Technology catch-all thread

[Capn12]

On another note....good lord, are people seriously paying $90 for the iPad case on eBay? Really? I mean, its not even that great of a 'protective' case...

 

I'm trying to find some sort of semi-stable case for the thing, before leaving for Vegas on June 22nd, and my area of the country just has nothing available.

[iamshack]

On another note....good lord, are people seriously paying $90 for the iPad case on eBay? Really? I mean, its not even that great of a 'protective' case...

 

I'm trying to find some sort of semi-stable case for the thing, before leaving for Vegas on June 22nd, and my area of the country just has nothing available.

I have the one Apple marketed at launch. It was $40 and I'll tell you a ripoff at that. But it does work nicely and protect the device well, which in the end, I guess is all I could have hoped for. But the thing is not worth anymore than $15 - 20 in my opinion.

[Steve9347]

wow

Edited June 3, 2010 by Steve9347

[iamshack]

No, ATT paid a huge amount of money for exclusive rights to a product. There is nothing about there network that is superior to the other providers. Just one in a list of problems is the fact that they are over-capacity due to the Iphone, but other networks have more bandwith to handle it.

No, I'm certainly not claiming their network is superior in any way.

 

But to argue that they somehow are in trouble because their business plan succeeded more quickly than anyone might have predicted is silly. I don't think being overly successful is really going to kill them.

[Chisoxfn]

No, I'm certainly not claiming their network is superior in any way.

 

But to argue that they somehow are in trouble because their business plan succeeded more quickly than anyone might have predicted is silly. I don't think being overly successful is really going to kill them.

ATT? Or Apple?

r

I don't necessarily think ATT's business plan has been overly successful. I think they currently have a network that can't handle the number of customers they have, but clearly they have to be happy with the # of customers they have. That said, there plan was an epic failure because they are getting hit wtih tons of negative PR and have generally a very bad public image. That isn't a good thing for the long-term continuance of your business, especially when your size is pretty reliant on an exclusive right agreement that will be ending in the foreseeable future.

[Chisoxfn]

I did a little reading on the difference between CDMA and GSM and I haven't seen anything that really puts one or the other as being significantly better. Basically it seems like the USA has more CDMA than GSM and that for a while the US was primarily CDMA. Europe is primarily GDMA and than Asia is a mixed bag (CDMA & GSM). I don't know much about the Latin/African countries as neither appear to be on the cutting edge when it comes to cellular technology.

 

I did read a few things that indicate CDMA has more long-term capabilities when it comes to download/upload speeds and that the big difference in the new networks Verizon/Sprint are rolling out is that the upload/download speeds will be much more real time as currently there is a lag on all of the providers prior to connecting (CDMA & GSM). Many more differences than that, but that appears to be one of the bigger differences.

 

GSM has an international backing, but it appears in the world, CDMA is gaining some popularity. CDMA's upload speeds have real life possibilities of 700kbps per second to 384 for GSM.

 

Basically put, GSM has more international pull, primarily due to the European Union making it the standard in Europe. CDMA has some real nice capabilities. Technically speaking, CDMA is a bit better, but from a data network standpoint, GSM wins because with a GSM phone you'll get more coverage WORLDWIDE.

[lostfan]

Wow, if you ever wanted to kill any desire I had to own an Apple product, this is the way to do it. Good work AT&T.

I don't really disagree with this - what this means is that AT&T can charge like $10 less to the average customer for a data plan and make the power users charge more, which means that everyone else doesn't subsidize a handful of people's data usage/pay for bandwidth they don't really need. So AT&T loses some profits short-term and might piss off a few people, but long-term they have more control over their network and who does what on it.

 

I know AT&T's taken a lot of heat for its s***ty network, a lot of it deserved, but really what carrier wouldn't have had at least a few problems once they add the explosion of new iPhone users onto their network? They would've been frantically trying to keep up with the increase in data usage, too.

[lostfan]

Their 3G growth was exponentially faster than they thought it would be. CDMA's "3G" technology is really something that has been around a bit longer and didnt require the advances that GSM's did for rollout. Their "distressed" network is simply a lack of 3G coverage in certain areas which is overloading some of the towers which have to stream the data back to the sources. This wont be an issue for long as this has been ATT's push for over a year. In fact in Chicago, its made some major strides. Of course like I said before, CDMA devices interfere with GSM calls, so in large cities, more CDMA makes it harder for GSM devices to work properly.

 

But clearly ATT has had superior devices, both on blackberries and now the Iphone.

They just weren't ready for it. But who was?

