have their own sense of style, etc. Your cell phone is one of the most practical devices one can own, and thus, I choose the device that happens to be the easiest for me to understand and use. That is why I choose it. It isn't a suit or a sports car. It is something that I am using in one way or the other all day, every day, and it is usually kept in my pocket (where no one can see it). You are a college student, so I understand what your perspective is and what your life is like. But keep in mind, that is not everyone else's perspective. iPhones are probably the most obvious device of people trying to have a certain image that I can think of. Yeah, driving around a BMW or Mercedes does it too, but the cheaper way to look cool is to get an iPhone. It's the epitome me, "everyone else has one, I need to one too!". There are some people out there that would love a $800 price tag, that way it can be more exclusive and people will know you must have a lot of money if you can afford to get one. Suuuuuuch a status symbol and fashion accessory, it's sickening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 2, 2012 Author Share Posted August 2, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Aug 2, 2012 -> 05:31 PM) iPhones are probably the most obvious device of people trying to have a certain image that I can think of. Yeah, driving around a BMW or Mercedes does it too, but the cheaper way to look cool is to get an iPhone. It's the epitome me, "everyone else has one, I need to one too!". There are some people out there that would love a $800 price tag, that way it can be more exclusive and people will know you must have a lot of money if you can afford to get one. Suuuuuuch a status symbol and fashion accessory, it's sickening. Again, I think maybe in college that is the case... Not so in the professional world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Aug 2, 2012 -> 05:31 PM) iPhones are probably the most obvious device of people trying to have a certain image that I can think of. Yeah, driving around a BMW or Mercedes does it too, but the cheaper way to look cool is to get an iPhone. It's the epitome me, "everyone else has one, I need to one too!". There are some people out there that would love a $800 price tag, that way it can be more exclusive and people will know you must have a lot of money if you can afford to get one. Suuuuuuch a status symbol and fashion accessory, it's sickening. I actually had a whole post written out...but decided to delete it...because why bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Aug 2, 2012 -> 05:31 PM) iPhones are probably the most obvious device of people trying to have a certain image that I can think of. Yeah, driving around a BMW or Mercedes does it too, but the cheaper way to look cool is to get an iPhone. It's the epitome me, "everyone else has one, I need to one too!". There are some people out there that would love a $800 price tag, that way it can be more exclusive and people will know you must have a lot of money if you can afford to get one. Suuuuuuch a status symbol and fashion accessory, it's sickening. Unlocked iPhones do cost $800...lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 2, 2012 -> 06:37 PM) Unlocked iPhones do cost $800...lol. That's an advantage when you upgrade. It's nice being able to sell my 2 year old device for 200-400$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 2, 2012 -> 06:38 PM) That's an advantage when you upgrade. It's nice being able to sell my 2 year old device for 200-400$. That's the re-sale value for most smart phones now anyways. Apple's really set the bar for carrier subsidies. New unlocked Android phones come out costing $600-$700 as well. I sold my Nexus S for $300 and that's almost a 2 year old phone. Granted, I hadn't used it for two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 2, 2012 -> 06:43 PM) That's the re-sale value for most smart phones now anyways. Apple's really set the bar for carrier subsidies. New unlocked Android phones come out costing $600-$700 as well. I sold my Nexus S for $300 and that's almost a 2 year old phone. Granted, I hadn't used it for two years. No, that's not the re-sale value for most smart phones. Maybe new ones. Like a Galaxy S2 that's less than a year old. But you can get that much for a iPhone 3gs or a 4. Not a 4s. A 4. There are used Nexus S phones going for 20$ on ebay right now, with 100$ buyouts. Edited August 2, 2012 by Y2HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 2, 2012 -> 06:43 PM) No, that's not the re-sale value for most smart phones. Maybe new ones. Like a Galaxy S2 that's less than a year old. But you can get that much for a iPhone 3gs or a 4. Not a 4s. A 4. http://www.ebay.com/ctg/Samsung-Google-Nex...mpt=Cell_Phones Say what? Looks like used for $200+. Edited August 2, 2012 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 2, 2012 -> 06:46 PM) http://www.ebay.com/ctg/Samsung-Google-Nex...mpt=Cell_Phones Say what? Looks like used for $200+. http://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-Samsung-Googl...5#ht_500wt_1100 Sorry. Oh, and you asked say what? What. Owned. Edited August 2, 2012 by Y2HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 2, 2012 -> 06:47 PM) http://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-Samsung-Googl...5#ht_500wt_1100 Sorry. Oh, and you asked say what? What. Owned. You do know CDMA phones cost substantially less unlocked than GSM ones right? You also forgot to mention that the glass is cracked on that one. Spoke too early. Edited August 2, 2012 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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