[lostfan]

That might change a bit. ATT more than any other provider is so reliant on a 3rd party provider. Yes, they all rely on the LG's/Blackberry/etcs of the wrold, but ATT is the only one with this huge exclusive rights deal that they rely on for a major chunk of their business (and the Iphone business tends to be there biggest $ maker as the smartphone segment has much higher profit margins).

 

The Android base is growing significantly and most of the good Android based phones are being released on the CDMA platforms and quite frankly if I was going to get behind a company during a war, I'd get behind Google. They should see an extraordinary market share gain as they continue to gain notoriety on the Verizon and Sprint networks, not to mention the new 4G phones being releasd by Verizon/Sprint appear to be incredible phones. Iphones are also incredible but more and more phones are capable of doing what an iphone can do at a lesser smart with more carrier flexibility.

 

I also am not completely convinced that ATT has the best Blackberry phone. All of the BB phones with the exception of the storm appear to be kind of similar (from a general consumers standpoint). The big difference is on when the most recent model was released on each carrier, but be it a curve/tour/bold/etc they all tend to be similar. Only question is whether you need a world wide phone or not and than if you wnat a touch form (see storm).

 

The European countries have some badass technology so I'd be really curious to see how that market does. I also am not sure who streams more...US or other countries. I know the rest of the world texts more than the US (albeit US texts a lot more than we used to), but I see us as being larger data hogs for some reason (complete guess though as I haven't looked into that).

Google is just... well... it's kind of hard to overstate how much s*** Google's managed to accomplish in the last few years. They aren't intimidated by anyone, and when they decide to pick fights, let's just say they have an impressive W-L record. For now, Apple's products are superior, but anyone from Apple that tells you they aren't at least a little worried that Google is trying to get in on their slice of the pie would just be lying.

[iamshack]

ATT? Or Apple?

r

I don't necessarily think ATT's business plan has been overly successful. I think they currently have a network that can't handle the number of customers they have, but clearly they have to be happy with the # of customers they have. That said, there plan was an epic failure because they are getting hit wtih tons of negative PR and have generally a very bad public image. That isn't a good thing for the long-term continuance of your business, especially when your size is pretty reliant on an exclusive right agreement that will be ending in the foreseeable future.

Hmm, I think maybe you're seeing it that way through your yellow and black sprint-colored glasses.

 

I know they take some flak because they have been the exclusive provider for the iPhone for the last 4 years or so, but there isn't much they can do about that.

 

I also understand their network has been pushed a bit because of the wild success of the iPhone, but I wouldn't say they are "getting hit with tons of negative PR," or that their plan has been an "epic failure."

 

Do you really think Verizon would be spending the amount of money fighting them through their ad campaign if they thought AT&T's plan was an "epic failure"?

 

I agree with you that they were caught off-guard by the huge amounts of data that the iPhone users are consuming, but to say that paying $ for an exclusive contract for one of the most successful products of the 21st century and having more users than you anticipated, to the point that it is straining your infrastructure - to say that is a failure - that seems to be a bit inaccurate to me.

 

I guess what matters now though is how they capitalize on their position in the marketplace going forward. Because you're right, the exclusivity contract will end sooner or later (2012?).

[Chisoxfn]

Hmm, I think maybe you're seeing it that way through your yellow and black sprint-colored glasses.

 

I know they take some flak because they have been the exclusive provider for the iPhone for the last 4 years or so, but there isn't much they can do about that.

 

I also understand their network has been pushed a bit because of the wild success of the iPhone, but I wouldn't say they are "getting hit with tons of negative PR," or that their plan has been an "epic failure."

 

Do you really think Verizon would be spending the amount of money fighting them through their ad campaign if they thought AT&T's plan was an "epic failure"?

 

I agree with you that they were caught off-guard by the huge amounts of data that the iPhone users are consuming, but to say that paying $ for an exclusive contract for one of the most successful products of the 21st century and having more users than you anticipated, to the point that it is straining your infrastructure - to say that is a failure - that seems to be a bit inaccurate to me.

 

I guess what matters now though is how they capitalize on their position in the marketplace going forward. Because you're right, the exclusivity contract will end sooner or later (2012?).

ATT was the one who had there ad campaigns launched against Verizon (who I personally think is the best network around...pound for pound). And in terms of negative PR, I might be a little biased because I work really closely with a lot of IT types (who are huge Apple fan boys) but won't thing they won't ever quit jabbering about is how weak ATT's network is and everything along those lines. Same with my casual friends. Pretty much all of us, including those that have iphones, are pretty willing to admit it and this trend isn't just in my little click of friends and it is why ATT has begun advertising significantly about there coverage maps with the guy from Old School (not Jason Lee but the other one).

[Capn12]

(Luke Wilson)

[lostfan]

The AT&T vs. Verizon ads are completely meaningless for most people. AT&T's claim to be the fastest 3G network might technically be true but their actual data rates aren't much different from anyone else's in practice when you live in a densely populated area and there are a lot of others on the network at the same time. Verizon's map where they show all the holes in AT&T's map doesn't mean anything either, AT&T might not have the whole country covered but they have the metro areas covered, where almost everyone actually lives. So unless you travel a lot, and not "living in Chicago and flying to Dallas for business" type traveling but "driving to rural Nebraska" type traveling, what does that even matter?

[RockRaines]

Love the direction this thread has gone.

 

As for Google vs Apple in the mobile phone world. I have worked on the droid from moto, the droid incredible and the iphone, and IMO the iphone is ridiculously superior. I do like that the competition will drive Apple to innovated faster, but honestly the droid wont be anything more than an iphone alternative.

 

Gage-GSM is about 85% of the world's cell phone market according to the sources I saw, I am not sure what the GDMA is that you cited, can you point me there? I love learning about this s***.

 

The best news for all of us in this is that as consumers we have very very large companies vying for an ever expanding turf. It can only mean good things for us as far as innovation. Several years ago Verizon was absolute s***, I chose Sprint and Tmobile over them because they were so terrible. Now Verizon has the rep of reliable while others have fallen behind. If Spring somehow masters the VOIP thing and lets us not only work with a large network, but also tap into large WiMax or Wireless networks, we then have an entirely new leader.

[lostfan]

Love the direction this thread has gone.

 

As for Google vs Apple in the mobile phone world. I have worked on the droid from moto, the droid incredible and the iphone, and IMO the iphone is ridiculously superior. I do like that the competition will drive Apple to innovated faster, but honestly the droid wont be anything more than an iphone alternative.

 

Gage-GSM is about 85% of the world's cell phone market according to the sources I saw, I am not sure what the GDMA is that you cited, can you point me there? I love learning about this s***.

 

The best news for all of us in this is that as consumers we have very very large companies vying for an ever expanding turf. It can only mean good things for us as far as innovation. Several years ago Verizon was absolute s***, I chose Sprint and Tmobile over them because they were so terrible. Now Verizon has the rep of reliable while others have fallen behind. If Spring somehow masters the VOIP thing and lets us not only work with a large network, but also tap into large WiMax or Wireless networks, we then have an entirely new leader.

Regardless of whether Google ever actually catches Apple in mobile phones - they might, they might not - Google isn't one of those companies you just brush to the side and declare superiority over. If you are running a company like Apple, you either already know this, or you learn the hard way in a couple of years.

 

That said, I totally agree - I love this kind of competition. This is how markets are supposed to work, companies scrambling to build up something so they can sell it to everyone at the best price, always trying to get the leg up on each other. Apple having a fire under its ass is probably a bad thing for Apple but that's great for us.

[iamshack]

Regardless of whether Google ever actually catches Apple in mobile phones - they might, they might not - Google isn't one of those companies you just brush to the side and declare superiority over. If you are running a company like Apple, you either already know this, or you learn the hard way in a couple of years.

 

That said, I totally agree - I love this kind of competition. This is how markets are supposed to work, companies scrambling to build up something so they can sell it to everyone at the best price, always trying to get the leg up on each other. Apple having a fire under its ass is probably a bad thing for Apple but that's great for us.

I agree as well, but I just hate when companies like AT&T and Verizon are throwing away hundreds of millions of dollars on silly advertising when that money could be going to R&D or lower price points on current products. I hate those damn ads because as you said, unless you live in Boofoo, WV, you're getting coverage...and even those people are getting cell service, just not 3G service.

 

As for the networks, I've used Sprint and AT&T in my lifetime, and Sprint was the worst customer service company ever. So when the iPhone came out, I jumped at the chance to get AT&T, and personally, I find their service to be world's better. That being said, I'm not one of these guys always watching videos on YouTube or surfing the web. I mainly text, check email, and place phone calls.

 

The worst trouble I've had with AT&T's network is not getting texts right away, which happened a bit when they first enabled picture messages, at which point you'd have to restart your phone. Nothing for a few months now though.

[bigruss]

FWIW I know someone at work with the unreleased Motorola Shadow (hes one of the 25 non Motorola employees on the trial version), that thing is a complete beast.

 

Huge screen, 720p video recorder, outputs to 1080p, hdmi, the apps created for it now are really cool, fastest phone out htere, except for some samsung phone but thats because the samsung was on 2.2 and the Shadow was on 2.1, once its upgraded the Shadow will be about 10x faster than the fasted phone available.

[southsider2k5]

Wow, if you ever wanted to kill any desire I had to own an Apple product, this is the way to do it. Good work AT&T.

 

Think of it as a tax on the highest earners...

[RockRaines]

FWIW I know someone at work with the unreleased Motorola Shadow (hes one of the 25 non Motorola employees on the trial version), that thing is a complete beast.

 

Huge screen, 720p video recorder, outputs to 1080p, hdmi, the apps created for it now are really cool, fastest phone out htere, except for some samsung phone but thats because the samsung was on 2.2 and the Shadow was on 2.1, once its upgraded the Shadow will be about 10x faster than the fasted phone available.

Jesus. See, now how are companies going to stream HD video on a screen like that? The networks simply cannot handle a ton of devices like this, the volume of data moving around will be ridiculous.

[HuskyCaucasian]

I had a chance to go to BestBuy and play with an iPad the other day. I wasnt really impressed. I wanted to be, but I wasnt.

 

It was a little heavier than I expected it to feel. The more I played with it, the more it felt like a iPod Touch that was run over by a steam roller. Yes it is nicer to read books on and watch movies, but over all it wouldnt be worth the over $500 i'd have to pay for one.

Edited June 4, 2010 by Athomeboy_2000

[iamshack]

I had a chance to go to BestBuy and play with an iPad the other day. I wasnt really impressed. I wanted to be, but I wasnt.

 

It was a little heavier than I expected it to feel. The more I played with it, the more it felt like a iPod Touch that was run over by a steam roller. Yes it is nicer to read books on and watch movies, but over all it wouldnt be worth the over $500 i'd have to pay for one.

I respect your opinion....but I have to tell you, if you enjoy reading, the iBooks alone makes it worth it.

Can't tell you how many hours I have already spent reading and how many books I've read that I wouldn't have ordinarily picked up without it.

Some really cool magazine apps too.

[HuskyCaucasian]

I respect your opinion....but I have to tell you, if you enjoy reading, the iBooks alone makes it worth it.

Can't tell you how many hours I have already spent reading and how many books I've read that I wouldn't have ordinarily picked up without it.

Some really cool magazine apps too.

yea, I've never been much of a book reader really. So, I can see where you're coming from though.

[Y2HH]

For the record, when it comes to 'Google catching up to Apple in mobile phones', this isn't going to happen. Google has ONE mobile phone -- the Nexus 1 -- and it's an industry failure. Android, however, WILL catch up and surpass Apples mobile OSX as the sheer distribution is higher, as anyone in the world can use it, including Dell, HP, ASUS, etc...whereas only ONE manufacturer can use Apples OSX (mobile or otherwise), and that's Apple.

 

Google makes Android (the operating system) and releases it free for anyone to use/tweak how they see fit, hence why many Android phones run different base versions of the OS, and why all of them look different. Each hardware manufacturer can add whatever tweaks on top of the core OS that they want, as Android is just a Linux derivative. This can create (and will create) some incompatibilities, and also makes for a more complicated OS update path. There are no baseline requirements for hardware, what chips can and cannot be used, etc, which will lead to various opinions on Android depending on which model you happened to use. For example those who's first Android experience was a Droid or an Incredible will probably say it's pretty nice, where as G1 users will not. And for you G1 users our there that convinced yourselves that the G1 was/is good...it's not, so stop. This will also lead to confusing releases as there will be many new model Androids that are slower/inferior to preexisting models depending on what chips were used and why, causing the average user to scratch his or her head in confusion. Every successive Apple release has come to be an upgrade in the consumers mind -- both in hardware and software, and this will not apply to every Android release. Dell may use a 1ghz snapdragon while HP may chose a very old ARM chip, for example, and release them at the same time.

 

Google is using the Microsoft business model when it comes to the mobile market, only unlike Microsoft they're looking to advertisement revenue to profit, whereas Microsoft made money by licensing Windows Mobile.

 

Apple isn't necessary competing for this market, as they're more of an all encompassing company with tight hardware and software control to assure the experience to the end user is as they see fit. This will always equate to a smaller market share in the end, however, a much more profitable market share.

 

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

FWIW I know someone at work with the unreleased Motorola Shadow (hes one of the 25 non Motorola employees on the trial version), that thing is a complete beast.

 

Huge screen, 720p video recorder, outputs to 1080p, hdmi, the apps created for it now are really cool, fastest phone out htere, except for some samsung phone but thats because the samsung was on 2.2 and the Shadow was on 2.1, once its upgraded the Shadow will be about 10x faster than the fasted phone available.

ANy idea what carriers it will be on?

[Steve9347]

ANy idea what carriers it will be on?

Verizon, initially.